[book spoilers] Did they botch Bran and Rickon's death?

[victim]

The acorn thing is weird, but not much weirder than what Reek uses in the books - in a pouch or something, my memory is failing me. Basically, all Dagmer and Theon are doing is pretending they've found something really important and then sending Maester Lewin away so he believes they've found and will kill the boys.

[Marjie Eilie Myatt]

I believed it in the books; for me it was my first ASOIAF fake-out, and as someone else mentioned, I wasn't scrutinizing the writing at that time but instead was reading quickly for the "what happened." (Later, during the RW, I re-read several times to see how the victims were possibly getting out of this one).

What I don't understand from the episode (and I can only watch it this year in clips on YouTube), is why Theon himself seems so shocked or sickened by the corpses. Was he not part of that whole staged presentation for the folk of the castle? He looks like he's seeing them for the first time. I don't get it. (And that presentation was corny.)

If Maester Luwin comes off as a little bit fake, I think it's okay because wasn't he faking in the book? Didn't he know the bodies weren't right, even though Reek had dressed them in Stark cloaks and whatnot? He's gotta sell it.

[Alboin]

If the boys and direwolves would part ways: direwolves would trick Theon's hunt to that river and Bran and others would stay in the crypt,(as it is in the book) it all would make perfect sense... I don't know, maybe direwolves CGI is too expensive, but they are on screen either way. How this walnut thing is better then what was happening in the book is beyond me.

[Jayaris]

I have read a heard a lot of non readers who were immediately aware of the fact that the hanging bodies were definitely not Bran and Rickon. I have to agree that it did not have the impact I expected.

It was too obvious. The corpses looked superfake and they were trying too hard to make us think they found Bran and Rickon (walnuts wtf? Do all walnuts in westeros end up in Rickon's hands?") Also, some people thought the end music was awesome... I thought it fell totally flat. Very anticlimactic. It surprises me that this doesn't annoy more people. Am I crazy?

I thought the bodies looked pretty fake, but after watching the Twitter recap on Winteriscoming it seemed like a considerable amount of people were fooled.

[Michaelj]

The real shock is he murdered two little boys, how u not see that?

[int11]

The acorn thing is weird, but not much weirder than what Reek uses in the books - in a pouch or something, my memory is failing me.

There is no way he could have known that those nutshells were Bran's and Rickon's. It's way too coincidental that the random trash he finds in a village belonged to Rickon. The wolf brooch in the book, however, could be used to convince people that the boys had been found, and also to pretend that they've found something really important (a clue).

[SerMixalot]

I have been critical of the adaption to date, however I buy the interpretation presented. the link may be weak but it is internally consistent (rickon seen eating walnuts earlier) and enough to drive the story along hitting all the major points. Perhaps it could have been done better, but I still think it delivers what is needed.

It will be weird if B&R go back to the crypt though, cause that would be far more dangerous in the TV series trying to sneak back in once the chase is over.

[Lord of Cheese]

It was ruined when they had Bran make the comment that if Theon followed them to the farm then he would torture the farmers two children. It's obvious that the two kids were the farmers kids.

In the books it's made frightening because Jojen dreamed of reek, the man with the long knife and the two faceless (? iirc...) children at his feet. Jojen got it right with the capture of Winterfell so we were primed to think it would come true, but not HOW it would come true.

No Jojen, no dream, no reek, flat story telling = fail. Fail fail fail. Season 2 blows.

[SerMixalot]

I'm rereading ACoK and will have to pay more attention to the greendreams and such. I remember not being surprised that B&R being alive the 1st time through, but admittedly there was alot of confusion in my head over characters at the time.

I guess compared to some the deviations to the script, Dany, Jamie, Jon, theon's story arc seems close by comparison

[Tourniquet]

I was sure it was them in the books, probably cause I'm dumb and too trusting in the "unreliable narrator" device...but the show makes it clear it is them and my non-reader g/f thought it was them.

[Blangadanger]

I thought the bodies looked realistically burnt, but the fact that he burnt them beyond recognition probably gives away that they're not the Starks. Also for non-readers watching the show, we've been given every reason to believe that the direwolves will interfere at any moment of danger. They've already saved Bran, Arya, Jon, and Robb so far on screen, so for huge characters such as the Starks to just die off-screen without any interference from the direwolves would be questionable.

That being said, I don't know how much better they could've pulled it off as it's pretty hard to fake deaths of major characters, especially in a show that shows everything so graphically otherwise. I liked Theon's reaction a lot, because I think it was a mixture of both acting for his plan to work and shock that his life has come to this. He is truly tormented now, and I can't wait to see Asha/Yara tear him down even more when she arrives.

I thought the music was wonderfully dark, if not for the supposed deaths of the Stark boys, then for the terrible path that Theon has gone down in this season.

