Why would Bran save Theon?

[NotSoSilentSister]

Most of his men are northmen tho, his own men numbered only 1,500, the northerners before the Karstarks and Umbers brought his numbers to 5,000, then men started dying in the cold and the southerners were dying at a higher rate than the northerners, so the proportion of old god worshippers to fire worshippers is even higher now. If a weirwood tree spoke, Stannis might not have a choice about listening.

Yes, but would they all be present for Theon's execution? Does that little island with the weirwould even hold that many people?

You could argue that it's too great of a PR-opportunity to pass up (bringing justice to the betrayer of the Starks), so Stannis might find a way to have everyone watch, but even so the Weirwood communication so far seemed to be a somewhat intimate affair, easily mistaken for the whisper of the winds through the leaves.Stannis could pass it off as hunger-induced hallicunations, to save himself the cognitive disonance.

Maybe that's been on purpose, because there hasn't been any need for mass announcements. Maybe this points to a natural limitation of this particular communication channel. At this point it's all speculation.

(Considering that Stannis probably plans to reunite with his garrison left at the Wall eventually, the current ratio of Rhollorists vs Old Gods believers in the camp is mostly of tactical, less of strategic concern. I have no idea about the numbers at the wall, but even if the Old God whorshippers still had the majority after a reunion, it's worth bearing in mind that the Northmen are of more questionable loyality anyway, and Stannis might still think himself better served humouring his own men, if he has some choice.)

[Tini]

Stannis always listened to people who want to help him claim the throne. If the weirwoods promise him the Iron Throne, he'll listen. I don't think there are that many devout followers of Rhllor left, not even at the Wall. The converts have started drifting back to the Seven. I guess R'hllor is weakened by all that snow and ice that surrounds him.

Why would Bran help Theon? I think Theon will face execution at the same time Jon faces the daggers at castle Black. I think Bran would rather help Jon than Theon. Maybe Jon will take possession of Theon. With Bran's help.

[NotSoSilentSister]

Stannis always listened to people who want to help him claim the throne. If the weirwoods promise him the Iron Throne, he'll listen. I don't think there are that many devout followers of Rhllor left, not even at the Wall. The converts have started drifting back to the Seven. I guess R'hllor is weakened by all that snow and ice that surrounds him.

Why would Bran help Theon? I think Theon will face execution at the same time Jon faces the daggers at castle Black. I think Bran would rather help Jon than Theon. Maybe Jon will take possession of Theon. With Bran's help.

I don't think Theon's King's blood will be involved in the Resurrection of Jon, mainly because there's strong forshadowing that Jon will spend some time in Ghost before he'll be back in his own body (Bran's visions, the Varamyr Sixskins prologue, the direwolf's name), so the timing just doesn't work out. When it comes to who does the requisite magic, my money is on Melisandre, not Bran.

I think Selyse's men at the Wall are all very fervent Rhollorists; would make sense, since Selyse herself is, and that's a good way to court her favour. Sure, any Weirwood shenianigans might convert a couple of souls, but consider that Mel might pull off something rather impressive as well, back at the Wall - my theory is that the King's Blood required to wake the dragon was Jon's and has already been spilt (he's waking himself; kill the boy and let the man be born); there should be some powerful magical forces floating around there right now, and Mel might well be in a position to make use of them.

Lastly, Bran himself has no interest in causing religous strife in Stannis' camp. He wants Stannis to defeat the Boltons; anything to aggravate the religious tensions among Stannis' men would be super counter-productive in the current situation. Bran wouldn't just have to convert Stannis, but all his bannermen. A talking tree is pretty nifty I guess, but so are Mel's glamours and a shadowbabies and stuff. We know her magic tricks can be somewhat flimsy, but the average Westerosi wouldn't. And what could Bran-tree do, apart from a little whispering?

Granted, spilling Theon's blood would probably lead to a power-up. But my whole argument rests on the notion that Theon is more useful alive. Apart from resurrecting Jon (which, again, I really can't see happening in the first couple of chapters, when Theon's sacrifice would take place) there's really not much of a use for Theon's blood at this point - or at least, it's very hard to think of something that would bring even half the strategical advantages of having a constant liasion to the chief commander of the only army who's currently positioned to do something about the main threat.

