Lord Damian Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Thinking about whether Jon is really dead or not lead me to this thought. If Jon is dead, they will most likely burn him so as to ensure he does not turn into a white walker. The question is, what would happen at the pyre? Does anyone think he would be resurrected? What would happen if Mel got involved? What would happen if she did not? i do not subscribe to the theories that they would just put his body in the freezing meat cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 I suppose this was a dumb question. Ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsblood8 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Being that we've already seen one fake funeral pyre / burning at the wall. I'm not sure a second one would be a great plot device... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lpearce7 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I doubt there will be a pyre for Jon. I just can't believe that he is dead. I know he took a few knives, and the one in the back seemed really bad, but I think Melisandre will save his life in the end. She knows how important he is, and I just don't think his death would improve anything. I mean Ned's death sent his son to war and set everything in the last 4 books into motion(besides Dany). I'm not saying that every character that dies has to have a huge finale, but Jon is way too big to die without meaning. Although, if GRRM wanted the Wall to fall(to the Others, Wildlings or corrupt Brothers), Jon's death would be the quickest way for that to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Bolton 1990 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Actually I don't think this would be a bad idea if Melisadre has to steal his body and the fire brings him back it would be a lot better than the way Beric Dondarrion and Catelyn Stark were resurrected and probably prove he is a Targeryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted May 26, 2012 Author Share Posted May 26, 2012 Well, this is GRRM we are talking about, we should be ready to view the books as though Jon is dead just in the event we have to. So, they know the white walkers exist, burning the dead is the thing to do up there, so yeah, it would be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseHB Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 One sentence of words during Jon's stabbing that had my attention were Jon noticed his wounds were smoking. Isn't azor ahai supposed to be reborn through smoke, one of his brothers sigil's was a star another part of the AA prophecy. Also, Bowen Marsh was crying tears of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nothatso Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Well, this is GRRM we are talking about, we should be ready to view the books as though Jon is dead just in the event we have to. So, they know the white walkers exist, burning the dead is the thing to do up there, so yeah, it would be interesting.I think another possibility that shouldn't be ruled out is that those loyal to Jon may try to take his body to Winterfell. We certainly know that there is some significance with the crypts from both Bran and Jon's own dreams, and yet no Stark seems to be in a particularly good position to explore them at the moment. Even with Ramsay there, he wouldn't risk trying to butcher the body of the son of Eddard Stark with all of his bannermen there, and the wildlings could use the returning of the body as a guise while attempting to rescue Mance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrosir Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Anytime I think "is Jon really dead?", I always revert to that interview GRRM did when someone asked him about Jon's death. He laughed and said "So, you think he's dead?"Jon is not dead. At least yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athanasius Pernath Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Anytime I think "is Jon really dead?", I always revert to that interview GRRM did when someone asked him about Jon's death. He laughed and said "So, you think he's dead?"you mean there's someone that really believe Jon is definetely dead? lol XDi'm new in this forum, so i don't know what to expect from people, but that would be a really senseless theory. and not only because it's implicit in ADWD that he isn't. it would be senseless also without Varamyr's and Melisandre's chapters :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Wun Wun Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 I believe that Jon will have a funeral pyre and that it will burn out of control, killing lots of people. This will factor into him being brought back, because death pays for life and all that. Why will the fire rage like that? I don't know what magic will be used exactly, but I think Bloodraven/Bran and/or Mel will be involved with it. Remember, Mel sees Jon surrounded by skulls and she thinks they are symbolic of death, but I think this is one instance in which the visions are literal. The burned skulls of those who die from the fire will be all around Jon when he wakes up.I also think that Shireen, sadly, will be one of the people who dies from the fire. She dreamed of a dragon eating her. Jon is the dragon, and she will be consumed or "eaten" by the fire that revives him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turgid furgison Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 A pyre or a proper burial would have to wait until winter ends and people can find the dry ground or kindling. And I don't see the nights watch putting in all that work for someone they killed. Also the realms leaders may wonder why his body was incinerated so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turgid furgison Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 Jon could only be buried in winter fell if Robb made him a legit stark. People that die south of the wall don't become white walkers, the wall blocks the others powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 A pyre or a proper burial would have to wait until winter ends and people can find the dry ground or kindling. And I don't see the nights watch putting in all that work for someone they killed. Also the realms leaders may wonder why his body was incinerated so quickly. no one would be able to find kindling? the nights watch doesn't plan on lighting a fire