(BOOK SPOILERS) Jon the captive?

[Nuttz]

Now, it's been a while since I've read CoK so my memory may be a little hazy, but here goes:

Does the (implied) imprisonment of Jon contradict the book-wildings? If I remember correctly, the wildings never capture members of the Night's Watch. They either kill them, or let them turn their cloaks. There could also be some trouble further down the road if, as some poeple have suggested, Qhorin and co are also captured, as obviously they aren't ones to turn their cloaks. This may just be something I made up though.

Regardless, I'm worried about Jon's later CoK stuff. I loved Qhorin's final command to Jon, it seemed to go against all of his vows, but with them at the same time. Furthermore, I absolutely adored the final chapter (or two) with the rangers trying to flee, but knowing that they were doomed. There was something strangely poignant about their numbers slowly dropping, each man staying behind to face his death, all the while Qhorin knowing they would never escape.

This could still happen. My guess is that the wildings have already captured Qhoring and the others (or will soon). They will all escape and then the wildings will give chase. It will have the same effect somewhat, but if what I said earlier is true then it may contradict some of the wilding's principles. I'm also anxious we won't get to see Jon warging into Ghost this season, as it's kind of important for Ghost to discover the wilding army. I wouldn't be surprised if it's cut though, both for budget reasons and because they haven't set up Jon being a warg yet.

One more thing, show more Ghost! I understand the budget constraints with CGI, but it's not like they're putting in dragons or anything. They're filming wolves and increasing their size. They probably wouldn't even need to outsource it, any film editor could create that effect given enough time. Regardless of that, you would think they could cut some of the other stuff out in order to flesh out one of the most important relationships in the series. The way they're going it's not going to mean anything when Jon has to leave Ghost before climbing the wall.

[victim]

In my opinion, it will unfold in one of two ways:

1) Qhorin will save Jon from the Lord of Bones in the nick of time, the small band of Night's Watch men start a march back to the Fist of the First Men, slowly leaving characters to die. Qhorin gives his command to Jon as he already knows if he's captured they'll take his head anyway - so it may as well be Jon who kills him and infiltrates the Wildlings.

2) Qhorin and Co. are already captives of the Lord of Bones, and Jon is told to turn his cloak as the only means of survival. This wouldn't make all that much sense though, given that Ygritte already told Qhorin he wouldn't be taken captive if he was caught.

Obviously, the first option works much better, the desperate march would be so good on screen, especially if they're being followed by the eagle which we've already heard a few times in the background (was Jon being captured a coincidence? I think not). The only reason I see them taking option two is due to budget and/or time restrictions.

[Arkash]

From next week's preview: we see Qhorin and Jon in the hand of the Wildlings, that was such a relief to catch this quick image!

[victim]

I can't believe I missed that! It looks like they take Qhorin prisoner as well then. I'm pretty sure we'll get Qhorin's command still because in the description of episode 10 it says "Jon proves himself to Qhorin." I also watched an interview with Kit where he says his favourite part of the season was his fight with Qhorin.

[Hear Us Roar]

Qhorin will command him to kill him while they are prisoner to prove himself. Or they escape and are cornered and the he kills him

[Envie]

2) Qhorin and Co. are already captives of the Lord of Bones, and Jon is told to turn his cloak as the only means of survival. This wouldn't make all that much sense though, given that Ygritte already told Qhorin he wouldn't be taken captive if he was caught.

This is the option I think they're going to go with as its easier to film and still keeps the stage set for Qhorin to order John to kill him as part of the plot like it was in the books.

Maybe Qhorin will already be injured and they're about to kill him when Jon, newly captured, arrives on the scene. They throw them together in chains while they decide what to do with them (or maybe Mance Rayder arrives on the scene at this point) - and that's when Qhorin gives Jon his final order because he knows he's going to die anyways and sees this as the only way for Jon to survive and get info to take back to the Night's Watch. Just like in the book.

[Eddard Sand]

From next week's preview: we see Qhorin and Jon in the hand of the Wildlings, that was such a relief to catch this quick image!

Yes! The show keeps me on my toes but has not failed me yet. I'm loving it like a fat kid loves cake.

[sarah.jenice]

We have three episodes left in the season so t

he way I see it going is the Halfhand frees Jon in Episode 8 but the all/some of the other guys are killed, Jon and the Halfhand try to flee but are slowly hunted down, someone freaking figures out Jon is a warg because they actually include Ghost in an episode and show he has the same link to his wolf as Bran, in the season finale they are finally caught again, the Halfhand says, "Is your sword sharp Jon Snow," and commands Jon to change sides, Jon kills Halfhand and joins the Wildlings with a sad look on his face, ending Jon's Season 2 story ark.

