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Why would Bran save Theon?


Hoopdescoop

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I believe the Weirwood will start talking when Stannis kills Theon at the tree. It's King's Blood indeed. Why do Weirwood's have mouths anyway? We know why they have eyes. If the Weirwood then says 'Brandon Stark and Rickon Stark are alive and shit and here is some more info', everybody will be like wtf this is crazy. I mean, how can you not believe everythign a talking tree says? Maybe that's why the old ppl did sacrifices, to hear the advice of the 'old gods'(green seers).

Aside from that, how could Bran save him if he wanted to? I see no way. Even if Theon tells them the truth about the boys, nobody will believe him because it'll be seen as a self-serving lie to escape death. Theon will die at the tree or in the fire. There'd have to happen a whole lot of stuff to prevent this.

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I believe the Weirwood will start talking when Stannis kills Theon at the tree.

I agree. i think that Bran is simply trying to get Stannis to come before a weirwood so that he can talk to him about... something important... and that Bran has come to the conclusion that there's only two ways the Stannis would come before a Weirwood: to burn it (which would probably be detrimental to Bran's plans to "talk" with Stannis) or to have him make a sacrifice/execution before it. And maybe Bran has learned from Bloodrave/Jojen/the Children that he needs a blood sacrifice in order to "talk" to people.

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I agree. i think that Bran is simply trying to get Stannis to come before a weirwood so that he can talk to him about... something important... and that Bran has come to the conclusion that there's only two ways the Stannis would come before a Weirwood: to burn it (which would probably be detrimental to Bran's plans to "talk" with Stannis) or to have him make a sacrifice/execution before it. And maybe Bran has learned from Bloodrave/Jojen/the Children that he needs a blood sacrifice in order to "talk" to people.
Could any of you imagine such a conversation, how it would go, UH, hi, Stannis, I am Bran Stark, How is it going?
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That's the one problem with my theory... but regardless of how it would go, if a tree started talking to you, and you saw that those around you also heard the thing talking, wouldn't you take notice?

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That's the one problem with my theory... but regardless of how it would go, if a tree started talking to you, and you saw that those around you also heard the thing talking, wouldn't you take notice?

Yeah, I would. I am wondering if Stannis at some point, might start taking a belief in the old Gods and rejecting Mel, especially after the Renly shadow. I wonder if he has remorse he is keeping down. Time will tell but not likely
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Is bran, at this point, the sweet forgiving little boy, or a Demi-god who may ave eaten Joren paste, night watch deserter flesh (one of the other white meats), A gs warg being trained by Bloodraven (a character rather steeped in realpolitic), who is now set on a greater mission than saving Theon? I think the key is what does Bran gain from Theon's blood? Does he get all his memories, and any particular insights that you think are particularly germane? Does he get "kings blood"? What would that do for him?

On the other hand, what would he get from Theon living but by a weirwood? Perhaps he can encourage Theon to tell Stannis about Ricon and him still being alive? I suppose this, followed by a beheading, is possible too.

I agree with the bran or BR controlling the ravens, but Ashara too? She seems rather strong mentally, and she is the one who suggests their weirwood.

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Yeah, I would. I am wondering if Stannis at some point, might start taking a belief in the old Gods and rejecting Mel, especially after the Renly shadow. I wonder if he has remorse he is keeping down. Time will tell but not likely

This ties in with my theory about Stannis taking a turn for the Ice. If you want to read it, check my signature. I believe something major will happen when Stannis sacrifices Theon to the tree. If the tree starts talking (which seems most likely to me), I doubt anyone will question the power of the Old Gods anymore. The tree doesn't even have to state that he's actually Bran. If Bran says something, anything at all, they will do what it says. Nobody can ignore a fucking talking tree and cast it away for superstition anymore at that point.

Again, even if Bran somehow encourages Theon to tell the truth, why would ANYONE believe Theon?

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Reading all the answers to this thread I've thought of many options.

I'm not really sure if Bran wants Theon alive or dead, or maybe he just wants Stannis and Theon in front of a weirwood to say things. No matter what reason takes them in front of the Weirwood.

In case Bran wants Theon alive.

