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How would you rate episode 208?

How would you rate episode 208?  

407 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      5
    • 2
      5
    • 3
      10
    • 4
      14
    • 5
      18
    • 6
      47
    • 7
      89
    • 8
      110
    • 9
      73
    • 10
      36


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Score as a stand-alone TV show:7 .... As an adaptation:5

Ugh... last week I was scared the series was going downhill... after this episode, I'm even more concerned. Again I'll say that it's still a great show (better than most, so I'll continue to support it but the reason I wanted to watch the series was because I love the books/the story arcs/the characters humanity... One of the strongest points of his writing is that the characters motivations were identifiable to readers across the board, whether they be good, bad or ugly... they were human.

The TV show is changing them... sometimes it works (I can see Catelyn releasing Jaime for her girls w/o knowing about her sons... ok, I can deal with that)... but sometimes it doesn't (Tyrion's chain is a physical representation of some of the motivation he has later in the books--its freaking important to the core of the character imo).

So my concern is this --> If the show is (imo) being dumbed down already--wth are they gonna do with ASoS/future books? I don't even want to think about it.

This episode was less enjoyable to me than most, but there were points I really loved... and some I didn't. No question though, it's good TV.

Cons... NO freaking chain...Robb's story altogether... No Weasel Soup... No Arya killing the guard (again, a motivation thing here imo)... Robb/Catelyn *not* finding out about Bran's/Rickon's "death" ... Talisa and all that BS (I can see Robb with Jeyne after being wounded/getting the news of Bran/Rickon--I can NOT see Robb fking up so badly just for a hot girl, even a nice one)...

Dany... Glad they kicked up her story (it needed it) -- but her character, after Drogo died, is a con for me both in the shows/book. However, her need to proclaim she's magic/the dragons are her children... is just as silly as to me as Quaithe's TV mask... both are more powerful w/o saying anything. Viewers aren't morons, we don't need everything spelled out.

I don't mind Sam et al finding the obsidian -- but I do wonder when we're going to get some real focus on the Stark kids' abilities w/their wolves (Jon especially). I don't want it thrown on me in S3/4.. I want a little more build up. Oh yeah and plus... I freaking love Ghost haha--so that may just be my selfish 2cents :-)

Maester L/Osha having tea in the crypts. Hmmm.. glad they're in the crypts... think its ridiculous that he can get in there unseen to have a little chat.

Time/Scene management... Way too much time on Robb/Talisa imo. Seriously, I keep hearing ppl say "D&D can't fit in everything!"... but the reality is that some fabricated scenes are unnecessary and way too long. (Some created scenes are needed/loved the Robert scenes for instance in S1)... but many could be/should be cut.

Pros... The acting overall. These actors are doing a bang-up job... with a few exceptions, the casting is amazing imo!

Jaime: He is doing such a great job in this role. I'm glad we got some extra scenes with him this year.

Asha: I was one of the few ppl who LOVED the casting for Asha/Yara from jump... I feel a little vindicated now cuz the Asha/Theon story is quickly shaping up to be among viewers favorites... In my head, she is giving Asha the perfect vibe...

Stannis/Davos: Wasn't sure about these 2 when cast--but I am quickly becoming a fan of their bro-mance, so to speak.

Theon: What can I say. Last year I wondered if Alfie Allen could pull off Theon in future seasons. I no longer wonder... he is doing so freaking well. His ability to play 'emotionally desperate' is crazy good... he really conveys his naivete/desperation/false tough-guy bit well ..I'd love to see him be up for some awards this year!

Overall... nice TV show but not what I, as a fan of the books, would like to see.

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7/10 for me, and I gave the last two episodes 9s. Basically, in building up for Blackwater, it seems like they're giving that episode all the big climaxes. They could have shifted Qhorin's death to this episode, or Dany 'finding her dragons' to this episode, or Stannis finally approaching the gates. There needed to be a more dynamic shift in the plot because this one just dragged and felt very flat compared to the last two. I thought the series was really shifting up a gear, but nah. I'm sure the next two will lift the excitement levels but this feels like an opportunity lost.

Good stuff: Asha's scene with Theon, Cersei's whore scene (ros wasnt even irritating in it), Stannis and Davos, Talisa's backstory (okay, its not in the books, and yeah, she's absolutely gorgeous, but it was nicely delivered), the short excerpt we got from Jaime and Brienne.

Not so good stuff: Why WAS the Jaime/Brienne excerpt so short? More please, longer scenes. Longer scenes all round, how much cutting do you need? Daenerys wasn't really needed in this episode - that two minute stint was a waste. Also, can they name Roose Bolton by name please? And at least give the brotherhood some screentime? Doesn't need to be long, and they wouldn't need to introduce a multitude of characters necessarily. Weasel soup out is a shame, it's pretty fun in the book if not essential. Whatever way they did it, it's a disappointing end to the Arya in Harrenhal arc I think. All that build up with her hanging round the castle for like four episodes but she then just... walks out? Hmmmmm.

