libmanj Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I think regardless of how Jon "reappears," he's not going to be the same as he was before.Well, John wasn't Azon Ahai before he got stabbed, right? That would qualify as a significant change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC_Accidental Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 GRRM, when he kills someone, kills them. If it is a cliff hanger, the person lives. Bran twice, Brienne, Daenerys I think, Tyrion, These were all mortal danger cliffhangers, either book end or chapter end, and they all survived. Meanwhile people who get killed. Areo Hotah, Eddard, Robb, Drogo, Viserys, etc he goes into detail. you aren't left with any doubt. Then even with people like Catelyn, she also didn't get the same detail as her son.Syrio Forel would like a word with you. Through a ouija board. GRRM has heavily hinted that Syrio is dead, yet his fate was left on a cliffhanger. Granted he wasn't a POV character and I personally don't think Jon is dead but I still don't think this theory is so set in stone that we should rely on it without doubt.As for the beyond the wall land of always winter perspective I think it should be painfully obvious that Bran will be the one to give us this. Otherwise what else is he going to do? His place as Mr all seeing tree man has to have some major purpose. The previous greenseer was pretty much put in place to oversee everything and do all he could to prevent an attack by the Others, if I remember correctly. We also have a slight problem with what on earth happens to Meera, Jojen, Hodor and Summer. Jojen we all suspect won't last the night if not already dead but I think the rest will take a trip up north, aided by Bran warging into them and various other birds and bees. Most likely he will warg into Summer. I think the Benjen scenario is the only other likely scenario, though it would be a shame to have him die so soon after finally getting to hear about him. I think it's most likely he will at some point along the way join Hodor's adventure north. Of which they should make a spin off series with Hodor being the only POV character.Hodor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 GRRM has heavily hinted that Syrio is dead, yet his fate was left on a cliffhanger. Granted he wasn't a POV character and I personally don't think Jon is dead but I still don't think this theory is so set in stone that we should rely on it without doubt.I guess it's a matter of interpretation, but I don't think his fate was left on a "cliffhanger". The scene was meant to convey that he was in an inescapable situation and bravely sacrifices himself to save a child. We don't get the death blow, because our POV is already running like hell. Now, we've admittedly had so many people escape death in these books. But I do not view it as a loose end, per se. If we do not see him again, that was simply his fitting ending and his story remains resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledlevee Posted May 22, 2012 Author Share Posted May 22, 2012 In all of those other cases of deaths, there was another POV viewing the death other than the character dying, so they could see all the grizzly details. In the case of Syrio Forel, we didn't see him die because as someone said, Arya was running away. Jon's death reminds me most of Cat's. The second she loses consciousness, her POV ends, just like Jon's. In her case, she got her throat slit, so it was pretty clear she was dead. In Jon's case, I guess it could go either way, depending on if you think someone could survive getting stabbed four times in the chest by skilled warriors. It's possible, but if you're comparing Jon's scene to other death scenes, the one it most closely resembles is Cat's, and yes she was dead, at least for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calibandar Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I think he'll warg into Ghost so that his "mind" survives the death of his body. Melisandre will then insist on burning Jon's body as a sacrifice to the Red God, which will then bring him back to life, as Azor Ahai. I don't think it will be the same as Catelyn and Dondarian's resurrections.I like this theory. It explains how he is Azor Ahai Reborn.I am leaning more and more to a definitive death of Jon's body, the more ADWD lies in the past. It simply doesn't make enough sense for this to happen and then have Jon just recover from it. It somehow has to have massive impact, in his role as Azor Ahai, in stepping away from his position as Lord Commander, in bringing the forces gathered at the Wall to such disarray that the Others can actuually benefit from it. He either dies physically and then wargs into Ghost, to be returned to his body after it has been burned in sacrifice, or he returns to it when Melisandre has healed it in some other fashion, perhaps before he actually died. Clearly she is tied directly to Jon, and in the story sort of functions as his right hand, she is the Priestess to the real Hero. Martin has her stay at the Wall even when Stannis, her cause for coming there, has left that place. So authorial intent is pretty clear there. Her role would be pretty much played out if Jon really died, she'd just be stuck there at the Wall, awaiting the cold.Either the body is burned and reborn, or he is lain beneath the ice cells and revived by Melisandre, in a way that changes his body ( hence feeling "encased in black