[Book Spoilers] where is the chain?

[Ser Giant]

(In reply to Rhaegar The Chef)

That's exactly what was said^^

They were alotted 2.5x the budget for "Blackwater", it will be epic.

[wolverine]

One of my biggest problems with the series is that Tyrion is not ugly, not even a little bit. I think they will also remove his hideous scarring. I think it is an important part of Tyrion's character that he is a dwart, but it is also very important that he is a particularly hideous ungainly dwarf.

[boojam]

Have they hoarded the majority of the budget for the season for Episode 9?

I read somewhere about the budget for the show being about 6 million dollars per episode, but I was never positive if they could save this and splurge on one episode..or if this is consistent throughout the season.

Either way, I really hope we get the chain and the truly epic battle everyone is hoping for!

There is nearly an extra 1 million for the show this year, I am guessing it probably worked out to 1mil.

And they hired an 'action director' to shoot it, so I suspect they probably spent more than 7 mil. on Blackwater, I just guessing , that it will be quite unlike anything seen for a sword and spear battle on TV. (More like the work done on Band of Brother and Pacific on HBO).

What puzzles me , last year CGI was done extensively on fixing architecture.

Wondering where the CGI budget is going this year, Direwolves, sort of infrequent, Drangons (don't blink or you will miss them)... some vista scenes....some of the tricks in Qarth could have been done 50 years ago!

Man they must be loaded for bear in the VFX department for E9 and E10! Maybe E8 ... can't tell.

[shadow of death]

I realize the show is different from the books but the chain was a brilliant military idea that Tyrion has. Probably the best idea in the whole series. I will be pretty disapointed if it is left out. I also predict that Tyrion will not lose his nose but may receive a nice scar on his cheek or something like that.

Praying for the chain and some battle scenes of the battle. The hound crushing a few guys would be nice too.

[StarkBlack21]

I wouldn't be surprised if the Blackwater episode cost anywhere between 12-18 million ( which is a shitload for one episode). Remember they went back to HBO for extra money. HBO is NOT a cheap NETWORK, they truly value quality.

[So1ar]

On the show so far we haven't had a clear measure for the passing of time or for distances travelled, so the forging of the chain could be done very quickly on the show but still be ready in time. The problem is that Tyrion mentioned Stannis' fleet passing Tarth on its way north. I don' t remember how long it would take them to reach King's Landing, but now that a timeframe is mentioned it has to be taken into account for the chain-forging. I don't know the first thing about making chains, so I cannot wager how long it would take to forge hundreds of links, to put it in place etc.

So maybe there isn't enough time for the whole chain being made. However, it would be possible that Tyrion by way of reading about tactics and the defenses of King's Landing learns of an old defense mechanism, a chain, which has been in disuse for ages and is rusty and everything. But it would not be necessary to forge the whole chain but repair an old one.

Tyrion said Stannis' fleet will arrive in KL in about 4 or 5 days. Not enough time to even organize a meeting to build the chain.

[Lexicdark]

I have been wondering all season what Tyrion's face was going to look like after the battle (not that I think we would see it this season anyway), and how they were going to do that from here on out. It will be very sad if they don't scar his face. There are so many great lines that Tyrion has about the disfigurment later in the books too!

[sennahoj]

It might be possible that they use the chain as a surprise for the non-readers. They will be just as surprised as Stannis and everyone else. And Tyrion can banter about his brilliant idea with Bronn.

You wouldn't have to show a meeting with the blacksmiths beforehand, you could just have Tyrion getting a message from the blacksmith that "the device" is in place. Cersei asks: "What was that all about?" Tyrion: "You'll see, sweet sister."

Or something to that effect. I know I am grabbing for straws here, but I really really want the chain, and with GRRM as writer of the battle, I am still hopeful that they'll find a way to include it.

[SerMixalot]

I doubt they will have the chain, it would have been quite easy to establish it earlier, basically saying Tyrion is going to get Joffrey a chain for his name day or some such thing. They have avoided it.

I dont think the action in the Battle of Blackwater is essential to the plot (like the battle of Green River) and will be nice but unnecessary eye candy better spent to character development.

[Ser Giant]

(reply to sennahoj)

No, that makes complete sense. If the chain is in the show I bet that is exactly how it will go down. Well said, btw.

[Mulled Wino]

I this episode Tyrion said Stannis' fleet would be at KL in 5 days or so... I don't think that would be enough time to forge such a huge chain, but it would be a pity if they didn't include it, it's basically the main reason they won that battle! Or maybe they're just going to make wildfire even wilder than in the books, burning down the fleet in like 10 seconds, but that would suck.

4 days with the wind. They have to have deleted the chain, unless there's an industrial oil rig supply store around or something.

[ledlevee]

The chain is a major part of Tyrion's character arc. Without it, Tyrion is not the same character as he was in the books, unless of course GRRM finds another way to show Tyrion is responsible for the Lannisters winning the battle. Basically, Tyrion won the battle for them, and then they turned around and stabbed him in the back. Without the chain or something else major to show Tyrion was responsible for the victory at Blackwater, his character arc falls apart. I'd be majorly disappointed if they don't show Tyrion's importance to the Lannisters winning the battle.

