Why would Bran save Theon?

[nothatso]

I agree about his nature. He's a sweet and tender-hearted boy. He even tried to stop the beheading he saw in his dream. I think the KIng's blood would be important to black magic followers/Rhllor followers but I don't feel the Old Gods/Bran/Bloodraven would want any such sacrifices. At least I hope they aren't that archaic.

Bran sees a scene in which an old woman is sacrificing somebody before a weirwood tree when he plugs himself into the weir-wood-web, iirc

[kha_alim]

There are lots of reasons why Bran would want to save Theons life.

In order of importance:

1. Bran knows Theon. Bran personally knows Theon. Theon is the only person left alive south of the wall, that Bran actually knows.
   
2. Theon once saved Bran's life.
   
3. Bran knows Theon didn't burn Winterfell, that is was the Boltons, the same ones that are in Winterfell right now.
   
4. Bran is locked up. He is still the Lord of Winterfell, or he should be, but he's way too far away. The only way he could influence things is through others.While Theon might not be the best choice as a representative, It would give him some extra options, like the fact that Theon's life is in Bran's hands, etc. - in other words Bran could make use of Theon.
   
5. Theon helped Bran when he betrayed Rob. Jojeen said that in his dreams he saw a chained wolf with wings. He came to Winterfell to break those chains yet he could not do it. It was eventually Theon that broke Brans chains, and force him to make his way north to meet with BR.
   
6. Theon is now broken. In the first book we have Tyrion having a weakness for cripples, bastards, and broken things. Tyrion who is a Lanister, the brother of the man, who tried to kill him, and now enemies of the Starks helped Bran when he needed it. So just like that Bran might also have a soft spot for cripples, bastards, and broken things, which Theon obviously is.
   
7. Bran is on his way to become a greensear. When the entire realm is threatened by the others there is no place for vengeance. Every able body is needed. And Theon has proven himself: he took Winterfell.
   
8. Bran knows about Stannis. (or should). He knows that Stannis helped defend the wall. That he marches on Winterfell to liberate it. And he knows their condition: they are desperate, low on supplies and with little hope that's slowly fading away day by day as they are stuck in the middle of nowhere, just 3 days from Winterfell. Theon already took Winterfell once, with a handful of men, in less then a day, maybe he could do it again, and send supplies back to Stannis.
   
9. He wants to kill Theon himself. He is the Lord of Winterfell, it is His duty to kill the turncloack. He who passes the sentence should swing the sword.
   

Reasons why Bran would have Theon executed:

1. Theon betrayed Rob. He turned his cloak. He took up arms against the north.
   
2. He killed 2 innocent kids, and their family.
   
3. Because of his actions, everyone else Bran knew eventually died. Even if it was not by Theons hands, it was as a result of his actions, thus he is partially responsible for it.
   
4. Blood magic. Sacrifice. I saw some theories to this, yet I find them hard to believe. Even so, here it is on the list.
   

Reasons why Bran would simply not care weather or not Theon lives:

1. Bran is changing. Maybe in more ways than one. Lots of open possibilities here.
   
2. Winter is coming. (The others are coming.)
   

All in all, Bran has more reasons to keep Theon alive than to kill him. And I didn't even mention that he's kind and wouldn't hurt anyone. That it's in his character to want to save him. Also I didn't list the possibility of him being able to see the future, mainly because it goes both ways - for and against saving Theon - they cancel each other out.

[Not_a_Lady_Brienne]

Because Bran heard Theon's prayer to the heart tree, and knows how much he's suffered and changed.

[evita mgfs]

In DwD, Bran witnesses the execution of a captive in front of the Winterfell weirwood tree: " . . . as he [bran] watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them . . . a bronze sickle in her hand . . . "No," said Bran, "no, don't," but they could not hear him . . . The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed . . . Brandon Stark could taste the blood" (460). I am not sure whether this vision was part of the past, present, or foreshadowing for the future. However, I thought the white haired woman might be "Old Nan" rushing forth to exact vengeance on Theon for the "little lords' deaths" before the executioner [i thought I read that the Winterfell captives from Dreadfort were returned to WF for the Bolton/Arya wedding - and Nan's name is not bracketed in the family trees in the back of the book, so she is likely still alive]. Bran's weirwood observation may be further back in the past rather than a portent of what will come. When I read WoW "Theon" chapter with Asha suggesting Theon's death beneath Winterfell's heart tree, I recalled Bran's visits with the three-eyed-crow. I am sure someone already presented this idea, or it is way off mark, but I have to start somewhere.

[chrisdaw]

Bran is benevolent a character as this series has. Doesn't necessarily mean he'll save him, he may have use for Theon in death.

