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What would happen at a funeral pyre at the Wall if ?


Lord Damian

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If R+L=J, then Jon would have king's blood. If his body is burned, then Melisandre would have the sacrifice she wants. Would this wake a dragon like she says it will? Assuming Jon is dead of course.

If R+L=J then it could be taken literally that Jon is the Dragon, and that the sacrafice of kings blood was what was needed in order to re awaken as AA.

Not sure if this is where Mr Martin is going with it but maybe the penny had finally dropped for Mel (Only seeing Jon in the flames when asking to see AA) and she orchestrated the assasination of Jon to chuck him on the pyre.

So then we have, Kings Blood, Fire. To say that salt would be from the tears of the conspirators seems kind of lame. Any alterantive salt suggestions guys and girls? just for kicks.

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so heres my prediction.

its pretty farfetched but i think brienne and jamie will meet with lady stoneheart and jaimie will be imprisoned. whilst jamies imprisoned and awaiting death lady stoneheart will get news that stannis has arya , jaimie will hear this from brienne and decide to tell lady stoneheart that he will keep his oath to her to help return her daughters to her and brienne will swear his honesty.

he will then either lead the brotherhood north or command his lanisters to follow him north to get lady stoneheart arya. they will run into stannis dead and will continue north to the wall to find jon snow dead and melisandre there trying to revive him and keeping his body in the salt

below

the wall, the wildlings would explain that he was a warg and that he was still alive inside ghost.

thoros the red priest will then say that they will need to burn ghost in order for him to give his body "the kiss of life" and bring his body back to life as he did with lady stoneheart (or lady stoneheart will see he is better able to protect her family because she is practically a walking corpse and decide to give him her "fire") melisandre will then burn ghost and before he is dead brienne will feel sorry for ghost and give it a quick death with oathkeeper.

thoros will then revive jon snow or lady stoneheart will, then whilst a part of jon dies inside ghost in the fire and smoke jon will be reborn into his body in the salt. oathkeeper will then turn into the flaming sword because of the sacrifice made of ghost such as Azor Ahai did to his wife. jon will

claim

the sword and melisandre will see the prophecy fullfilled.

the queensmen being religous and devoted to their red god will also believe he is azor ahai and stannis was a misinterpretation once melisandre tells them. they will swear their swords to jon and jon will get rid of the black brothers who tried to assasinate him.

the wights and white walkers will then attack and bring down the wall somehow, many will die and the rest will flee south with jon snow leading them.

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It's open up for debate, but I think his body would burn beautifully.

I must confess I'm not very fond of the idea of a second "Fire miracle". We're not even sure if he's dead yet. It would be great if he was cured by purely mundane means. Should something special happen, I would go for "Ice miracle" of some kind. (Which, I suspect, we will sort of get - "cold preserves" and all that jazz.) He doesn't even die to go through it. Dany didn't have to die to be 'reborn'.

Saying that, there is a passage in aGoT which makes me think that what you propose is certainly possible:

Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and the bloody bath, dark against the sandsilk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames.

It's from Dany's chapter. The one before the birth of Rhaego.

I hope it's not the case though, because it could very well mean that Jon's resurrection won't happen till a Dream of Spring. I can't imagine Dany will be in Westeros sooner than by the middle of the Winds, and even that is way too positive thinking. Let's not even talk about when (if) she gets to pay a visit to the North.

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I hope it's not the case though, because it could very well mean that Jon's resurrection won't happen till a Dream of Spring. I can't imagine Dany will be in Westeros sooner than by the middle of the Winds, and even that is way too positive thinking. Let's not even talk about when (if) she gets to pay a visit to the North.

yeah i agree, but why do you think dany would have to be there for jon to be revived/reborn?

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yeah i agree, but why do you think dany would have to be there for jon to be revived/reborn?

Well, Dany will light three fires. I guess they will all very important for Dany (and by that for the story). This would be one very important fire from the storytelling perspective if it should bring to life one of the main characters. We also have the vision from the House of Undying with a blue which fills the air with sweetness. The blue rose is almost certainly Jon. Dany's third fire will be "for love". (I'm not ashamed that I'm not bothered by Jon/Dany in the least.)

I've done the math, and came up with the discovery that Dany will accidentally resurrect Jon.

I would rather not. This storyline would be too . . . sappy, imho.

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Well, Dany will light three fires. I guess they will all very important for Dany (and by that for the story). This would be one very important fire from the storytelling perspective if it should bring to life one of the main characters. We also have the vision from the House of Undying with a blue which fills the air with sweetness. The blue rose is almost certainly Jon. Dany's third fire will be "for love". (I'm not ashamed that I'm not bothered by Jon/Dany in the least.)

I've done the math, and came up with the discovery that Dany will accidentally resurrect Jon.

I would rather not. This storyline would be too . . . sappy, imho.

oh yeah i totally forgot about the whole three fires thats a good point. maybe jon snow is just really badly wounded then and remains so whilst warging into ghost the whole time, maybe he only dies when she gets there because then how could she light the fire for "love" of jon if she doesnt even know him (that is if he dies before she gets there)

yeah lol i agree it would be abit "sappy" but i think GRRM will give in to giving the readers a happy ending after what hes put them through

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i also think dany will definately go straight to the wall when she comes to westeros because of the whole ".. to go west you must go east, to go south you must go north.." being to get to westeros she had to go further east to slavers bay mereen etc and to go south to kings landing and the iron throne she must go to wall first.

i also just came across the prophecy dany was told at the house of the undying aswell "...three fires must you light...one for life and one for death and one to love..."