[Khal-a-bunga]

I don't think the intent of the scene was to have the audience truly believe that Bran and Rickon were dead, but rather to show just how far gone Theon is at this point. They couldn't have given any more clues to tell the audience that it wasn't Bran & Rickon, so it surprises me that some non-readers really believe that it might be them. The thing I took away from the scene was that he may not have found the Stark boys, but he killed two innocent children nonetheless.

I've had a good amount of experience in an E.R. from my time in nursing school, and although I've never seen a fully charred human body, those props used during that scene were actually quite realistic.

And about the walnuts; Dagmer picking them up and calling for Theon felt to me like a fake-out for both Maester Luwin and the audience - he was just trying to make it look like he'd found a clue. Either way, it's no less believable than what Reek does in the books, so it doesn't really bother me.

The theme for Theon continues to impress me, as does Alfie Allen's portrayal of him. His has been probably my favorite storyline of this second season, and I'm excited to see where and how D&D decide to end his arc.

[Ser Giant]

I don't think the intent of the scene was to have the audience truly believe that Bran and Rickon were dead, but rather to show just how far gone Theon is at this point. They couldn't have given any more clues to tell the audience that it wasn't Bran & Rickon, so it surprises me that some non-readers really believe that it might be them. The thing I took away from the scene was that he may not have found the Stark boys, but he killed two innocent children nonetheless. I've had a good amount of experience in an E.R. from my time in nursing school, and although I've never seen a fully charred human body, those props used during that scene were actually quite realistic. And about the walnuts; Dagmer picking them up and calling for Theon felt to me like a fake-out for both Maester Luwin and the audience - he was just trying to make it look like he'd found a clue. Either way, it's no less believable than what Reek does in the books, so it doesn't really bother me. The theme for Theon continues to impress me, as does Alfie Allen's portrayal of him. His has been probably my favorite storyline of this second season, and I'm excited to see where and how D&D decide to end his arc.

Unless the characters in Theon's group on the show watched this specific epsiode of Game of Thrones on HBO they wouldnt have known about Rickon eating walnuts. Are walnuts the only food escaped little kids eat in the north or are these special walnuts that only Hodor can crack?

It's some cheesetastic writing they did to "trick" the audience into thinking Brand and Co. actually ended up going where they just said they werent going. It was completely absurd.

[CuddleMeLoki]

It was ruined when they had Bran make the comment that if Theon followed them to the farm then he would torture the farmers two children. It's obvious that the two kids were the farmers kids. In the books it's made frightening because Jojen dreamed of reek, the man with the long knife and the two faceless (? iirc...) children at his feet. Jojen got it right with the capture of Winterfell so we were primed to think it would come true, but not HOW it would come true. No Jojen, no dream, no reek, flat story telling = fail. Fail fail fail. Season 2 blows.

Dont even remember that dream and i hate Jojen.

[HouseLancaster]

They botched it, seeing Bran and Rickon at the farm and then followed by Theon and crew - too many clues. They should left that story line after the 'its all just a game' scene, then return to the story at the end, slowly building up the tension at Winter that Theon has done some thing awful. Also having the bodies burnt so bad, made it too obvious - it increases the 'off-screen death' factor which TV audiances know rarely ever turn out to be the case. we needed to see facial features - you'd never be able to tell the difference anyway but it stops it looking like a cover up. Shame really, a cool turn of events burnt.

[Catastrophe]

I don't think it was botched, since I never thought Bran and Rickon had really been killed in the books either.

[Hoo]

If the intent was to fool the viewers into believing Theon burnt them, yes it was a failure.

If the intent was to show how Theon likes to scare townfolk, then it was a success.

[teemo]

At first I thought they did, because everyone on the board was saying how obvious it was that they were still alive. But none of my friends got that. I have a friend who is devastated that the little kids are dead, and I didn't correct him. Maybe I just have dumb friends. I thought the last scene was pretty powerful. I liked that ending...Theon's face and the dramatic music faded to black...sweet!

[kephv]

They did. I think they should've given Bran another green dream, seeing as how his first one came true, which would've added a bit more to the credibility of it.

[turdle]

Unless the characters in Theon's group on the show watched this specific epsiode of Game of Thrones on HBO they wouldnt have known about Rickon eating walnuts. Are walnuts the only food escaped little kids eat in the north or are these special walnuts that only Hodor can crack? It's some cheesetastic writing they did to "trick" the audience into thinking Brand and Co. actually ended up going where they just said they werent going. It was completely absurd.

yeah, i missed the part in the show where they said only starks eat walnuts. i think the reason they went this way was because the farm house in the book just pops into theons memory with no real set up. and in the show they can't simply jump into theons inner monologue, but the walnuts don't make any sense when you think about them. best not to.