Still a high standard of acting as always blablabla, but this one did not get things moving as well as the last two episodes. Hopefully it's just an interlude, as disappointing as that sounds.

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3/10. I wondered if this was unreasonably harsh so I watched a little of it again after dinner - nope, 3 is about right. Dull episode filled with bad writing and bad decisions. The corresponding parts of the book simply aren't this boring or this silly.

Good: The chemistry between Dinklage and the actress who plays Cersei. I like her Cersei - more than I like the book Cersei. More human, less of a caricature.

Bad: Everything else. Too much to list fully but among other things - I thought the invented Dany story-line was intended to inject a little excitement. Why is nothing happening? If nothing is happening, why take up screen time with her? Can't Catelyn even get the motive of learning that Bran and Rickon are dead before turning Jaime loose? It's almost like the writers knew their attempts to portray the boys as possibly dead in the last episode were so weak that they didn't even bother trying to fool Catelyn. When did Bronn the sellsword from the Vale become an expert on the psychology of cities under seige? Are Rattleshirt and his men all deaf? I know Qhorin is a ranger and not a spymaster, but discussing his secret plan with Jon in a normal tone of voice right in front of Rattleshirt's men before starting his fake fight just doesn't seem meant to convince. Nice scenery, though.

Just a lot of nothing in one of the last episodes of the season. I wouldn't even have minded a dumb sex scene to liven things up - oh wait, we got one of those and got to see what Charlie Chaplin's great-granddaughter's butt looked like (quite nice), and it still didn't help. And I'm trying to keep an open mind about changes from the book but I can't think of any tonight that improved the story-telling in any way.

May I suggest a third rewatch?

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Disagree about Robb and Talisa. The show version to me makes him seem like an even bigger selfish idiot. At least in teh books he was wounded and had just learned about Bran adn Rickon, so it made sense that he succumbed to temptation. Here, he admits he doesn't want to marry a Frey and then just sleeps with her after she tells a long story about her drowning brother.

What gets me is that they still tried to play the "vulnerable/emotionally charged cuz we're talking about the death of a little boy" card.... I mean, wtf?

Why not just go w/the original... Robb is vulnerable (they could leave out the wounded) and she helped him cope w/Bran and Rickon being killed? Why are they changing things for ultimately NO reason?

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Too many scenes that didn't quite work for me, probably most disappointingly Brienne and Jaime, There didn't seem to be any chemistry, Nikolaj seeme to be going through the motions with his delivery. I blame the direction, because Nikolaj has delivered some great lines these past 2 seasons. Though that's their first scene together an perhaps there will be a chance for the chemistry to develop. It's an important relationship for Jaime.

So I guess some Stark loyalists will need to capture Jaime in order for him to lose his hand...or will it be the Brotherhood?

Jaqen and Arya will need to have one more scene, so Arya can unsay his name. I expect we'll see the coin and the face change then...we'd better or Arya's story will go 100% off the tracks. I didn't like the lead up to naming A man for death. It shouldn't have been Jaqen refusing to kill Tywin, regardless of the reason. Arya should have opened with the I need your help line.

I suppose they are rescuing Jon and Qhorin's story arc a bit. I still think it's crazy that Ghost has gone completely AWOL. But I do have a personal need for Qhorin to tell Jon what must be done.

The show also put the brakes on the season, slowing down the pace which didn;t quite work for me.

I did think Tyrion and Cersei worked well, and Theon / Asha was good. We all knew Robb / Talisa was coming so it was what it was. I think they got that entire thing wrong, but the error was in the original decision so what happened this episode is neither good nor bad, it just is the next logical step. Most of what happened in Winterfell was fine. Robb / Catelyn was OK. I do think it was a cop out not showing the manner of the escape, too much suspension of disbelief required to think they could slip out of the camp unnoticed for long enough for them to get a decent head start. I don't know whay they didn't have Jaime's captivity based based at Riverrun, given they marched right past it to get to the Westerlands, it's not like Hoster Tully would ever cave in to promises of gold for Jaime. Bad choice, and I can't think hiring another castle would be more expensive than having it all happen in an encampment.

Great to see Varys back in the picture, and good interactions with Tyrion.

Ros being used as the mistaken whore, expected and played well.

1 1/2 minutes of Dany and nothing really happens, pointless.

I was happy with Stannis and Davos, even though the scene was really only to remind the audience that they're there.

