How would you rate episode 208?

[iamsbee]

I left really disappointed, most to do with the Arya scenes as too much was cut out, no weael soup, no coin, no telling her the phase (well maybe they squeeze these in next week) and also Tyrion's role in the war is too reduced; u don't get to see just how integral he was in the whole defense planning.

A 7/10 for me at most.

[ServantOnIce]

. Bad stuff: - Talisa's story seemed to go on for way too long. - Shae is such a crappy actress.

Her acting career, let's just say is less than stellar and less than "challenging." :drunk:

[MyGiantofLannister]

An 8/10, leaning more towards an 9 then a 7 though.

[Conchobar]

I gave it a 6. Would have been a 7 but I really wanted to see Arya kill the guard in cold blood as I think it's a defining character moment for her. Feels like they chose the safe route. And I'm not usually one to complain about differences from the books. Good stuff: - Varys, and lots of him! That last scene with Tyrion was great. - Stannis! - The Winterfell storyline continues to be great, and nice to see Yara again. - The guy that plays Roose is great and I fist-pump at every mention of his bastard. - I think we all saw the Ros/Shae thing coming, but it was still a decent idea. - Good that we're still getting scenes with the rest of the Night's Watch. I think that means we'll end the season on the three horns. - The rest of the Harrenhal stuff was fine. - Jaime/Brienne, hells yeah. Also liked Robb arresting Cat. Bad stuff: - Talisa's story seemed to go on for way too long. - Shae is such a crappy actress.

pornstar

[Patchface12]

If anything Walder Frey would be even more slighted that Robb married some foreign girl than if he'd married Lannister bannermen. At least Jeyne Westerling was a Westerosi highborn.

Even more-so, they make Talisa sound like she comes from a merchant's family. From LF's mention of the Gulltown Arryns who married into merchant families in Feast, it seems like merchants are looked down upon by Westerosi. Plus, she's a foreigner on top of that.

Filch Walder Frey has far more reasons to be pissed at Robb than book Walder Frey.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Patchface12

[Ran]

ServantOnIce,

Kekilli is one of Germany's leading actresses, with international film awards for her performances in Gegen di Wand and Die Fremde (the latter of which was Germany's Oscar submission for the 83rd Academy Awards). Don't have to be coy about the fact that you seem to think that the fact that she did some porn films in her early years, but to pretend that that defines her is rather stupid.

Frankly, she's better than the material the writers are giving her this season -- such a waste. I think they genuinely thought they could build Shae into some thing quite different, meriting an actress of her caliber... but they've dropped the ball this season, just leaving her an inexplicable enigma with almost nothing to do except be a cipher. And the sad thing is, I can't see them having time in the next two seasons to address their failure to justify the changes they've made without scanting other important areas.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

I am not sure which book, or which show you watched but Robb never made a "solemn vow", he was told he would marry a Frey, if you rewatch the episode from season 1 it looks like he just sucked a lemon when he is told what the price of crossing the bridge is. He didn't like it then, he doesn't like the idea of some nameless faceless Frey as a wife and he is more than aware that the Late lord Frey is simply working to upjump his station by marrying off one of his eleventy bazzillion grand kids to a great lord

In order to pass through the Twins, Robb vowed to marry a Frey. It was as close to a vow as it gets really. How much he wanted to do it is somewhat irrelevant really, but by doing so it showed us two things.

1. He understands the vital importance of the Freys.

2. He is willing to make necessary sacrifices, the kind that the Warden of the North must undertake in order to rule with honour and decency.

If Robb didn't vow to marry a Frey, how did he pass through the Twins? The point I'm making is that his reasoning behind breaking the agreement/vow with the Freys is now inherently flawed, and paints him as little more than a whiny little douche. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sympathised with Robb when he told Catelyn why he married Jeyne in the books. He was distraught at the death of his brothers, and did not want to dishonour Jeyne by nobbing her and then simply moving on. Compare this with "omg ur rly sweet and honrble becoz u r nt lyk uva nobl girlz pls u hve a gd ass". He's throwing away his kingdom for no other reason than his wish to get his dick wet.