armour"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houseHB Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I think we might get a new POV in WOW, even though Martin has said he does not want to introduce new POV's. We finally might see what Benjen has been up to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet Summer Child Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I definitely don't see Jon as being dead. His "death" reminds me of Theon jumping off of the walls of winterfell, or tyrion on the blackwater. My guess is that he will awake safe and sound after a battle between queensmen, sworn brothers, wildlings, direwolf, giant etc.I like that Benjen theory though... I don't think we're done with him or syrio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puck the Goat Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 My guess is Jon dies, only to turn. He goes North. The Red Priestess resurrects him... and we get the Prince that was Promised. A Stark was the Night's King after all.Otherwise, he gets resurrected by the Priestess, then takes the fight North as the Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
escargotini Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I think it's most likely he will at some point along the way join Hodor's adventure north. Of which they should make a spin off series with Hodor being the only POV character.Hodor.A Song of Hodor and Hodor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledlevee Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 A Hodor point of view chapter could go something like this:Hodor hodor hodor. Hodor? Hodor! HODOR! Hodor hodor hodor etc. (on for like 15 pages)It would be a piece of experimental fantasy fiction, sort of like the Finnegan's Wake of Fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Regarding Jon's stabbing scene and the cold he felt - that should be a solid clue. When Melisandre warned him,she mentioned the cold as well,as to which he replies -it is always cold on the Wall- Mel: You think so? Jon:I know so Mel:Then you know nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magjee Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 i'd imagine that if any POV happens in the land of always winter, it will be bran's.Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Stark Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I think its most likely that we'll see the land of always winter in prologues and epilogues, or at least that will be the first time we see it, then they could use benjen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domelition Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I honestly think the Children of the Forest are connected in some way to the Others, so mayber Bran will get the spotlight. He's aliready pretty far north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therustman Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 Bran, Benjen (prolouge? still at least resolution) and Jon are the obvious 3.I dont think Jon is dead - thinking coma and he is moved to the ice cell which slows the damage and he can be healed in some way. Meanwhile he wargs into ghost, finds out Bran is alive somehow and learns more about the Others - whatever that may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmaster Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 A Hodor point of view chapter could go something like this:Hodor hodor hodor. Hodor? Hodor! HODOR! Hodor hodor hodor etc. (on for like 15 pages)It would be a piece of experimental fantasy fiction, sort of like the Finnegan's Wake of Fantasy.No. Hodor's internal monologue is that of a genious, wordsmith poet.It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 I can see Benjen being an "infiltrated" wight similar to when Jon infiltrated the wildlings. If Benjen were still alive, he'd have shown up at the Wall already. We'll either read about him being a wight or Jon will find something of his to confirm his death...but then again, if he's dead he's a wight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnar_of_Queens Posted June 5, 2012 Share Posted June 5, 2012 This is my first post so hello all.Now onto the topic at hand, the likely hood of jon going that far north seems rather unlikely at this part of the story. This is almost without a doubt the job for a certain boy already north of the wall.Now a lot of you seem to believe he isn't dead an that melisandra will play a major role in that, but how? We'll jon has his dream where he is atop the wall in black armor. What if it isn't truly armor but just the side effect of the spell ala victarion and his arm?now that gives the idea a little more plausability IMO. I'd also like to tac on the fact that AA had to temper his blade in the heart of his wife to finish the creation of light bringer. Not to stray even more from the original topic, but i honestly believe that IF jon is truly going to be AA and wield Lightbringer he is going to somehoq end up plunging longclaw into mel somehow.What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Benjen's fate with be discovered and it is possible he will be the pov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDolorousEdd Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I was thinking we might see it in a prologue i am not sure who by though maybe one of the knights watch ships if blown very far off course..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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