all winter? Im sorry but i don't think thats valid.you mean there's someone that really believe Jon is definetely dead? lol XDi'm new in this forum, so i don't know what to expect from people, but that would be a really senseless theory. and not only because it's implicit in ADWD that he isn't. it would be senseless also without Varamyr's and Melisandre's chapters :)Where do you find it implicit? I believe he is alive i even believe that he could have simply been shown a vision by mel and never have gotten stabbed at all, or that because of the smoking wounds that he will be reborn as aa but i dont think its implicit. The line that he never felt the third or fourth daggers would seem to indicate death or at least unconsciousness. I agree that varamyrs chapter shows us that jon cannot no matter what be all the way dead because he is clearly a warg. melisandre's chapters have provided clues that jon will be aa but she also clearly could have other plot points such as fighting the others or simply leading stannis down a dark path. I would love to see jon brought back to life as aa at the wall, but i also love the above post about bringing him to winterfell. many great options i dont think we should discount any. except that jon will either come back or not be dead, I agree with you completely there, all i meant in the beginning was that i don't think its stated directly, which is the definition of implicitly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 A pyre or a proper burial would have to wait until winter ends and people can find the dry ground or kindling. And I don't see the nights watch putting in all that work for someone they killed. Also the realms leaders may wonder why his body was incinerated so quickly.Uh, it's winter and people need fire to keep warm so obviously finding kindling isn't a problem, so is it a problem to find dry ground. Melisandre has her fires going. Perhaps they'd have to wait for the current snowstorm to pass. It's not really all that much work to throw a body on a fire. Also, why would the realm's leaders wonder anything about his body? Cersei wouldn't care, Euron wouldn't care, the Tyrells wouldn't care, Doran wouldn't care, Ramsay wouldn't care.....perhaps the only person who would care would be Stannis and he's buried under snow right now. I think he'd understand if the body was no longer available to be viewed considering he believes the story of reanimated corpses. Jon could only be buried in winter fell if Robb made him a legit stark.Robb certainly hasn't been buried in Winterfell, nor have any arrangements been made to send his bones to Winterfell. And who at the wall knows anything about Robb's alleged will? The only people who knew about it are either hostages at the Twins, dead, or sitting in the Neck. Maybe Alysanne knows, but she isn't at the wall. The fact is Jon was a brother of the Night's Watch and his vows can't easily be undone by Robb making him a legitimate Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athanasius Pernath Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 no one would be able to find kindling? the nights watch doesn't plan on lighting a fire all winter? Im sorry but i don't think thats valid.Where do you find it implicit? [...] many great options i dont think we should discount any. except that jon will either come back or not be dead, I agree with you completely there, all i meant in the beginning was that i don't think its stated directly, which is the definition of implicitly.uhm..i'm an italian dude, so maybe i chose the wrong word. in italian 'implicito' means "something that is not expressed clearly, but it is implied and can be easily derived from the text". that's what i meant. :)re-reading the book, we know that from the first chapter (Varamyr prologue) Martin starts say to us "Jon will not stay dead". and i'm very surprised to read in other forums that someon thinks "i believe Jon is really dead and will stay dead", even only as a possibility, 'cause it is not even a possibility ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Stark Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 We must also remember that Jon burnt his hand in the first book, whilst he may have dragon blood he is not immune to fire and so the idea of 'yeah let him go on a pyre but not burn to show he is a targaryen' is follyMel will have to involve herself someway, if only to make sure his body is frozen, 'A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice'. This shows that whilst the wall is weakened (as it has a chink in it) Jon is still there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon-Wolf Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Targs are not immune to fire, Im new here but have been lurking for months and this is something that has been discussed loads.Martin has said that Danys not burning on the pyre was a one off magical thing, this could be a form of foreshadowing for Mr Snow's possible ressurection as AA.IDK?, Love reading some of you guys interesting theories though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromisedPrince Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Jon could only be buried in winter fell if Robb made him a legit stark. People that die south of the wall don't become white walkers, the wall blocks the others powers. robb did make jon a "legit stark" , remember in the tent with catelyn he signed the parchment and made all his bannermen witnesses and sent the bear womans daughter with it to howland reed.although nobody knows about that so i doubt they would burry him at winterfell. i dont think it will go as far as a burial either he is just badly injured or he will die and be resurected quickly somehow.JON CANT DIE. he is not dead most of the plot is based around him. R+L=Jon is true and the whole "a song of ice and fire" name is not a coincidence. GRRM introduced the hints surrounding this secret from the first book so i doubt he would kill off such a important character just because afew people have figured it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benxz88 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 If R+L=J, then Jon would have king's blood. If his body is burned, then Melisandre would have the sacrifice she wants. Would this wake a dragon like she says it will? Assuming Jon is dead of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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