Consider that Bran himself is in the process of figuring stuff out. He probably can't tell Stannis everything he needs to know in one big-info-dump. But if Stannis has to kill a guy every time Bran needs to convey new info, that might hamper communication. Using Theon as a mouthpiece is just way more economical. Sustainability, people!

[Razha]

I can see basically 3 main reasons for Bran saving Theon (of course, if he saves him - that is still not quite clear at this point):

Option 1

Bran saves Theon for the humanitarian reasons or because he still feels certain attachment to him (after all Theon was around for almost entire life of Bran - even if he did something bad - Bran still might have some soft spot for him) - some people might find Theons sins unforgivable - but human heart works in misterious ways - and many of us too, if Theon was almost a brother for us for our entire life might be still inclined to forgive and to help....

Option 2

Bran needs Theon as a "servant" - to fulfill some task (eg - act as his warging puppet, or as his PR/Communications manager, or maybe he is going to sand Theon north to dig out Jon Snow from his Ice Grave, etc etc) - Theon might be physically ready to accept warging, or he might just communicate with Bran through some warewood, craw other psychodelic network...

After all Theon is best candidate for this function - it can be much easier for Bran to convince Theon to follow his order than try to communicate with some random Stark supporter (most people would probably just get nervous brakdown thinking that they are hearing some strange voices - after all even for blodraven it was not that simple to communicate with Bran - he could not just appear in his dreams, or speak throough craw or whatever and tell him -" sweet boy, please visit me in the far north - I want you to become a tree covered with mashrooms".

Only other people Bran could trust are his surviving siblings but again - if Bran needs to varg someone - he won't do it to his siblings, and if its about trying to communicate - his siblings are too young, too vulnerable, or too isolated to fulfil the task - so Theon is the best option

Option 3

Bran can see now many things present and past, and he also has visions of future - so maybe Bran knows that Theon is needed to fulfil some function. Not to do something for Bran (as in Option 2) but to play some role, fulfil own destiny, etc..

for example - what if it is really important for the future, for the survival of the westeros, to have the 2nd Kingsmot in order to depose or at least weaken Euron or maybe Iron Islanders can at least once in their entire history do something good for the humankind - but to do so they need someone to have as a leader else than Euron (not necessarily Theon by the way - his presence might be needed to overtun the decision of the previous Kingmot and call a new one, Theon or Asha might be elected as a result).

I used to think that there was simply not enough time left in the remaining 2 (or even 3) books for a repeated Kingsmot, given that there must be Eurons invasion in the mainland as well - Now when I think about it - I think it is possible for this two things to happen concurently:

Euron invades the Reach and may even eventually clash with fAegon.

Meanwhile Aeron starts a rebellion on the Iron Islands, at a certain moment Asha and Theon arrive and a repeated Kingsmot is called. The rule is that all the contenders must be informed of Kingsmot, not that all have to attend - so quite possibly Euron simply ignores 2nd Kingsmot or he is too busy fighting for Iron Throne - the Seastone Chair is not that important to him at that moment, and this gives Iron Islanders possibility to elect Theon or Asha. Not all the Ironborn would support them, but this still would definitely weaken Euron and diminish his powerbase - eventually leading to his defeat.

Euron might be one of the main big bad wulfs of the series - and maybe Bran saves Theon to destroy Euron.

[Aetta]

Why is it so impossible to believe that Bran might still have some compassion in his heart for a man who was essentially his foster brother?

It could be even more layered than that.

As Bran was cast down by Jaime, Theon was cast down at Pyke (metaphorically). As low on the Stark totem pole as Jon, Theon treated Bran like a little brother in spite of being a ward against his will. Theon could've acted like a little shit all that time. Those years were not for nuthin, because Theon did make the decision to spare Bran and Rickon. Not that this makes him a sweetheart, but at this point in the game Bran is not unaware of what House honor is. He must assume that Theon was on his daddy's orders.

In American society, torture is worse than death, morally and legally. It's possible Bran knows this justice. Was Theon not tortured when he could have been spared by death? Bran is no sadist, that we know of and maybe feels sorry for Reek.