[Reznak mo Reznak]

Maybe he's a upgrade on Ned in terms of being crippled by hsi sense of honor. He has a vast amount of power, and a child's understanding of the world, so he could make some pretty colossal mistakes.

[woweezowee]

I am not sure whether this vision was part of the past, present, or foreshadowing for the future. However, I thought the white haired woman might be "Old Nan" rushing forth to exact vengeance on Theon for the "little lords' deaths" before the executioner

Here's a fuller extract from the passage in ADWD mentioned above:

The tree itself was shrinking, growing smaller with each vision, whilst the lesser trees dwindled into saplings and vanished, only to be replaced by other trees that would dwindle and vanish in their turn. And now the lords Bran glimpsed were tall and hard, stern men in fur and chain mail. Some wore faces he remembered from the statues in the crypts, but they were gone before he could put a name to them.

Then, as he watched, a bearded man forced a captive down onto his knees before the heart tree. A white-haired woman stepped toward them through a drift of dark red leaves, a bronze sickle in her hand.

“No,” said Bran, “no, don’t,” but they could not hear him, no more than his father had. The woman grabbed the captive by the hair, hooked the sickle round his throat, and slashed. And through the mist of centuries the broken boy could only watch as the man’s feet drummed against the earth … but as his life flowed out of him in a red tide, Brandon Stark could taste the blood.

I've copied and pasted that from a post by KisdbyFire in the ADWD forum. It's apparent from the fuller extract that the execution took place a long, long time ago ('...and through the mist of centuries...'). Each vision precedes the one before it. On the other hand, I do think this passage is potentially significant, and that Bran may wish to have Theon executed: there is a clear association here between blood sacrifice and the power of the weirwoods, and Bran (perhaps egged on by Bloodraven) may hope to gain something through Theon's sacrifice.

[woweezowee]

Theon seems most likely to die first in the next book...which is why I think he will survive

As a side note, I'm not really sure that this how GRRM operates. The genius of his books is that a character's death feels shocking when you read it, but then seems almost inevitable when you think about it. You expect them not to die because that's not usually how fantasy books operate, but they're usually very obviously in danger, or have made a series of obvious and dangerous mistakes, prior to their death.

[Black Wolf Smith]

After seeing the Iron Islands, Vic, Balon, Euron and Asha, I no longer hatted the Theon we meet in AGoT. As reader we know (and maybe Bran too) that Theon is not who most people think.

Theon did not turn on Rob. He could not over rule his father. So he did what he could, and tried to the man They (Iron men) wanted him to be (but he was weak and wasn't able to be)

Theon did not kill the millers son's Ramsey did(again he was too weak to stop it, and did not have a better idea)

Theon saved Bran life 2x once with an arrow, and once with a the lie. IMO both he and Ramsey think that Bran and Rickon died on the run. IIRC tells himself well they "could" be alive, meanning he doesn't think so which is part of the reason he doesn't tell Stannis, the other part is he is trying to protect Jeyne/Arya.

But all that being said I think Bran wants Theon near the tree so he can warg into him/ get a message to someone mayhaps Stannis. The tree is the power that Bryden and Bran have, there for the closer too the tree the more they can do.

[The Sleeper]

Bran has absolutely no reason to want to help Theon. On the other hand, the Bran we know would not wish death on someone he knows and wouldnn't let it happen if he could help it. That said, there are other factors. For one we don't know if there is anything he can do to stop this. Bloodraven, will have a whole different perspective on this whole affair and Bran himself may have access to the knowledge stored in the trees which could make him into an entirely different person in a very short period of tiime.

An observation regarding Summer. Though he seems the most cuddly of the direwolves after Lady, he was the first to kill, is extremely efficient at it and can overpower Shaggy. If the direwolves reflect the character of the kids, Bran could have a few surprises in store for us.

[Rhaegar Targaryen's Ghost]

I got the impression in ADwD that through the weirwood Bran has been urging Theon to remember his name. Not to save Theon's poor sad life, but because Bran (perhaps out of pity) hopes at least that he can die as Theon.

that is a really good point. I hadn't thought of that, but maybe bran just wanted theon to die as himself.

[House Stargaryen]

What do you guys think would happen if Theon tells Stannis and the others that he didn't kill Bran and Rickon Stark and that Ramsay was responsible for Winterfells' Sacking?? Also that the girl isn't Arya Stark? pretty serious consequences would arise.. maybe Bran knows what Theon knows and so doesn't want to kill him....yet :P

[JP Dayne]

i dont rly think bran is gonna save theon

theon has already suffered too much, even for an asshole of his magnitude

it's past time for him to die

remember grrm has stated that he's gonna cut some pov charachters and i could place money on theon and vic being two of them, and barry and mel losing their pov status

[Seabright]

I don't think Bran will choose either way if Theon dies. The weirwood location serves for a number of reasons:

1-Stannis will walk across the lake and see how many holes are in it, which will give him ideas for the coming battle.

