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Manderly's Navy and Heavy Horse


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Stannis will be dead, these toops are for Jon

NO! Stannis must win. Stannis must live. That fucking Mary Sue Jon, who won't die because of some deus ex machina, must not get any throne.

Oh it would be so nice if Jon really died! And yet that will never happen. :(

ETA: About the strength of the Manderlies, I forgot: you must add an unknown number of "yeoman" freeholders living in his lands. These would form a large part of any late medieval English-esque army, and the North is very much like England in various aspects.

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Ok, maybe Stannis won't die...but I bet he does...Jon is a Bad ass warg, I'm not saying he will sit any throne but he wil lead an army (For Rickon?) with manderly forces in tow.

Jon is a boring cliche. I want Stannis, who is a BAMF. For all the bad things he's done, I like him all the better.

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A boring Cliche??? How about the Prince who was Promised!! Talk about boring, rigid ol Stannis who never deviates from his moral compass and damnable beliefs. If he is so set on the legitamacy of the right to rule why doesn't he just go fetch Dany?

Sorry to get off topic, Manderly may help Stannis, but only by way of helping Rickon

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NO! Stannis must win. Stannis must live. That fucking Mary Sue Jon, who won't die because of some deus ex machina, must not get any throne.

Oh it would be so nice if Jon really died! And yet that will never happen. :(

ETA: About the strength of the Manderlies, I forgot: you must add an unknown number of "yeoman" freeholders living in his lands. These would form a large part of any late medieval English-esque army, and the North is very much like England in various aspects.

While I disagree about jon, the yeoman thing is very important. something many people forget or dont know about. It seems lord manderly is the most powerful of the stark bannermen, and his support is extremely impoertant for anyone playing the game of thrones in the north or south.

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A boring Cliche??? How about the Prince who was Promised!!

Cliche and boring - uuh, the choosen one! He's also had a hard childhood, and is really good at everything, and has some code of honor! He's perfect, but humble! We're supposed to like that after hundreds of other fantasy books? Please. That's bullshit.

Talk about boring, rigid ol Stannis who never deviates from his moral compass and damnable beliefs.

Go give the books a read, then. Or is it Jon you're talking about? As for beliefs, the only belief he serves is that he is the king and the realm must bend the knee, and that it is his duty to guard the realm.

If he is so set on the legitamacy of the right to rule why doesn't he just go fetch Dany?

Why, maybe because he has more legitimacy than Dany? Who is Dany - his cousin, part of a defeated and dethroned dynasty. His brother ruled the realm for 15 years, and left no heir. Guess who that makes king by right?

That said, might is right. And Stannis knows that all too well.

Sorry to get off topic, Manderly may help Stannis, but only by way of helping Rickon

He doesn't want to help Rickon. He wants to rule the North for Rickon. And to do that there must be a North left to rule, hence Stannis.

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Cliche and boring - uuh, the choosen one! He's also had a hard childhood, and is really good at everything, and has some code of honor! He's perfect, but humble! We're supposed to like that after hundreds of other fantasy books? Please. That's bullshit.

Go give the books a read, then. Or is it Jon you're talking about? As for beliefs, the only belief he serves is that he is the king and the realm must bend the knee, and that it is his duty to guard the realm.

Why, maybe because he has more legitimacy than Dany? Who is Dany - his cousin, part of a defeated and dethroned dynasty. His brother ruled the realm for 15 years, and left no heir. Guess who that makes king by right?

That said, might is right. And Stannis knows that all too well.

He doesn't want to help Rickon. He wants to rule the North for Rickon. And to do that there must be a North left to rule, hence Stannis.

Yes, let's rather support the guy who murdered his brother with evil blood magic, using some kind of perverted shadow offspring of himself, conceived through committing adultary against his queen with a possibly undead sorceress who likes to burn babies to boost her power.

Yeah, let's do that, shall we...

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Cliche and boring - uuh, the choosen one! He's also had a hard childhood, and is really good at everything, and has some code of honor! He's perfect, but humble! We're supposed to like that after hundreds of other fantasy books? Please. That's bullshit.

Go give the books a read, then. Or is it Jon you're talking about? As for beliefs, the only belief he serves is that he is the king and the realm must bend the knee, and that it is his duty to guard the realm.

Why, maybe because he has more legitimacy than Dany? Who is Dany - his cousin, part of a defeated and dethroned dynasty. His brother ruled the realm for 15 years, and left no heir. Guess who that makes king by right?

That said, might is right. And Stannis knows that all too well.

He doesn't want to help Rickon. He wants to rule the North for Rickon. And to do that there must be a North left to rule, hence Stannis.

Again you prefer the cynical interpretation of things, when the text instead tells us that the Manderlys take their vows to the Starks very seriously, and that it is his liege lord Manderly wants back because he is sworn to him, not because he wants to rule the North by proxy.

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Yes, let's rather support the guy who murdered his brother with evil blood magic, using some kind of perverted shadow offspring of himself, conceived through committing adultary against his queen with a possibly undead sorceress who likes to burn babies to boost her power.

Yeah, let's do that, shall we...

Renly deserved death. He went up against Stannis on his own accord for no reason, knowing he'd have to kill him to solidify his 'claim', played the Game Of Thrones and lost. The use of magic is irrelevant. As Jaime Lannister would have said, 'would you have felt better if I had shoved a sword through him (like Renly would have done to Stannis) instead of used Shadow Magic?' Seriously, people keep bringing this shit up to bring Stannis down with their only argument being 'ooh it's Shadow Magic so it's bad'. Nonsense. Everyone would use magic if they could, in fact they all want the Gods to give them the power... the only difference is R'hlorr actually has power.

