Too many new storylines open in aFfC & aDwD. How many PoVs in tWoW?

[Awake iron!]

We all now GRRM intends to reunite all the plotlines in the 6^th book, after the split he did in books 4 and 5. The problem is Martin has started so many new arcs (in new locations) in those two books, that now we have a ridiculous number of PoV characters to follow up in tWoW, if he wants to keep on narrating all that plots “from the inside”.

I made a recount of the PoVs that are still running to the beginning of the 6^th book, and the result was the amazing number of 17:

1. 
   Bran
   
2. 
   The Wall (Jon Snow/Melisandre)
   
3. 
   Davos
   
4. 
   Asha/Theon
   
5. 
   The Iron Islands (Aeron)
   
6. 
   Brienne/Jaime
   
7. 
   Sansa
   
8. 
   King's Landing (Cersei)
   
9. 
   Samwell
   
10. 
    Sunspear (Areo Hotah)
    
11. 
    Arianne
    
12. 
    The Golden Company (Griff)
    
13. 
    Arya
    
14. 
    Victarion
    
15. 
    Tyrion
    
16. 
    Meereen (Barristan)
    
17. 
    Daenerys
    

This is a growing number if we pay attention to the progression:

(leaving out prologue and epiloge PoVs)

Book 1: 8 PoVs.

Book 2: 9 PoVs.

Book 3: 10 PoVs.

Split: Book 4: 12 PoVs. Book 5:16 PoVs. (Aeron, Cersei, Arya, Jaime, Asha & Victarion have chapters in both books).

It's curious to notice that IMO the most interesting PoVs are the ones we've been invested into since the first 3 books:

• 
  We have 6 left from aGoT: Bran, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Tyrion & Dany. Theses are the classics.
  
• 
  Two more added in aCoK: Theon & Davos.
  
• 
  Another two in aSoS: Jaime & Samwell.
  

The PoVs added in books 4 and 5 are pretty much expendable to me:

I don't give a sh*t about Meereen.

I don't give a sh*t about Dorne.

I don't give a sh*t about the Ironborn.

And honestly at this stage of the Game, I don't give a sh*t about Cersei either. I just want to read how she dies. I'm actually outraged that she' been able to make it to the 6^th book.

Surprisingly, the only arc that I'm interested in among the new ones is the Golden Company's. Maybe because AT LEAST they've managed to get to Westeros and DO SOMETHING, unlike Dany. I want to know if they can conquer Storm's End and all that stuff. The only think lacked is the development of Aegon as a character. We haven't known him in depth yet.

The problem I see here is that Martin has split the action in too many groups of people being and going to different places. I know eventually the will be joining each other, but for the beginning of this book 6, i think the plot is still too atomized, and can be confusing. But, in the other hand, I wouldn't be that surprised if Martin's narrative skills save the day for him.

So my doubt is, will GRRM continue all that plotlines with PoVs, or will he just stick to the original PoVs, and let us know what happens in other places of Westeros/Essos in second hand? Will there be 17 PoVs in tWoW, or would it be too onerous for the book's narrative pace?

[John Reynolds]

_{I asked GRRM back in 2005 at a book signing how he was going to manage all these narratives when the story coalesces together in book 6. He hesitated, chuckld, and said something like, "Well, I'm going to have to kill more characters, aren't I." The crowd laughed.}

_{I'm pretty convinced he can't finisht he story in two books. If he lives long enough to pen it, I think of books 4 + 5 as vinculums bookended by trilogies.}

[Greggles]

I'm thinking that GRRM will be able to manage the POV's and there doesn't neccesarily have to be a major culling of POV characters for the story to advance at a satisfying pace.

For Dany (assuming she leaves Meereen) different parts of the journey can be narrated by different people. She can give the order to go and we get to read about it from Tyrion's

and Barristan's alternating POVs (Tyrion's will be more entertaining)

That being said, I'm pretty sure Victarion will be a little too insistent about 'claiming his princess' and despite his nifty horn is gonna get a faceful of draecarys.

