Jump to content

Manderly's Navy and Heavy Horse


crown of gold

Recommended Posts

Folks,

Research a little event called "Battle of Pskov" and Alexander Nevsky...

Interesting point... But who's who? Stannis' army is the defending faction so it would take the winning side based on history, on the other hand they are more like crusaders than the other guys and the Karstarks sent the Freys a map of the area so they would know about the best way to attack it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting point... But who's who? Stannis' army is the defending faction so it would take the winning side based on history, on the other hand they are more like crusaders than the other guys and the Karstarks sent the Freys a map of the area so they would know about the best way to attack it...

Stannis said there aren't any defenses yet, meaning that he could have his men dig moats connecting the two lakes around the village, turning the village into an island, something that won't be on the map.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, good point, I kinda saw the lake as the defense Stannis would gather his army behind, but that could work. Since the Freys won't be aware Stannis knows they're coming, they could fall right into the trap, especially when lead by Ser Stupid, although it would be exceedingly stupid if they fell for the same trap twice, lol. I lost track of the numbers though. The Freys had 4000 men I think, Stannis has I think +-1500 battle-hardened survivors from the start of his campaigns, 3000-4000 men of the Mountain Tribes, Crowfood's youngsters, those few warriors Maege Mormont brought and originally Karstark's 1000 (?) men, now prisoners. I don't get how Tycho Nestoris 'bought the Ironmen to fight for Stannis' though, really didn't catch on to that. They'll 'betray' Stannis and run for Torrhen's Square at the first opportunity they get, and who can blame them.

I'm positive Stannis can defeat the Freys but he needs a truly crushing victory if he wants to have the remaining strength to then defeat Ramsay and finally attack Winterfell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get how Tycho Nestoris 'bought the Ironmen to fight for Stannis' though, really didn't catch on to that. They'll 'betray' Stannis and run for Torrhen's Square at the first opportunity they get, and who can blame them.

I'm positive Stannis can defeat the Freys but he needs a truly crushing victory if he wants to have the remaining strength to then defeat Ramsay and finally attack Winterfell.

I don't think the itronmen would do that without Asha's command, and she won't go for it.

The Freys didn't bring 4000 men with them, 1000 would be a closer number. Manderly has more, and he is coming behind the Freys I recall. Manderly could see what is happening and push the remaining Frey forces into the frozen lake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, good point, I kinda saw the lake as the defense Stannis would gather his army behind, but that could work. Since the Freys won't be aware Stannis knows they're coming, they could fall right into the trap, especially when lead by Ser Stupid, although it would be exceedingly stupid if they fell for the same trap twice, lol. I lost track of the numbers though. The Freys had 4000 men I think, Stannis has I think +-1500 battle-hardened survivors from the start of his campaigns, 3000-4000 men of the Mountain Tribes, Crowfood's youngsters, those few warriors Maege Mormont brought and originally Karstark's 1000 (?) men, now prisoners. I don't get how Tycho Nestoris 'bought the Ironmen to fight for Stannis' though, really didn't catch on to that. They'll 'betray' Stannis and run for Torrhen's Square at the first opportunity they get, and who can blame them.

I'm positive Stannis can defeat the Freys but he needs a truly crushing victory if he wants to have the remaining strength to then defeat Ramsay and finally attack Winterfell.

Hang on chaps.

Newsflash: Stannis isn't the hero of this story. He isn't going to conquer Winterfell, get all of the North behind him and then launch a lightning strike to take the Iron Throne that supposedly belongs to him.

He is a mere placeholder for the middle of the series, a vehicle to bring Melisandre and the Night's Watch and the Northmen and the South together at Winterfell, so that the true Azor Ahai can make his entrance.

Stannis may win the Battle of Ice, but there is no reason why he should survive it, or end up taking Winterfell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose he's so unimportant that George went through the trouble of bringing the Iron Bank in to give him another shot at victory... lol. We're not discussing whether he's Azor Ahai (something he himself doesn't believe) or is the hero of the story (so far to me he is, but that's a matter of perception), just his odds of winning and giving Ramsay and Roose what they deserve. He'll probably become the Night's King at one point so I see him doing more damage than you might anticipate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting point... But who's who? Stannis' army is the defending faction so it would take the winning side based on history, on the other hand they are more like crusaders than the other guys and the Karstarks sent the Freys a map of the area so they would know about the best way to attack it...

And Alexander Nevsky is a saint and Stannis is 'AA'.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How is it Manderly has this large calvary intact, why weren't they sent south with Rob Stark.

Because Robb ordered Manderley to concentrate on defending White Harbour. He sent 2000 spares but kept most of his force back to do so. Similar to Reed and the Neck, who didn't send any. The south and southeast of the North is the vulnerable part and White Harbour is the most important place together with Winterfell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

where do we think his fleet is at the moment? still hidden a white harbour or sent out to do something.

Half the fleet is hidden up the White Knife.

The other half is in his inner harbor.

