Patchface Prophesies

[King Tyrion Targaryen]

"It is always summer under the sea"

Show Spoilers:

If we believe that the most recent episode of the TV show is based on book material and the Others are actually incapable of crossing a body of water, then it looks like we can chalk up another Patchface Victory.

[Ninerings]

I found this odd....

Patchface begins to sing, The shadows came to dance, my lord, dance my lord, dance my lord, hopping from one foot to the other, The shadows came to stay, my lord, stay my lord, stay my lord. He jerks his head with each word, and his bells make a clangor. Shireen declares that Patchface has been singing that song often lately and it scares her.

And now The Ghost of High Heart

I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells.

Both are about the Red Wedding yet, she mentions little Bells, Patchface's Bells are ringing, the word clangor is used in both. I have a hard time thinking GRRM did that on accident

I took the little bells to mean Jinglebell.

[Son_of_Feanor]

Patchface is one of my favorite characters. No question that, as someone said above, GRRM had major plans for him from early in the series.

My favorite prophecy is the one about the Mermen feasting on starfish soup, while being served by Crabs.

Mermen...........Manderlys

Crabs...............Borrells

Starfish............?

Ah, now here is the mystery. Who are the starfish in Patchface's riddle?

Has anyone taken a look at the sigil of House Bolton? It could be said to resemble something other than a flayed man....

[Martin Snow]

"We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh

I thought maybe the ship's that Cotter Pyke took will come back full of wights and the will get to the castle full of wildling women who will call a warning for castle black

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Cotter Pyke and Hardhome was my initial thought, too. It's a bit, too obvious though.

But now I am more inclined to thing that might be more related to Davos voyage to Skagos.

Davos dined with Godric Borrell (Crabs)

The ships and crew he gets from the Manderlys (Mermen).

The Star Fish Soup is a bit tricky, but since it is heavily implied that canibalism takes place on Skagos I guess we will get our answer there. Somehow I don't think Davos will survive this trip though. So the star fish could very well turn out to be the name of the ship the Manderly's give him.

[Son_of_Feanor]

Another possibility, enticing but unlikely:

The merlings are the fabled Deep Ones who truly do live "under the sea." Their return could explain the "dead things in the water" reported by Cotter Pyke.

The crabs are still the Borrells, who are rumored to have squisher blood in them.

That still leaves the mystery of the Starfish soup.

Who might the Borrells be sacrificing to the Deep Ones?

[Les Météores D]

Look at what's going on around him when Patchface gives the whole “Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black” prophecy: it's when Stannis is getting "Lightbringer" and Melisandre is shouting about him being AA reborn. Perhaps Patchface was trying, in his own Patchface-y way, to "correct" Melisandre? Perhaps this ditty is meant to describe the "real" AA reborn/Lightbringer?

Yes I think so too.

Late in the party but I just read interesting old threads about colors and gems, specifically related to dragons (real and metaphoric), the first DoD and RR. To simplify: green=usurper/false (fAegon), black=rightful heir (Dany) and blue=winter rose (Jon).

So maybe this one refers to the glass candles but it could also mean that Patchface thinks of the 3 headed dragon/"the dragon has 3 heads", thus linking AA/PtwP prophecies together and also revealing that Stannis is out of the race right from the beginning.

(also maybe foreseeing DoD 2.0 but that's a little far-fetched)

[Wingednosering]

“That creature is dangerous. Many a time I have glimpsed him in my flames. Sometimes there are skulls about him, and his lips are red with blood.”

 

 

My first time through the books I remember being obssessed with that and thinking it was really important.  I thought he was going to kill Shireen and spread Grayscale or something silly like that.

 

My most recent time through though, I just took it to mean that the words he says prophesize death.

[The Great Cornholio!]

 

My first time through the books I remember being obssessed with that and thinking it was really important.  I thought he was going to kill Shireen and spread Grayscale or something silly like that.

 

My most recent time through though, I just took it to mean that the words he says prophesize death.