I don't know that Theon has a destiny in all of this. Unless, perhaps, his destiny is to be executed by the men that are to pass the sentence, the Stark way-Bran or Rickon themselves, by their hand(s).

[Aetta]

It could be even more layered than that.

As Bran was cast down by Jaime, Theon was cast down at Pyke (metaphorically). As low on the Stark totem pole as Jon, Theon treated Bran like a little brother in spite of being a ward against his will. Theon could've acted like a little shit all that time. Those years were not for nuthin, because Theon did make the decision to spare Bran and Rickon. Not that this makes him a sweetheart, but at this point in the game Bran is not unaware of what House honor is. He may assume that Theon was on his daddy's orders.

In American society, torture is worse than death, morally and legally. It's possible Bran knows this justice. Was Theon not tortured when he could have been spared by death? Bran is no sadist, that we know of and maybe feels sorry for Reek.

I don't know that Theon has a destiny in all of this. Unless, perhaps, his destiny is to be executed by the men that are to pass the sentence, the Stark way-Bran or Rickon themselves, by their hand(s).

Liked my post so much I duplicated it! :drunk:

[Nic.]

Because he still sees him as a step brother. Bran is also seen as the most compassionate Stark by far in the series, and having seen what Theon has become, it wouldn't be out of character for Bran to try and help Theon despite what he did.

[King Jaime Lannister]

Bran needs for Theon to tell the truth about him and Rickon. this will be the forshadowing of Rickon's impending return to the North via Davos. Rickon will have to be the one they rally around. Bran is in the Cave controlling what he can, I think he understands that now.

Yes I agree. Hopefully he confesses to Stannis, gets beheaded in front of the Heart Tree, and the king's blood sacrifice brings Jon back.

[Capp]

Maybe Bran wants to lure Stannis to a heart tree in order to ask him to get Mel to please stop burning up all the Weirwood groves in the North. I could see that as a big issue for Bran.

[NotSoSilentSister]

[...]

Option 3

Bran can see now many things present and past, and he also has visions of future - so maybe Bran knows that Theon is needed to fulfil some function. Not to do something for Bran (as in Option 2) but to play some role, fulfil own destiny, etc..

for example - what if it is really important for the future, for the survival of the westeros, to have the 2nd Kingsmot in order to depose or at least weaken Euron or maybe Iron Islanders can at least once in their entire history do something good for the humankind - but to do so they need someone to have as a leader else than Euron (not necessarily Theon by the way - his presence might be needed to overtun the decision of the previous Kingmot and call a new one, Theon or Asha might be elected as a result).

I used to think that there was simply not enough time left in the remaining 2 (or even 3) books for a repeated Kingsmot, given that there must be Eurons invasion in the mainland as well - Now when I think about it - I think it is possible for this two things to happen concurently:

Euron invades the Reach and may even eventually clash with fAegon.

Meanwhile Aeron starts a rebellion on the Iron Islands, at a certain moment Asha and Theon arrive and a repeated Kingsmot is called. The rule is that all the contenders must be informed of Kingsmot, not that all have to attend - so quite possibly Euron simply ignores 2nd Kingsmot or he is too busy fighting for Iron Throne - the Seastone Chair is not that important to him at that moment, and this gives Iron Islanders possibility to elect Theon or Asha. Not all the Ironborn would support them, but this still would definitely weaken Euron and diminish his powerbase - eventually leading to his defeat.

Euron might be one of the main big bad wulfs of the series - and maybe Bran saves Theon to destroy Euron.

I've been arguing quite vehemently for option 2 in this thread, but you make a pretty good case for option 3 as well.

At any rate I'd be willing to bet that Theon survives the Weirwood episode. His story is simply not done yet.

[TheRealRedRonnet]

You also forget that time now has a different meaning to Bran,

It's entirely possible that he can see a future / futures where Theon plays a key role in events that Bran sees as a good outcome

I agree! I think Bran tries to spare Theon so he can return to Pyke and declare the Kingsmoot invalid because he was not preset. That would help take the fangs out of Euron