One ship is carrying Davos to Skagos. Unless he sent a few extra galleys along to protect the heir to the North on the voyage back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he has hundreds(thousands?) of landed knights/men-at-arms, we can be damn sure he can field thousands of infantry from said landed knights' estates. Plus White Harbour is a city. Cities in the middle ages always kept militias and stores of weapons, as well as trained men, and thus provided lots of infantry and light cavalry to the feudal lords they owed allegiance to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he has hundreds(thousands?) of landed knights/men-at-arms, we can be damn sure he can field thousands of infantry from said landed knights' estates. Plus White Harbour is a city. Cities in the middle ages always kept militias and stores of weapons, as well as trained men, and thus provided lots of infantry and light cavalry to the feudal lords they owed allegiance to.

He has a hundred landed knights. We have been given an example of a landed knight - Kevan Lannister. He says he can raise 300 armed men from his lands. We have another example of a landed knight. That old guy that hid in his holdfast while Gregor's men killed his villagers.

In both cases a landed knight is in charge of a village and a wide area of lands around his holdfast. Kevan Lannister is probably at the upper end of a landed knight's power, with his 300 armed men.

On average, you're probably looking at about 50 armed men that a landed knight can raise. Maybe 100. That gives you 5000 men, just from Manderly's landed knights.

Next he has 12 petty lords sworn to him. A petty lord is probably at the very least in the Kevan Lannister range of men. So let's average them at about 300 men each.

That gives you another 4000 or so men.

That excludes the men from Manderly's own lands, or from White Harbor itself, or from his navy, or all the refugees streaming to White Harbor, or any mercenaries that he might employ.

So altogether he must have well in excess of 10,000 men. And probably around 12,000 - 15,000, I would say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't that a pretty huge number considering Robb had only 18,000 men (which was painfully few considering what he was facing) when he first called all of his banners? Manderly did contribute 1,500 levies to that army which isn't his full strength, but remember those and those killed by the Boltons at Hornwood and Winterfell have already decreased the numbers he originally had. Someone should ask Stannis, he's supposed to know the strengths of all the Houses :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't that a pretty huge number considering Robb had only 18,000 men (which was painfully few considering what he was facing) when he first called all of his banners? Manderly did contribute 1,500 levies to that army which isn't his full strength, but remember those and those killed by the Boltons at Hornwood and Winterfell have already decreased the numbers he originally had. Someone should ask Stannis, he's supposed to know the strengths of all the Houses :)

Well, how many people do you need to support a city of 50,000? Five times that number in the surrounding countryside, supplying it with resources? Ten times?

Manderly's vassal lands must include close to 250 000 to 500,000 people. Meaning there are tens of thousands of adult men under his rule. 12,000 men should be possible for him, if he has the money in his vaults (which he says he has) to support such an army for any length of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

More like 500,000 to 1,000,000 people. A port and a big city. All the Hornwood refugees. The guy is the mightiest Lord in the entire North. And he had close to three years to prepare. Robb had three months, if that.

By the way, Kevan Lannister is no landed knight, he is a household knight. The difference is land of his own compared to getting money from his big brother ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't that a pretty huge number considering Robb had only 18,000 men (which was painfully few considering what he was facing) when he first called all of his banners? Manderly did contribute 1,500 levies to that army which isn't his full strength, but remember those and those killed by the Boltons at Hornwood and Winterfell have already decreased the numbers he originally had. Someone should ask Stannis, he's supposed to know the strengths of all the Houses :)

Your Stannis reference is actually a good one.

You'll note that Stannis's biggest concern was to get Manderly on his side. Manderly is obviously the most powerful lord in the North by some margin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He has a hundred landed knights. We have been given an example of a landed knight - Kevan Lannister. He says he can raise 300 armed men from his lands. We have another example of a landed knight. That old guy that hid in his holdfast while Gregor's men killed his villagers.

In both cases a landed knight is in charge of a village and a wide area of lands around his holdfast. Kevan Lannister is probably at the upper end of a landed knight's power, with his 300 armed men.

On average, you're probably looking at about 50 armed men that a landed knight can raise. Maybe 100. That gives you 5000 men, just from Manderly's landed knights.

Next he has 12 petty lords sworn to him. A petty lord is probably at the very least in the Kevan Lannister range of men. So let's average them at about 300 men each.

That gives you another 4000 or so men.

That excludes the men from Manderly's own lands, or from White Harbor itself, or from his navy, or all the refugees streaming to White Harbor, or any mercenaries that he might employ.

So altogether he must have well in excess of 10,000 men. And probably around 12,000 - 15,000, I would say.

From Manderly's own lands - that's the landed knights. But Manderly has White Harbour. It's a pretty large city, and so 2-3 thousand armed men are not impossible. That, and since he's a powerful lord he likely has a powerful paid retinue of knights and men-at-arms, maybe hundreds. What is certain is that Manderly is more powerful than the Boltons, if we don't count the Boltons' nominal rule over the North.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...