The entire north and the riverlands are aware that Walder Frey is a self centered old coot with more progeny than he can hope to marry off. Robb the lord of WInterfell didn't want to marry into that, nor does Robb the king. Talasia works just as well for me as does Jeyne, she is a noble, she is compassionate, she to Robb's mind is not just out to get a position in court or a pawn for her dodgey old lecherous grandfathers way to increase his standing. In fact I like the way they are playing it out. I hated that in the books GRRM just pops a bride on everyone, I thought it was a crappy way to reveal it, totally off camera and basically unexplained, at least in the series you see a woman that shows up, cares for the wounded, has a back story that shows why she would care for the wounded, and is hot enough to make the blood of a male boil if he was presented with some alone time and an untennable marriage situation.

I imagine most people out there have had the chance to hook up with someone they felt was hot, but the circumstances surrounding said hot individual were not great. Most of us as a result would probably, you know, not go there. We are just normal laypeople, and still exerted this thing called willpower. Book Robb had a genuine emotional reason to go there with Jeyne, show Robb is almost impossible to sympathise with on this issue, especially considering what he has to lose by doing what he does.

Honestly the whole Robb+ Tulisa/Jeyne thing could not have been more poorly scripted and plotted.

Edited May 21, 2012 by The Third Reed

[akajea]

1.

They ruined Arya.

Theon and "Yara"... hmm... "Cunt again? It was odd how men like Suggs used that word to demean women when it was the only part of a woman they valued." - Asha Greyjoy.

Tyrion and his stupid whore - It works in the books as Tyrion's patheticity is actually emphasized. In the show however, he is portrayed as a handsome badass, so his falling in love with a whore just makes no fucking sense. Wasted screentime.

Robb and Talisa/Jeyne - Boring dialogue and a sex scene. Made Robb even stupider than he was in the books. At least in the books he had a reason, here it's just hormones which is funny because his actor isn't even a teenager like in the books.

The last scene with Luwin, Osha, Bran and Rickon was great. I can't remember any other good parts beyond that though, as my mind is clouded by their destruction of Arya.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I liked Stannis and Davos. They've been good this season. These two good scenes can raise my score to a 1.1.

Edited May 21, 2012 by akajea

[Dolorous Nick]

I just realized something. I remember thinking that last night's episode ended on kind of a weak note, but then remembered that, because I had read the books, I already knew that the two corpses in Winterfell weren't Bran and Rickon. So any element of surprise/relief in that final scene just wasn't there for me because I never really feared for the two youngest Stark children. In some ways, reading the books detracts from the show because I know what happens next. In other ways, however, it builds suspense because I can't wait to see how they portray certain events from the written story to the screen. (I can't wait to see how House of the Undying is portrayed for example.) This is probably a different thread altogether though!

[Boondoggle]

The weakest episode of the entire series to this point....no iron coin or the phase of "valar morghulis", are you serious!

The iron coin and valar morghulis is absolutely pivotal to Ayra's future travels! Not to mention her killing of a guard when they escape.

No chain...are you kidding me! Again, another important strategic stroke of genius by Tyrion to defend King's Landing from Stannis' assault from the river.

[rmholt]

The weakest episode of the entire series to this point....no iron coin or the phase of "valar morghulis", are you serious! The iron coin and valar morghulis is absolutely pivotal to Ayra's future travels! Not to mention her killing of a guard when they escape. No chain...are you kidding me! Again, another important strategic stroke of genius by Tyrion to defend King's Landing from Stannis' assault from the river.

I like this post because you seem like the kind of guy who is going to continue to enjoy the emotional roller coasters you are going to have

[Patchface12]

The last episode of the season is titled "Valar Morghulis." I don't think Jaqen is done just yet.

I liked Arya's scenes with Tywin, and I didn't mind the changes in her storyline until we get to Amory Lorch's over the top death scene. I'm not happy about them cutting out Weasel soup, but I understand why they cut it. The fact that Roose Bolton and Vargo Hoat held Harrenhal at some point in the books are ultimately meaningless to the final outcome of the story, so they just skip over it to Clegane having it from then on.