1 - Ccould be because Bran wants Theon to be Theon again (stop being Reek) so he tells the truth 'bout 'Arya' (Jeyne Poole), Rickon, Bran and Ramsay.

2 - But another option is, 3EC has told Bran something like 'Killing Theon will not give you back your friends and people of Winterfell, and Theon is more useful alive than dead'. And saving Theon with his greenseeing might be the final test for Bran to become the greenseer he always wanted and needed to be, so he can do whatever he has to do.

3 - Maybe he wants to offer Theon the chance to serve in the Night's Watch. That's an option given to many men, maybe he has to go to the Wall and do something useful up there. In the wall he could be the 'king's blood' Mel needs to reborn Jon so he becoms Azor Ahai, or to whatever she wants king's blood.

And in case Bran wants Theon dead (that's not what I think, but may be possible).

4 - The weirwood talking when Theon dies would be an option, opposite to the 2nd thing I said, but with the same purpose 'Kill Theon and your training will be completed'. But I'm not really sure if that would be a good one, It's like 'going to the dark side of the force' in Star Wars. I mean, it's something bad or 'evil' to become powerful, and that doesn't seem to be kind of Bran's behaviour.

And I can't think why would Bran want Theon dead but revenge.

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This ties in with my theory about Stannis taking a turn for the Ice. If you want to read it, check my signature. I believe something major will happen when Stannis sacrifices Theon to the tree. If the tree starts talking (which seems most likely to me), I doubt anyone will question the power of the Old Gods anymore. The tree doesn't even have to state that he's actually Bran. If Bran says something, anything at all, they will do what it says. Nobody can ignore a fucking talking tree and cast it away for superstition anymore at that point.

:agree:

But I think that the weirwood will Speak to Stannis before the sacrifice actually happens. Then Theon can be somewhat redeemed because the North will know that at least he did not kill Bran and Rickon.

Also, I can't wait to read the conversation between Stannis and Mel when he tells her he's gone Old school. :read:

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I suppose my opinion was sparked by a post in the Theon thread of WoW.

1) I think Bran does hate Theon. He wants Theon to know that he knows what he did and that he's still alive.

We're hinging everything on faith here, so I suppose I should pipe in to disagree with this, and suggest that Bran is only ten/eleven? years old and has never truly hated anyone in his life. He does not know how to play the game, nor has he any education in political maneuvering. Perhaps because he is a warg and greenseer, he might feel greater empathy; but for whatever reason he does seem to feel a strong connection with other beings and people.

When Theon first consulted the weirwoods he thought he recognised Bran's face in the godswood (Dances with dragons), and believes the tree speaks his name. This is repeated by the one raven in the sample chapter who chants his name "Theon" as if to remind him of his own identity. But the real empathy seems to take place here:

A thin film of ice covered the surface of the pool beneath the weir-wood. Theon sank to his knees beside it. “Please,” he murmured through his broken teeth, “I never meant …” The words caught in his throat. “Save me,” he finally managed. “Give me …” What? Strength? Courage? Mercy? Snow fell around him, pale and silent, keeping its own counsel. The only sound was a faint soft sobbing. Jeyne, he thought. It is her, sobbing in her bridal bed. Who else could it be? Gods do not weep. Or do they?

The sound was too painful to endure. Theon grabbed hold of a branch and pulled himself back to his feet, knocked the snow off his legs, and limped back toward the lights. There are ghosts in Winterfell, he thought, and I am one of them.

Theon seems to be evolving into a sort of wise-fool archetype, and I have to wonder if one day Theon will become Bran's voice. The insanity that speaks the truth. ;)

Not a tool, mind you. That word seems overly cynical for Bran.

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Let me spell it out for you:

Only death can pay for life.

and

It takes a King's blood to raise a Dragon.

1. Much was made about Theon being the rightful King of the Iron Isles, if only in name, as his physical state makes it impossible for him to ever rule those ruffians, who only respect strength.

2. Theon is so far gone in terms of suffering and mutilation, that he needs to be put out of his misery.

3. There is great urgency on Bran's side to resurrect a Dragon, because Jon has just been murdered.

So, Bran needs Theon to be sacrificed in front of a Hear Tree, because then the power of his King's Blood is absorbed into the weirwood network. Bran can then access it and use it to resurrect Jon in front of another Heart Tree at the Wall.