It sounds like I have mostly bad things to say about the show, but overall I still liked it well enough

Time is precious with only 10 episodes per season. I feel somewhat cheated by having "previously on GoT" eating up 2 minutes of airtime. That's 20 minutes of potential extra show content over the season lost from doing previouslies. :-( Not that this is unique to this episode, but I just haven;t felt like expressing it before.

7/10

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3/10. I wondered if this was unreasonably harsh so I watched a little of it again after dinner - nope, 3 is about right. Dull episode filled with bad writing and bad decisions. The corresponding parts of the book simply aren't this boring or this silly. Good: The chemistry between Dinklage and the actress who plays Cersei. I like her Cersei - more than I like the book Cersei. More human, less of a caricature. Bad: Everything else. Too much to list fully but among other things - I thought the invented Dany story-line was intended to inject a little excitement. Why is nothing happening? If nothing is happening, why take up screen time with her? Can't Catelyn even get the motive of learning that Bran and Rickon are dead before turning Jaime loose? It's almost like the writers knew their attempts to portray the boys as possibly dead in the last episode were so weak that they didn't even bother trying to fool Catelyn. When did Bronn the sellsword from the Vale become an expert on the psychology of cities under seige? Are Rattleshirt and his men all deaf? I know Qhorin is a ranger and not a spymaster, but discussing his secret plan with Jon in a normal tone of voice right in front of Rattleshirt's men before starting his fake fight just doesn't seem meant to convince. Nice scenery, though. Just a lot of nothing in one of the last episodes of the season. I wouldn't even have minded a dumb sex scene to liven things up - oh wait, we got one of those and got to see what Charlie Chaplin's great-granddaughter's butt looked like (quite nice), and it still didn't help. And I'm trying to keep an open mind about changes from the book but I can't think of any tonight that improved the story-telling in any way.

#

lol, man, you will never be happy. Just stick to the books and stop watching.

I honestly don't understand people who pick and pull at the episode like you. I am just happy this adaption is being made at all.

Edited by Cellio

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<snip>

We all knew Robb / Talisa was coming so it was what it was. I think they got that entire thing wrong, but the error was in the original decision so what happened this episode is neither good nor bad, it just is the next logical step.

<snip>

You know what... you're 100% right. I'm gonna try to keep this in mind now. It was really irritating to me, the whole thing--but you're right in that the error was with the original decision... all they can do now is go with it and try to make it the best they can while keeping things on track.

I think I will hate it a little less now... lol, thank you :)

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Gave it an 8. It started at a 10:
  • Stannis/Davos, we FINALLY get some good backstory on the whole Onion Knight thing. Thought that exchange was awesome.
  • Tyrion/Cersei stuff was gold, and the Tyrion/Bronn/Varys exchanges were pretty funny.
  • Best episode of the season for Asha/Yara. And as always, Alfie Allen is an amazing Theon and the unexpected highlight of the entire season for me.
  • Bran's look at the end was heartbreaking. :(
  • I love the Brienne/Jaime stuff, great dialogue.
  • I'm still not sure what to make of Talissa, but the Free Cities lore was neat and she is fucking hot.
  • I liked how they brought Quorin back in the storyline, and Rattleshirt looks really, really cool. Liked that Sam found the dragonglass, too.
Points off for three things:
  • Half a point off for the disappointing end to Arya's stay in Harrenhall. I understand that a lot of it isn't vital to the overall plot, but I missed Jaqen's face change, the coin being given, the weasel soup, etc. I noticed episode 10 is caled Valar Morghulis, so hopefully this means we get some of that then.
  • Half a point off for nobody actually learning about Bran and Rickon, particularly Catelyn and Robb. I can still buy that they both did what they did (releasing Jaime and forsaking a vow, respectively), but it took a lot of the emotional punch out of it. I'm honestly not sure why this decision was made, but oh well.
  • The other point off for what I am legitimately pissed about - not revealing Tyrion's plan with the freaking chain! That thing does so much for saving the city, for giving Tyrion the credit he deserves from viewers/readers (but of course not from the citizens of Kings Landing), and there's not even a mention of it. What has he even really done? All I can think of is him taking Cersei's wildfire idea and doing it more, but other than that, nothing. This won't even seem like Tyrion's victory to the viewers! First thing that has really frustrated me during the entire series.

One thing I didn't mention was Dany, and really I'm just meh at this point. Either go to the HotU or don't, but quit building it up so much. It better be really fucking awesome when we finally see it. I did like that Jorah mentioned the ship going to Astapor, but if Dany doesn't go get her stupid dragons next episode, then it'll have to be episode 10, and then she won't have time to meet Barristan at the docks, unless they're saving that for next season.