[Tharvot]

GRRM at the very least has consolidated many of the POV characters into the same or nearby locations. I'm going to assume that in Winds, we see 6 POV character deaths (or at least 6 well known characters) and in the final book we will see 1/2 the remaining POVs and famous characters meet their ends.

[WetHair]

I think tWoW will be 1300 pages, all POVs accomodated, and everyone will be happy as larks except the bookbinders and frail fans.

[Salty Cat]

He doesn't have to write more than two o three chapters for quite a few, for example, Davos never gets a lot of chapters, and I don't see Sam getting a lot either...

[sillent]

Just my guess here but...

Victarian and Selmy's plot will either merge with Tyrions or Danys (and/or eventually both) -- this will probably happen early since the battle for meereen will take place. It can either be done by giving all of them few chapters for different perspectives or just tell it all from one of the main POV characters.

Doran/Areo probably wont have any more chapters and Dornes-side of the story will probably just be told through Arianne.

Furthermore, I wouldnt be surprised if Arianne's chapters either merge in with Griffs or then with Kings Landing (if I remember correctly shes going on the council? or was that one of the snakes?)

Arya, Sansa and Bran will probably have very few chapters amongst them as in book 5 (and 4?) and their story will progress ever so slowly. Hell I'd probably throw Samwell in this category too -- he might get a few chapters to just give us a bit of citadel info..

As for Jaime, I'd say either hes just going to die fairly quickly, or he wont and then he'll return to Kings Landing. Hopefully we dont waste too many pages on him just trekking through the highway.

Kings Landing, the Wall and Dany/Tyrion (hopefully their stories converge and we dont have a whole lot of wasted sideplot) will probably see the most action -- and Davos will have a few chapters finding Rickon..

As for the iron islands, I really hope a tsunami just gets rid those islands -- completely hate that plot and people. I guess Victarian might be vital in the big picture, but without the Dragon-Horn I dont see what Euron+Damp can bring to the table.

So yes, I hope Martin wraps most of the sideplots up since I'm guessing hes gonna introduce more characters anyway (lands of always winter) I guess well just have to wait and see!

[TheWhiteBull89]

Martin did leave it off with a lot of POVs for the next book, many are in the same place and Martin's been quoted saying he's going to kill more people in this book

out of the 4 in Meeren (Dany,Tyrion,Victorian,Selmy) I cant see more than 2 surviving the battle thats about to take place

in the North for the Battle of the Ice we have Theon and Asha .. there is no way Theon is surviving this book and my guess would be that Asha gets written out someway

The Jamie/Brienne situation will be resolved very early in the book and I cannot see both of them ending up alive

And we know Connington has the grey scale and is in the midst of starting a war, 1 of the 2 will surely be the downfall of him by the end of the book

[sillent]

Martin did leave it off with a lot of POVs for the next book, many are in the same place and Martin's been quoted saying he's going to kill more people in this book out of the 4 in Meeren (Dany,Tyrion,Victorian,Selmy) I cant see more than 2 surviving the battle thats about to take place in the North for the Battle of the Ice we have Theon and Asha .. there is no way Theon is surviving this book and my guess would be that Asha gets written out someway The Jamie/Brienne situation will be resolved very early in the book and I cannot see both of them ending up alive And we know Connington has the grey scale and is in the midst of starting a war, 1 of the 2 will surely be the downfall of him by the end of the book

I wouldnt be too sure about Theon dying..

Same with Jamie/Brienne, though I feel like their plot will be resolved pretty early and so they wont really need to have any more chapters.. POV characters dont need to all end with them dying, they could just get resolution.

Connington might die of greyscale or something but that would probably shift the POV to Aegon unless the entire army dies! (which would seem like a waste of putting this entire subplot in.. also what would Varys do then haha)

[Awake iron!]