I still think/hope they'll have Vargo Hoat next season. He and the Bloody Mummers just seem too important to be done away with.

[Ruka]

In order to pass through the Twins, Robb vowed to marry a Frey. It was as close to a vow as it gets really. How much he wanted to do it is somewhat irrelevant really, but by doing so it showed us two things. 1. He understands the vital importance of the Freys. 2. He is willing to make necessary sacrifices, the kind that the Warden of the North must undertake in order to rule with honour and decency. If Robb didn't vow to marry a Frey, how did he pass through the Twins? The point I'm making is that his reasoning behind breaking the agreement/vow with the Freys is now inherently flawed, and paints him as little more than a whiny little douche. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sympathised with Robb when he told Catelyn why he married Jeyne in the books. He was distraught at the death of his brothers, and did not want to dishonour Jeyne by nobbing her and then simply moving on. Compare this with "omg ur rly sweet and honrble becoz u r nt lyk uva nobl girlz pls u hve a gd ass". He's throwing away his kingdom for no other reason than his wish to get his dick wet. I imagine most people out there have had the chance to hook up with someone they felt was hot, but the circumstances surrounding said hot individual were not great. Most of us as a result would probably, you know, not go there. We are just normal laypeople, and still exerted this thing called willpower. Book Robb had a genuine emotional reason to go there with Jeyne, show Robb is almost impossible to sympathise with on this issue, especially considering what he has to lose by doing what he does. Honestly the whole Robb+ Tulisa/Jeyne thing could not have been more poorly scripted and plotted.

Call me a romantic, I like the idea that Robb actually formed a semi on camera relationship with a female, then had a moment of realization that he would rather not marry an as to yet, un-named, anywhere from 12 to 70 year old Frey that he can't name, never met, hasn't spied through the grape vine doesn't care about.

You seriously would rather he go with the florence nightengale/porn scenario where he accidentaly throws his caring nurse in the weeds in a fit of remorse over his 2 dead brothers in a milk of the poppy enduced haze? compared to him forming an actual relationship where he talks to a girl with a clear head and finds that she has a brain, has compassion for others and might actually like him too? How many thousands of stories are out there of people going against their "normal" behavior for "love"

you like the book version where 2 dead brothers + drug haze = sex

I like the TV version where long walks on the beach + conversations + like interests = sex.

either way, sex and the following actions will cause trouble.

[xanmcgregor]

Good scene with Davos and Stannis. Shows their characters, Stannis fair, Davos loyal.

[The Meeraculous Third Reed]

Call me a romantic, I like the idea that Robb actually formed a semi on camera relationship with a female,

Why does it have to be "on-camera"? I've never understood this need for everyone to understand and see everything that goes on. One of the great strengths of ACOK was the lack of Robb, not because I dislike the character and so forth, but because there was always a degree of tension to be maintained through having him away from the narrative directly. Catelyn's fears for him were ours, and I was always interested to hear what was going on in the West, but I didn't need to see it.

then had a moment of realization that he would rather not marry an as to yet, un-named, anywhere from 12 to 70 year old Frey that he can't name, never met, hasn't spied through the grape vine doesn't care about.

I've already noted that I sympathise with Robb. However, the reason for him betraying his word to the Freys and momentarily shirking his responsiblities as King of the North and the son of a respected man in Ned Stark should be stronger than him wanting to get his dick wet.

You seriously would rather he go with the florence nightengale/porn scenario where he accidentaly throws his caring nurse in the weeds in a fit of remorse over his 2 dead brothers in a milk of the poppy enduced haze?

Is it said he was under the influence of the Poppy in the books? I'll read through later, but I always felt that he was injured at the Crag, cared for by Jeyne for a period, before falling into her arms following him finding out about Bran and Rickon. That really doesn't fit a porn scenario for me. Maybe I'm visiting the wrong sites.

compared to him forming an actual relationship where he talks to a girl with a clear head and finds that she has a brain, has compassion for others and might actually like him too?

As is implied in the books. Just because you're not shown it directly, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

How many thousands of stories are out there of people going against their "normal" behavior for "love" you like the book version where 2 dead brothers + drug haze = sex I like the TV version where long walks on the beach + conversations + like interests = sex. either way, sex and the following actions will cause trouble.