Notice that it says "and one to love" and not for love. so i think you might be right about her lighting the fire to bring back jon snow.

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i also think dany will definately go straight to the wall when she comes to westeros because of the whole ".. to go west you must go east, to go south you must go north.." being to get to westeros she had to go further east to slavers bay mereen etc and to go south to kings landing and the iron throne she must go to wall first.

i also just came across the prophecy dany was told at the house of the undying aswell "...three fires must you light...one for life and one for death and one to love..."

Notice that it says "and one to love" and not for love. so i think you might be right about her lighting the fire to bring back jon snow.

It might be true that she'd go to wall because of that whole thing, but I don't think consciously. I think she'll go to the wall to help people. It fits her character better IMO.

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  • 9 months later...

i agree.. she didnt really plan on going further east and that happened

Maybe she'll encounter some of the wildlings taken from Hardhome by the slavers and hear about the others and whats going on in the north form them. Then, like Stannis, she realizes the responsibility of ruling the kingdom includes protecting it from danger and heads North.

I just thought of this and it may be crackpot but maybe this is where the conflict between Dany and Aegon will arise. She won't like it if he refuses to bring his armies north to aid her.

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Jon has to be realeased from his oath to the nights watch and the perfect way to do that is to have him die. I do think it will be a natural revival of some sort

the knife wounds will heal bc jons body burned them closed stopping the bleeding , his heart will stop long enough for everyone to declare him dead but it will be someone like sam that will get his heart beating again. Jon being resurrected on a funeral pyre wouldnt be the worst thing to happen imo.

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Well I believe that he is probably dead for a time I think it would be interesting to have a warged jon chapter in there. maybe him viewing his own funeral. If anything else he was still the Lord Commander and would be given one. We might actually get a similar instance as Dany's pyre in that the queensmen have Jon's assassins burned with him as punishment and his resurrection occurs then. But with the way the books go it's also just as likely the others pop up and massacre everyone.

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"Only life can pay for life". - Mirri Maaz Durr, and a common theme in many fantasy novels. (And not a few actual religions.)

If Jon is dead, then someone else must die in his place for him to come back right. (instead of coming back wrong, as Beric Dondarrion and Catelyn "Lady Stoneheart" Stark did.)

Mellisandre has been giving others to the flames, as has Stannis: Dany gave Mirri Maaz Durr to the flames, to survive the pyre herself and hatch the dragons: the whole Azor Ahai story is based on a hero who sacrificed the OTHER person he loved most, to a flaming sword: and I can't help the feeling that they're all barking up completely the wrong tree.

Someone is going to have to voluntarily put *themselves* - the only person they truly have a right to sacrifice - in the fire.

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i also think dany will definately go straight to the wall when she comes to westeros because of the whole ".. to go west you must go east, to go south you must go north.." being to get to westeros she had to go further east to slavers bay mereen etc and to go south to kings landing and the iron throne she must go to wall first.

It's the opposite though:

"To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow." —Qaithe

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I think Mel will realize the Jon is AAR and not Stannis, then burn Shireen (because she needs king's blood and will do anything for AAR) in Jon's funeral pyre. Death pays for life, and Jon is back! But he will porbably need to get outta there because he already got stabbed by people at the Wall, doesn't exactly sound like a smart place to stay.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Should Jon be dead and resurrected then I don't think it will be done by fire magic alone. He's at the wall, a place of (ice) magic and if he's burned a la Mel's magic fires it will mix with ice magic and something different than what happens with fire magic alone might come from it.

I'm not at all positive or sure of what will happen to Jon. I just keep getting this feeling that with the extremes of fire magic (Dany's Dragons and the red god/priests) and ice magic (the others, the wall, and possibly the old gods) that there will be a show of both types of magic in a mix. I have no clue what the result would be, though.

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GRRM might play the scene similarly to Dany's in book 1. After all of the ashes, he'll be left unharmed.

Who will be Jon's "MMD" though? "Only death can pay for life." I believe GRRM also stated that was only a one time event (maybe to avoid more speculations that Targs are fireproof?)

Jon has to be realeased from his oath to the nights watch and the perfect way to do that is to have him die. I do think it will be a natural revival of some sort

the knife wounds will heal bc jons body burned them closed stopping the bleeding , his heart will stop long enough for everyone to declare him dead but it will be someone like sam that will get his heart beating again. Jon being resurrected on a funeral pyre wouldnt be the worst thing to happen imo.

I guess GRRM was getting a lot of questions about loopholes from the NW's vow. There was one question I read that Jon was a minor when he said the words so maybe it can be used to released him? But he replied, "No loopholes. Once you said the words, you're in." Another question asked was if there were "exceptions" from the past? He said, "Yes, there have been a few other cases, but they have been very rare. Such vows are taken very seriously."

With those examples, if Jon survived his stabbing, he will definitely stay at the Wall. If he want to be released from his vows, it won't be easy. If he gets resurrected by somebody, then, he's alive...so his watch is not yet ended.

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