Arya, Sansa and Bran will probably have very few chapters amongst them as in book 5 (and 4?) and their story will progress ever so slowly. Hell I'd probably throw Samwell in this category too -- he might get a few chapters to just give us a bit of citadel info..

As for Jaime, I'd say either hes just going to die fairly quickly, or he wont and then he'll return to Kings Landing. Hopefully we dont waste too many pages on him just trekking through the highway.

Kings Landing, the Wall and Dany/Tyrion (hopefully their stories converge and we dont have a whole lot of wasted sideplot) will probably see the most action -- and Davos will have a few chapters finding Rickon.

I'd really like Arya and Bran to have more chapters than you say. I can see Bran completing his training with the Children of the Forest in time to make it to the Wall for the Others' attack at the end of the book. For Arya, she could also end her aprenticeship with the Faceless men and go to Westeros to kick some ass. She would go to the twins to kill Lord Frey, and then to King's Landing to kill Cersei; but not before Cersei knows that Jaime's been killed by Catelyn Stark. The news of his death will create such a turmoil in King's Landing, that will make the storyline advance a lot.

When you talk about the Wall, I suppose you also include the war between Stannis and the Boltons.

out of the 4 in Meeren (Dany,Tyrion,Victorian,Selmy) I cant see more than 2 surviving the battle thats about to take place

in the North for the Battle of the Ice we have Theon and Asha .. there is no way Theon is surviving this book and my guess would be that Asha gets written out someway

It's certain that Victarion will die, but Dany and Tyrion will make it for sure, and I think Selmy has yet a role to play. He has to talk Dany about how Eddard Stark wanted to save her life and other stuff from the past, and be her advicer.

You seem very sure that Theon will die, but I see a possible path of redemption for him, even as a benevolent Lord Greyjoy.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Martin did leave it off with a lot of POVs for the next book, many are in the same place and Martin's been quoted saying he's going to kill more people in this book

No, that was just a jolly jape that jesting Martin tossed off for gicks and krins. The question was how to bring so many points of view together. His answer was meant to be funny; he was playing on his notoriety for killing off characters. He has plenty of other ways of making viewpoints converge, like putting whole buttloads of them all in the same place at the same time, as is about to occur in Meereen.

[CrypticWeirwood]

You seem very sure that Theon will die, but I see a possible path of redemption for him, even as a benevolent Lord Greyjoy.

Do you really think the Ironborn will accept a circumcised lord? That crew seem rather too rough and uncut to me, not to mention religious, to ever accept back into their fold a(n ex-)man who’s lost his foreskin to a foreign bastard’s flaying-knife.

[dtones520]

The POVs are all starting to move to the same location. After the Battle for Mereen you will probably knock off two POVs, Victarion and Barristan, leaving Dany and Tyrion. Arriane is meeting up with Griff. Davos will probably end up back with Stannis and co at some point. Things are going to work out, I have faith.

[CrypticWeirwood]

The POVs are all starting to move to the same location. After the Battle for Mereen you will probably knock off two POVs, Victarion and Barristan, leaving Dany and Tyrion. Arriane is meeting up with Griff. Davos will probably end up back with Stannis and co at some point. Things are going to work out, I have faith.

People try to put us d-down (Talkin' 'bout my generation)

Just because we get around (Talkin' 'bout my generation)

Things they do look awful c-c-cold (Talkin' 'bout my generation)

I hope I die before I get old (Talkin' 'bout my generation)

It is startling, and fairly disgusting, to see how many young kids keep wanting to see Ser Barristan the Bold kick the fucket just because he’s “old”. How old is he?

• Ser Barristan was knighted by Egg.
  
• The Green Grace is from the generation previous to Ser Barristan.
  
• Maester Aemon is from the generation previous to the Green Grace.
  
• Brynden Rivers is from the generation previous to Maester Aemon.
  

What is this perverse desire to kill “old” people about?

I just don’t understand it. Maybe you’ll get lucky and The Who’s lyrics will come true for you. That way nobody else will have to Soylent Green you just because you get a grey hair.