Thus, Theon's death will pay for life, and Theon's King's Blood will raise the Dragon (Rhaegar's son).

It will be a mercy as well, as Theon craves an end to his suffering, and finally, it will be redemptive, because like Gollum, Theon will - through his death - save the world by making it possible for the savior of humanity to be raised from the dead.

It all makes perfect sense. And the timing is perfect as well, as Jon has just been killed, just as Theon is about to be sacrificed.

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At this point I think it would be an act of mercy to give Theon a fast, clean death, while he still remembers his name.

He lost his good look, he lost his hunting ability along with his fingers, he (probably) lost his manhood, pretty much all that defined him. But he remembers his name ... better die as Theon than live as Reek, I'd say.

And I like the idea of Bran performing some grand act of magic using Theon's blood !

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I do wonder what Bran's (BR's?) plan is, however, two things are fairly certain: on the pragmatic side, the alternative fate for Theon is being sacrificed to R'hllor (sp?), a foreign god who's a threat to Bran (followers burning weirwoods) Since it's established that gods and sacrifices do tend to actually have effects, whatever happens in the weirwood grove is bound to serve Bran's interests better than THAT. And on the compassionate side, it's likely to be better for Theon than being burned alive.

Of course, I'm sure there's more to it - he might actually need Theon's blood for something. Or he might indeed want to save him - but I think forgiveness and warm fuzzy feelings are the least likely motivations in this case. It seems plausible that can communicate with him better than anyone else and wants him around for that reason. Or he's aware of some great destiny that Theon has to fulfill. Or something entirely else. Or it's all just a ploy to get Stannis to the weirwood, although that would seem a bit contrieved.

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Because Theon has endured so much suffering and (even given opportunity) never took his own life as an end to his suffering, I suspect that it is beyond Theon's character to crave suicide....

Since this is all speculation anyway, I won't argue that strongly for this point; but a broken person who has learned through experience and has the will to stubbornly not die tends look like a fool to other characters,hopefully a fool with hidden wisdom. I suspect we'll see the end to Theon eventually, but I hope he marks some kind of purpose before he dies... that would be the sweetest revenge.

Free Northman, I completely understand the argument, but I don't think the story will be quite so perfect or symmetrical.

On the other hand, it would be terribly convenient if Theon could read Bran's signs and help spell an end to this mounting disaster. Don't get me wrong - I strongly dislike Theon as a character, but if he above all others can understand the weirwoods, then he might just be useful in the ultimate resolution of the game (so to speak).

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I can think of four possibilities:

1. Bran has future plans for Theon.

2. Bran knows that Theon has returned to the Light side by rescuing Jeyne Poole.

3. Bran owes Theon a save because Theon saved Bran and Robb from the Wildings.

4. Bran may also know that Theon maty have saved him and Rickon at Winterfell as well. I think Theon knew they were hiding in the crypts and gave them deeper cover by killing the miller's boys. Part of that was to save face, but it also kept his men from looking further for Bran and Rickon. Not that I approve of his methodology.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Bran would kill Theon on site I think. Otherwise I'd have no respect for him.

I guess you are about to lose respect for Bran pretty soon after the release of TWoW. No way Bran would kill Theon. Bran is a nice guy, he'll help Theon back to redemption. Theon's crime was being an arrogant douche, being lead by a lust for power and overriding determination to prove himself to his father and family. Reek manipulated him and goaded him into his worst acts. He's paid the price. Obviously that's no good for the miller's kids or in the TV Show, Ser Rodrik, but he certainly a character worth redeeming.

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I can't see Bran wanting revenge on Theon, it's quite against his nature imo. I didn't think of needing his king's blood which could be a possibility. I don't believe that saving Jeyne has redeemed Theon quite yet but it's a start.

I agree about his nature. He's a sweet and tender-hearted boy. He even tried to stop the beheading he saw in his dream. I think the KIng's blood would be important to black magic followers/Rhllor followers but I don't feel the Old Gods/Bran/Bloodraven would want any such sacrifices. At least I hope they aren't that archaic.

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