2-it will remind Theon of the Starks he's let down.

3-Bran will be able to interact possibly.

I think Theon will hear Brans voice which will be the straw that breaks the camels back. I think Theon will fall apart and confess everything to Stannis.

And as we know Stannis is definetly Law abiding. And I don't think there will be any charges to answer for.

1- Ramsay killed the miller boys and sacked Winterfell.

2- In Stannis and the laws eyes, Robb was a traitor to the Iron Throne and Theon was legal in raising arms against the Starks/North.

I can't think of any other crimes but wouldn't be surprised if whatever they are theres the argument there legal in Stannis eyes.

[Catacombs]

I'm not sure that Bran has a lot of power over the fate of Theon. Yes, he can 'speak' through the trees--but this is a subtle power. The same is true when it comes to the ravens.

It makes perfect sense that Asha would suggest a quick death for her brother. The details of her final POV chapter in ADWD make it clear how horrible she finds the idea of being sacrificed to the fire god (she calls the fella who enraged the guards to kill him before the flames were lit the clever one). In her view, Theon has suffered enough. A quick death--at the hand of a King before the old Gods of the North--is way, way better than a slow roasting to please some foreign sadistic god.

On top of that, her survival is tied to the survival of Stannis. One look at Theon makes it pretty damn clear that she will be skinned alive if she is captured by the Boltons. With Stannis she might live, if he is defeated she is doomed. Advocating for a quick death for Theon is an act of kindness for her brother (mingled with a bit of self-preservation).

It is the best hand she has to play and she is playing it.

This may or may not fit in with the plans of Bran and BR. I suspect some overlap. I think the result of Theon's death will be to pull Stannis away from the Red God and towards an embrace of the old Gods. And I suspect that in the end Theon will know his name and die with a surprising amount of honor. That outcome would all be to the good IMHO.

Cheers

[Pliskin]

Why would Bran save Theon ?

Because Bran knows that the Old Way of the Iron Born has to stop (among other things needed in order to achieve peace in Westeros).

And the only one able to do so is Asha. And Asha needs Theon alive to overturn the Kingsmoot.

[romantic]

<snip>

2- In Stannis and the laws eyes, Robb was a traitor to the Iron Throne and Theon was legal in raising arms against the Starks/North.

<snip>

Good point. The traitor of a traitor is an ally, like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Stannis is so rigidly 'just' he may see it like this.

After seeing Theon, I wonder how badly Asha would like to kill Ramsay.

[Chrodarcniss]

Good point. The traitor of a traitor is an ally, like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Stannis is so rigidly 'just' he may see it like this.

I doubt it. Stannis saw them both as traitors and usurpers, otherwise he wouldn't have said both Balon Greyjoy's and Robb Stark's name when trowing the leeches in the fire. He did however seem the least sure of the right course of action when it was Robb Stark's leech.

It seems to me that the one he most closely agreed with was Robb. He agreed with Robb's decision to rise up against the current occupant of the Iron Throne. That baseborn abomination as he called it could not be allowed to keep the throne, it's just that Stannis though Robb should have done it for him, not for independence.

The Greyjoys and the Ironborn however fought the wrong foe (Stark instead of Lannister) as well as for the wrong king (Greyjoy instead of Stannis). It seems to me Stannis will consider that equal or worse than what Robb did. If Stannis ever has to really choose a side, he'll either declare them equally bad or choose the Stark side, never the Greyjoy side.

[FanTasy]

If Bran is the one controlling those talkative ravens (of which we can't really be certain at this stage) I'm not convinced Bran's motivation is to save Theon.

In his vision about an earlier sacrifice beneath a weirwood Bran tasted the blood of the man that was sacrificed.

Bran could just be 'hungry' :devil: .

Or maybe Theons blood serves another purpose. It is 'kings blood' and we know from the Red Lot that this type of blood is supposedly necessary to strengthen visions.

[TheeMikeHoncho]

If Bran is the one controlling those talkative ravens (of which we can't really be certain at this stage) I'm not convinced Bran's motivation is to save Theon.

In his vision about an earlier sacrifice beneath a weirwood Bran tasted the blood of the man that was sacrificed.

Bran could just be 'hungry' :devil: .

Or maybe Theons blood serves another purpose. It is 'kings blood' and we know from the Red Lot that this type of blood is supposedly necessary to strengthen visions.

I agree, i think that Theon will be needed as a sacrifice so a certain someone can live.