Kids! They think having grey hair is like living in rotting flesh. May they never be so lucky as to learn otherwise!

[ThePaleMare]

"The PoVs added in books 4 and 5 are pretty much expendable to me:

I don't give a sh*t about Meereen.

I don't give a sh*t about Dorne.

I don't give a sh*t about the Ironborn.

And honestly at this stage of the Game, I don't give a sh*t about Cersei either. I just want to read how she dies. I'm actually outraged that she' been able to make it to the 6^th book."

This. All this.

[Faint]

As many have already pointed out, it doesn't matter how many POVs there are, only the number of concurrent storylines that are on-going. If there are two or more POVs in the same relative location, that only counts as one storyline. As of the beginning of The Winds of Winter, there are roughly 13 of these separate threads of the story.

(1) Jon Snow/Melisandre

(2) Davos Seaworth

(3) Theon Greyjoy/Asha Greyjoy

(4) Aeron Greyjoy

(5) Jaime Lannister/Brienne of Tarth

(6) Sansa Stark

(7) Arya Stark

(8) Cersei Lannister

(9) Arianne Martell/Jon Connington

(10) Aero Hotah

(11) Sam Tarly

(12) Daenerys Targaryen/Tyrion Lannnister/Barristan Selmy/Victarion Greyjoy

(13) Bran Stark

I can easily see half these threads either collapsing into each other or dissipating completely by the end of The Winds of Winter. It isn't that big a deal as people are making it out to be.

[Dolorous Ali]

Whatever happens, I just hope there are more Arya chapters. They were soooooo few in the last two books.

[ZombieWife]

Just let the next book be 2000 pages. I'm down with that. Write, GRRM. We're here to read it all. :D

[three-eyed monkey]

I have faith in the gods, old and new, that GRRM will pull it together in two books. Two BIG books hopefully.

He's got POVs in about thirteen significant locations. Some are stand-alones like sansa, arya, davos or samwell while in some places he's got a couple like jamie/brienne or theon/asha, and hence a choice from who's eyes to tell the that part of the story. And in some places like mereen he's spoilt for choice. But he's still only got to tell the story. He might take the battle in mereen from a few points of view like he did the blackwater but he doesn't have to go with all four. By the time it's over it'll be four no more.

Some POV's will obviously die and others will converge in location. Some POV characters will reach their resolution through the eyes of another POV character, like ned as seen by sansa in AGoT.

My guess is book seven will be down to a handful of locations, assuming dany finally gets to westeros. POV will then be given to the nailed-on characters like dany, bran and tyrion plus a few others, maybe 8 in total - or the perhaps the magical 7?

[DetroitLeprechaun]

Davos is definitely doing his own thing right now, but when he gets back he's reporting to Lord Lard (Wyman Manderly) who will declare for Stannis, who has Asha and Theon with him. After Winterfell Stannis will likely call on Melisandre and possibly Jon Snow, so that links all of the characters in the North.

Daenarys just got captured by a Khal if I remember correctly. Either Drogon saves her and they fly back or the Dothraki take her to the Yunkai camps outside of Meereen, where Barristan is at. Victarion is about to break up this siege with the Iron Fleet, and the Second Sons, with Tyrion, will soon be joining up with Meereen.

Jon Connington aka Griff is going to try to take Storm's End, possibly with the help of Dorne. This could involve Area Hotah and Arriane.

Bran will probably play an interesting role here. I'm predicting that he somehow contacts Jon Snow through the weirwoods just like he did on Jon's ranging with Quorin Halfhand.

That's about as much of the puzzle as I can piece together.

What I want to see in the book: I think it would be really cool if Thoros of Myr could be a PoV. The Knights of the Hollow hill (my preferred name) are playing a Robin Hood type role here.

The most interesting thing I wish would happen would be the Knights of the Hollow Hill declaring for Stannis. They both worship R'hllor and have Red Priests.