I'm able to contextualise and judge poor writing and scripting as such.

[PatrickStormborn]

Only gave this episode an 8, sadly. Far too much Robb and Talisa, and not enough Dany or Sansa. Personally I don't have a problem with the show's changes to Jeyne... But I do find her interactions with Robb to be, so far, the weakest (by far) part of the show. Talisa will be more interesting in season 3, I expect.

Anyway, Robb and Talisa really slowed the episode down for me. They could have spent that time developing Sandor and Sansa in time for their scene at the Blackwater. Or they could have done more with Dany's story, which is going to seem quite rushed in episode 10.

I loved the Jaime/Brienne scene, Stannis/Davos, Arya's scene ("A man can go kill himself" - best line of the episode for me!), Dany's short scene ("What of my magic?"), and all the Tyrion scenes.

[BlackTalon]

Points off because of the missing guard and iron coin scene, no "a man has to die now" scene and Talisa's hopelessly overblown "the childhood experience that made me want to be a medic" exposition.

Episode seemed a bit lame and dialogue heavy overall, but as has been mentioned before that is actually pretty much was the book was like, so I can´t really complain.

I am not so sure about Kekilli just not being given the right lines to work with ... plus her accent grates even on my fellow-German ears. Good thing Wlaschiha apparently more than makes up for it (especially in the female viewer´s eyes, it seems).

No outrageously stupid stuff like we have had to suffer before. i can live with Cat freeing Jaime before the news of Rickon´s and Bran´s "death", no really that important IMHO.

Bonus points for Oona Chaplin´s ass. Wow. Seriously, wow.

8/10.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Only gave this episode an 8, sadly. Far too much Robb and Talisa, and not enough Dany or Sansa. Personally I don't have a problem with the show's changes to Jeyne... But I do find her interactions with Robb to be, so far, the weakest (by far) part of the show. Talisa will be more interesting in season 3, I expect. Anyway, Robb and Talisa really slowed the episode down for me. They could have spent that time developing Sandor and Sansa in time for their scene at the Blackwater.

I’m sorry that you are upset that the show writers rightly chose to put more emphasis on developing a critical plot element instead of fickle flames of fanficky flibbertidgets. How the King in the North and Ned’s Stark’s heir came to lose is head is only about a vigitillion times more important than some icky and stoopeed Harlequin SanSan romance fantasy. I’d be really unhappy if they’d made the contrary decision.

[CrypticWeirwood]

Points off because of the missing guard and iron coin scene, no "a man has to die now" scene

Impatient, much? Arya gets her coin and Jaqen does his shape-change in the final episode, not in the antepenultimate one. You gotsta save the magic for the end.

Bonus points for Oona Chaplin´s ass. Wow. Seriously, wow. 8/10.

Nice. And welcome to the poohberty channel.

Now, where was that adults-only forum when you need it?

Edited May 21, 2012 by CrypticWeirwood

[PatrickStormborn]

I’m sorry that you are upset that the show writers rightly chose to put more emphasis on developing a critical plot element instead of fickle flames of fanficky flibbertidgets. How the King in the North and Ned’s Stark’s heir came to lose is head is only about a vigitillion times more important than some icky and stoopeed Harlequin SanSan romance fantasy. I’d be really unhappy if they’d made the contrary decision.

What? When did I say that Robb and Talisa was not significant? All I said was that the scenes were awful and go against everything we know about ASOIAF.

Jeyne was just a plot device in the books, and whilst I prefer Talisa by far, I'm not exactly impressed that these awful scenes are taking air-time from other scenes I'd rather be watching. Robb will (most likely) be dead by the end of next season anyway, making Sansa a much, much more significant character. But as I've said, I really wouldn't care that Robb is getting more scenes if they were, you know, actually good.

There's really no need to be rude. I've been a big defender of the show, but I'm not going to lie and pretend that the Robb and Talisa scenes are good when they're by far the weakest part of the show -- I still cringe thinking back to their first scene in episode four.