 

I think the skulls are associated with his death. Just like the skulls that surround Jon when Mel see's him in the fires.

[AerionBrightflameII]

Patchface is one of my favorite characters.  No question that, as someone said above, GRRM had major plans for him from early in the series.

 

My favorite prophecy is the one about the Mermen feasting on starfish soup, while being served by Crabs.

 

Mermen...........Manderlys

Crabs...............Borrells

Starfish............?

 

Ah, now here is the mystery.  Who are the starfish in Patchface's riddle?

 

Has anyone taken a look at the sigil of House Bolton?  It could be said to resemble something other than a flayed man....

The only Starfish sigil i know of is House Ruthermont from the Vale and they are completely irrelevant, not one member has appeared in the series yet.

 

Where did GRRM say he has serious plans for Patchface ?

[Modesty Lannister]

Another possibility, enticing but unlikely:

 

The merlings are the fabled Deep Ones who truly do live "under the sea."  Their return could explain the "dead things in the water" reported by Cotter Pyke.  

 

The crabs are still the Borrells, who are rumored to have squisher blood in them.

 

That still leaves the mystery of the Starfish soup.

 

Who might the Borrells be sacrificing to the Deep Ones?

I believe Starfish are the Boltons, because their sigil looks like a starfish. But, it may be my wishful thinking.

[XAeon]

I felt that patchface felt familiar when I read the books the first time. Also when rereading ofc, but then I think it is due to rereading.

I tried to look up books that I've read, but there are quite many. Eventually however, I came upon Pillars of the Earth by Ken Follett, which feautres and ending very influenced by the white ship.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/White_Ship

And that might be where the feeling of dejavu concerning the character of patchface comes from.

Also, in Robin Hobbs Farseer Triology, a fool is someone else in disguise.

Foundation, by Isaac Asimov, also features a character in this vein. The Mule, an all-powerul mental mutant, disguises himself as a clown throughout most of the book then it's revealed he is the Big Bag towards the end. Not saying it is a parallel, but GRRM might have drawn on this story somewhat if Patchface turns out to be more than he appears...

I knew someone must have already drawn the comparison.

I think it is very similar, in that Patches isn't necessarily a mystical prophetic figure so much as holding up a farce while being acutely aware of at least some of the details of a larger plan, and overseeing aspects of it as an infiltrator.

He says provocative things that may hint to possible truth, perhaps to spark conversation or prod a response from the characters, but also functions as a tool by the author to whet the readers' detective appetites by dropping possible clues in our faces, only to divine their possible importance in hindsight of other significant events.

It's almost like a cry for help that manipulative and/or emotionally damaged people exhibit.

[XAeon]

"Under the sea" : I interpret this to mean magic, glamour, shadow, darkness - even death -but certainly not one exclusively.

"No one wears hats" behind the magic, you are vulnerable. Magic doesn't need be a literal term, just representative of a facade.

Under water, in darkness, behind a veil, etc... a helm, crown, nor jester's cap need mean anything.

Under snow or ash, whatever the mantle upon your head, it will be obscured, and all will be considered no more friend than foe.

In short, I perceive Patches to be calling out "who you are" or "what you truly desire" within context to characters or situations.

It's abstract, but that's the allure of his character.

Thoughts?

[XAeon]

"Under the sea" : I interpret this to mean magic, glamour, shadow, darkness - even death -but certainly not one exclusively.

"No one wears hats" behind the magic, you are vulnerable. Magic doesn't need be a literal term, just representative of a facade.

Under water, in darkness, behind a veil, etc... a helm, crown, nor jester's cap need mean anything.

Under snow or ash, whatever the mantle upon your head, it will be obscured, and all will be considered no more friend than foe.

In short, I perceive Patches to be calling out "who you are" or "what you truly desire" within context to characters or situations.

It's abstract, but that's the allure of his character.

Thoughts?

... and is it possible that Patches wrote the pink letter?