You're trying to hold adultery against him while he's fighting the Lannisters? Seriously? LOL.

Melisandre has burned no babies. Not one. So trying to hold that against her is bullshit.

And I do prefer Stannis over the Red Wedding Alliance he's fighting, and always will.

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Again you prefer the cynical interpretation of things, when the text instead tells us that the Manderlys take their vows to the Starks very seriously, and that it is his liege lord Manderly wants back because he is sworn to him, not because he wants to rule the North by proxy.

The text doesn't say that. Manderly does. What else do you expect Manderly to say? No, the key part is that he wants to be lord protector.

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Manderley seems to want revenge above all other things and seems to know he probably won't survive (he's taking a huge risk most of all), I don't really think he has some huge longterm plan to become Protector or anything. If the Boltons are somehow destroyed mostly thanks to him and he survives his ordeal he can have his own private King In The North! Chapter, lol. Manderly got a huge popularity boost from last book I reckon.

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The primary portagonists of this series were all introduced in Book 1.

Jon

Dany

Tyrion.

With Bran and Arya the supporting heroes.

No one who became a point of view character after Book 1 will be among the main protagonists at the end.

Stannis is mid series filler to create the bridge between the protagonists being kids and when they finally come into their full rights.

It is not even clear if Stannis is a protagonist or an antagonist, given his association with the fanatic Mellisandre.

In the TV series they sometimes give things away which are only supposed to be discovered later in the series, and in the Blackwater episode someone says that the powers that Stannis is allying himself with are evil and would bring unmatched darkness and death to Westeros, or something to that effect.

It is not presented as some commoner spreading rumours. In fact, if I recall correctly it was Varys in one of his moments of uncharacteristic honesty while confiding in Tyrion.

This reinforced my belief that Stannis is a tool for the wrong side.

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The primary portagonists of this series were all introduced in Book 1.

Jon

Dany

Tyrion.

With Bran and Arya the supporting heroes.

No one who became a point of view character after Book 1 will be among the main protagonists at the end.

Stannis is mid series filler to create the bridge between the protagonists being kids and when they finally come into their full rights.

It is not even clear if Stannis is a protagonist or an antagonist, given his association with the fanatic Mellisandre.

In the TV series they sometimes give things away which are only supposed to be discovered later in the series, and in the Blackwater episode someone says that the powers that Stannis is allying himself with are evil and would bring unmatched darkness and death to Westeros, or something to that effect.

It is not presented as some commoner spreading rumours. In fact, if I recall correctly it was Varys in one of his moments of uncharacteristic honesty while confiding in Tyrion.

This reinforced my belief that Stannis is a tool for the wrong side.

I agree and that ep was written by GRRM and he is clearly not going to write in something which he will later have to contradict in the books later on.

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The text doesn't say that. Manderly does. What else do you expect Manderly to say? No, the key part is that he wants to be lord protector.

“I know about the promise,” insisted the girl. “Maester Theomore, tell them! A thousand years before the Conquest, a promise was made, and oaths were sworn in the Wolf’s Den before the old gods and the new. When we were sore beset and friendless, hounded from our homes and in peril of our lives, the wolves took us in and nourished us and protected us against our enemies. The city is built upon the land they gave us. In return we swore that we should always be their men. Stark men!”

This is from the mouth of a fifteen year old girl. I personally believe the Manderlies are not only true to their vows but faithful in passing it on to the children.

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This doesn't mean anything. 15 year old girls have a tendency to be overly romantic.

Look, this isn't LotR. Why on earth would Manderly not want to act as a regent?

You seem to have a problem with people keeping the faith, being true to their vows and acting in service of something other than their own interests.

If you want this series to be realistic, which you seem to advocate, then it should be shown that while many people don't act in this way, many people also DO act in this way.

If Martin therefore wants to be as realistic as possible, then everyone should not be portrayed as faithless and self serving as Littlefinger, Jaime Lannister or the Boltons. To balance that out, there should also be people who act in the romantic, ''gives you gooseflesh to read about" way that the 15 year old Manderly girl demonstrated.

An overly cynical presentation of human interactions is as unrealistic as an overly romantic one. The proper balance is most realistic. And that is what the portrayal of the loyal Manderlys would achieve, to contrast the faithless Boltons in the North.

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You seem to have a problem with people keeping the faith, being true to their vows and acting in service of something other than their own interests.

If you want this series to be realistic, which you seem to advocate, then it should be shown that while many people don't act in this way, many people also DO act in this way.

If Martin therefore wants to be as realistic as possible, then everyone should not be portrayed as faithless and self serving as Littlefinger, Jaime Lannister or the Boltons. To balance that out, there should also be people who act in the romantic, ''gives you gooseflesh to read about" way that the 15 year old Manderly girl demonstrated.

An overly cynical presentation of human interactions is as unrealistic as an overly romantic one. The proper balance is most realistic. And that is what the portrayal of the loyal Manderlys would achieve, to contrast the faithless Boltons in the North.

Whenever someone acts contrary to their own interests in ASOIAF, they fail (obviously). Keeping true to wovs and shit is not nearly realistic. Most people in Manderly's place would surely say stuff like that, and even sincerely believe it, but would only act on it if they had something to gain. The same is obviously true for Manderly.

If I were him, I'd use faithfulness as a cover, but my real objective would be securing Rickon (which invariably means disposing of other Starks who might threated my regency), and making him into a puppet.

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