[irishtemper]

The show sucks...don't get me wrong like 80-85% of the stuff and characters in the show are perfect and just how I imagined them, and then there's like 10% of stuff they added or changed that is actually good and understandable, and then the 5% of material that doesn't not really save much time or money and just makes zero fucking sense to change from the books because it would have been at least 20 times better than what they wrote. Case in point, Jon & Ygrittes stroll through the mountains. Not only are they changing scenes for the worse, they are changing characters.........do not even get me started on what would have happened if Cat freed the Kingslayer before word was received of Bran and Rickon's death, <insert Gob "COME ON!" here>

[Wouter]

From next week's preview: we see Qhorin and Jon in the hand of the Wildlings, that was such a relief to catch this quick image!

Are we sure that man of the Watch is Qhorin? He was shown for all of a split second and I didn't quite recognise Qhorin, even frame-freezing it. Could it be one of the other rangers captured, with Jon possibly escaping afterwards (could be the scene with Jon rolling down the hill in the snow)?

It could be Qhorin, but then didn't Ygritte basically say Qhorin would be killed quickly or tortured to death if they caught him? Doesn't seem like Jon would have an opportunity to fight him in ep10 then (at most he could execute him, maybe, which carries less weight than actually killing him in battle). And it would seem fairly difficult for Jon to have a confidential conversation with Qhorin under those circumstances, so how would he give the orders?

And yet, in ep 10 "Jon proves himself to Qhorin" so there must be something to make it so...

[Tourniquet]

The books have a metric fuck tonne of inner dialogue...there is no way that the show can replicate that. They have to give more screen time to certain characters in order to get the proper amount of exposition but try not to make it feel rote.

I think they are doing a good job.

[Eddard Sand]

The show sucks...don't get me wrong like 80-85% of the stuff and characters in the show are perfect and just how I imagined them, and then there's like 10% of stuff they added or changed that is actually good and understandable, and then the 5% of material that doesn't not really save much time or money and just makes zero fucking sense to change from the books because it would have been at least 20 times better than what they wrote. Case in point, Jon & Ygrittes stroll through the mountains. Not only are they changing scenes for the worse, they are changing characters.........do not even get me started on what would have happened if Cat freed the Kingslayer before word was received of Bran and Rickon's death,

Nope.

[House Balstroko]

Will have to see how this all plays out, but I must say Jon's capture was probably my least favorite moment of the episode. I think if he kills Qhorin will being a captive it destroys the turncloak nature from the book. This would mean that he kills Qhorin for the sake of potential survival (something like a gladiator match), rather than killing him as a free man to show his betrayal of the Night's Watch to the wildlings. The end result will probably be the same, but I think the impact is lost.

But aside from this, I don't have any other major gripes with the show.

[Fengari]

The show sucks...don't get me wrong like 80-85% of the stuff and characters in the show are perfect and just how I imagined them, and then there's like 10% of stuff they added or changed that is actually good and understandable, and then the 5% of material that doesn't not really save much time or money and just makes zero fucking sense to change from the books because it would have been at least 20 times better than what they wrote. Case in point, Jon & Ygrittes stroll through the mountains. Not only are they changing scenes for the worse, they are changing characters.........do not even get me started on what would have happened if Cat freed the Kingslayer before word was received of Bran and Rickon's death,

I can't understand how you can say the show sucks if you think 85% is perfect and another 10% is good... And then you argument that with an example of how it could have been wrong, but wasn't?

Will have to see how this all plays out, but I must say Jon's capture was probably my least favorite moment of the episode. I think if he kills Qhorin will being a captive it destroys the turncloak nature from the book. This would mean that he kills Qhorin for the sake of potential survival (something like a gladiator match), rather than killing him as a free man to show his betrayal of the Night's Watch to the wildlings. The end result will probably be the same, but I think the impact is lost. But aside from this, I don't have any other major gripes with the show.

In the books, killing Qhorin is also for the sake of survival. Yes, the circumstances are different, but the important part is that Qhorin orders him to survive and yield, whatever it takes, so he can continue the mission. From the episode descriptions, it seems like that order will still come. Until Qhorin is killed and we see if that order was given, I will not say they ruined this part.

I did enjoy Ygritte harrowing Jon, and his awkwardness in their scenes this episode.