[SerMixalot]

eliminating the chain is actually a BIG change in the story, not directly but indirectly.

The chain was Tyrion's brainchild demonstrating he was the true savior of KL.

The TV series just has Tyrion stealing Cersei's idea on the wildfire.

Changing Tyrion from the brains that saved the City (and unthanked BTW) to just another dude, stealing ideas, well just typical.

[SerMixalot]

wow ledlevee great minds apparently think alike!

[Mulled Wino]

It might be possible that they use the chain as a surprise for the non-readers. They will be just as surprised as Stannis and everyone else. And Tyrion can banter about his brilliant idea with Bronn.

You wouldn't have to show a meeting with the blacksmiths beforehand, you could just have Tyrion getting a message from the blacksmith that "the device" is in place. Cersei asks: "What was that all about?" Tyrion: "You'll see, sweet sister."

Or something to that effect. I know I am grabbing for straws here, but I really really want the chain, and with GRRM as writer of the battle, I am still hopeful that they'll find a way to include it.

please nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ferrum Aeternum]

The chain seems too epic and iconic to just leave out altogether.

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I think the chain still makes it in. The prevailing assumption is that because there's been no scene with Tyrion and the smiths, that the chain can't possibly be employed in the battle (as Stannis's fleet is close by). How do we know Tyrion hasn't already ordered work on the chain prior to now? I think this could be something the showrunners are holding in their back pocket to be a surprise for the viewers and readers. The explanation could come about in any number of ways, i.e. Tyrion could say something like "I've had smiths working round the clock on a surprise for Lord Stannis." Not the way I'd have handled it, but it could work.

ETA - yeah, what Sennahoj said. :cheers: (that'll teach me to read every post!)

[Independent George]

eliminating the chain is actually a BIG change in the story, not directly but indirectly.

The chain was Tyrion's brainchild demonstrating he was the true savior of KL.

The TV series just has Tyrion stealing Cersei's idea on the wildfire.

Changing Tyrion from the brains that saved the City (and unthanked BTW) to just another dude, stealing ideas, well just typical.

Especially because the Tyrell alliance is now Littlefinger's idea, too.

I'll withhold judgement until after the episode airs, but I'm nervous about the implications for Tyrion.

[Dagmer Cleftballs]

Hey all, long time, first time, and so forth....

How about this: The chain is already there as an existing defense mechanism. Tyrion's having the chain forged is not the truly brilliant part; rather, it is his idea to use the chain to trap the fleet INSIDE the harbor so the wildfire can do its work. As Stannis' fleet approaches, Joffrey (would rather say Cersei, but everything on tv is Joffrey's idea so whatever) orders the chain raised to slow their attack, but Tyrion refuses the order. Joffrey brands Tyrion a traitor for this (still upset about the post-riot scene) and orders Ser Meryn to kill his uncle. By the time he gets to him, the wildfire/chain combo has decimated the fleet, but Meryn still tries to kill him, Pod saves the day, Tywin and the Tyrell host rout Stannis' remaining troops and receive all of the credit. Basically everything in the book storyline is set right by this change, but the chain sequence is a little less telegraphed. Thoughts?

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Hey all, long time, first time, and so forth....

How about this: The chain is already there as an existing defense mechanism. Tyrion's having the chain forged is not the truly brilliant part; rather, it is his idea to use the chain to trap the fleet INSIDE the harbor so the wildfire can do its work. As Stannis' fleet approaches, Joffrey (would rather say Cersei, but everything on tv is Joffrey's idea so whatever) orders the chain raised to slow their attack, but Tyrion refuses the order. Joffrey brands Tyrion a traitor for this (still upset about the post-riot scene) and orders Ser Meryn to kill his uncle. By the time he gets to him, the wildfire/chain combo has decimated the fleet, but Meryn still tries to kill him, Pod saves the day, Tywin and the Tyrell host rout Stannis' remaining troops and receive all of the credit. Basically everything in the book storyline is set right by this change, but the chain sequence is a little less telegraphed. Thoughts?

That's not bad at all, especially since we never found out for sure if it was Cersei who gave Ser Mandon the order to kill Tyrion (or did we?).

Also, welcome. :)

[turdle]

Hey all, long time, first time, and so forth....

How about this: The chain is already there as an existing defense mechanism. Tyrion's having the chain forged is not the truly brilliant part; rather, it is his idea to use the chain to trap the fleet INSIDE the harbor so the wildfire can do its work. As Stannis' fleet approaches, Joffrey (would rather say Cersei, but everything on tv is Joffrey's idea so whatever) orders the chain raised to slow their attack, but Tyrion refuses the order. Joffrey brands Tyrion a traitor for this (still upset about the post-riot scene) and orders Ser Meryn to kill his uncle. By the time he gets to him, the wildfire/chain combo has decimated the fleet, but Meryn still tries to kill him, Pod saves the day, Tywin and the Tyrell host rout Stannis' remaining troops and receive all of the credit. Basically everything in the book storyline is set right by this change, but the chain sequence is a little less telegraphed. Thoughts?

that would be better than nothing, but if the chain already exists, you'd think that would have come up in tyrion and cerceis conversation about stannis. instead of cercei simply saying "we'll rain fire down on them" or what ever, she might have said, "we'll hold them at bay with the chain."