I agree with this post. With the dissapointments.

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As most weeks will testify, I have been pretty generous with my marks, usually ranging between 6 and 8. Therefore, I consider the following semi-rant to be somewhat justified, and is only partially affected by my bias towards the books.

Firstly, I shall run through the plus points, sparse though they were.

Varys and Tyrion and Cersei. All good, intense scenes. Lovely to see Varys back.

Jaime and Brienne was fun to watch, even if I am seething at the reason he was let go.

Blackwater will I imagine be a spectacle. I am looking forward to it.

Now, my gripes. My general gripe is that not letting people know that Bran and Rickon are "dead" simply doesn't make sense. Why on earth did they keep it out of the plot? Let's put aside book purity here. Both Catelyn abd Robb have been made to look like weak individuals because of B+R's deaths not being revealed. Catelyn's treachery (and it is pretty much safe to call it treachery now) is now barely justifiable.

As for Robb, what can you say? That whole scene I was literally saying aloud "don't do this, this is silly, this is silly, this is pointless". Why would the King in the North spend so much time with this girl? Why would they set up these rubbish one to one scenes? How can they not realise that the death of a young man's brothers would be a far more powerful emotional justification for him to break his solemn vow to the Freys rather than the mewings of an admittedly hot girl? It is just stupid beyond belief, and full of gaping plotholes. I understand a small part of this is based on my love of the books, but in one fell swoop they have simply rendered these characters far less sympathetic, and not more as they were clearly trying to do.

Why on earth would Osha risk being out in the open? Seriously. Another idiotic plot hole. Following that, why would Luwin follow her down there when out of anyone in Winterfell, he is the one Theon would most likely keep the closest guard upon. This is just stupid plotting.

Are the Wildings deaf? If not, how could they not hear Qhorin and Jon talking out loud, in the open?

Daenerys scene was pointless.

Arya's acting ability and characterisation is poorly served by the relative tameness of her escapades.

Perhaps I need to watch it again with a less critical "book-centric" eye, but in all honesty, I don't think it would make a difference. The huge plot holes are not caused by the splits from the book, they are simply being caused by atrocious writing.

A 3.

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Voted 8/10. Well acted as always.

Quite pissed at the lack of Weasel Soup, and no Arya killing the guard. Maybe she'll kill some one next episode, a man can hope.

I did like the Robb/Talisa scene. Some nice acting, but I don't understand why Robb (& Catelyn) haven't found out about Bran and Rickon's "death". That would have made Robb's mistake all the more powerful.

All Tyrion scenes were great, as were those in Winterfell.

It seems a bit stupid for Osha to just walk around in Winterfell, seems way too risky.

The Jon scenes were OK, but we seriously, we need Ghost. He was absent a lot in the book too, but never for this long. They've run out of direwolf CGI money, it seems.

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Gave it an 8. Not a bad episode, just an episode of transition... and we had our first Jaime / Brienne scene, so... and dragonglass !

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10/10. Best of the season so far. I just... wow. Blown away. It was perfect.

"One game at a time, my friend."

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A 7 from me.

Great cast but wheres the fire and I dont mean pig sh*t. They mostly seemed to be going through the motions, Theon excepted, waiting for next week and have most of this season. More excitement (dont confuse this with action) in season 1 IMHO.

I fear the Blackwater will not be the epic we are expecting.

Edited by Ser Graymax

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I've gone with a 7 for this one. There were some very shoddy things -- Osha sneaking around in broad daylight, in the line of sight of Theon and Dagmer was terrible, terrible. I don't understand why Luwin has to know anything, but I have a suspicion that makes me kind of nervous. We'll see. There were other things that just ... don't really work for me. At the same time, all the actors seemed to have brought their A-games this episode, and there were enjoyable flashes of writing (and, at the same time, bits and pieces I don't understand their dropping... I mean:

"Speak the name, and death will come. On the morrow, at the turn of the moon, a year from this day, it will come. A man does not fly like a bird, but one foot moves and then another and one day a man is there, and a king dies." He knelt beside her, so they were face-to-face, "A girl whispers if she fears to speak aloud. Whisper it now. Is it Joffrey?"

Why not keep that? Instead it's something much less poetic and much less vivid. Sometimes they seem to have no poetry in their hearts.)

Anyways, 7, I think. I wish it had been an 8, but it still seems to me that they're picked a few wrong choices in what to cut and what to keep.

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8/10, solid but unspectacular. In fact this is the first episode I can remember in the series without any "big" moments to speak of, and some key elements were obviously left out or put off until later. But what was done, was done very well. As others have pointed out, this is generally a slow part of the book so a slower episode could be expected.

- I've finally warmed all the way up to Robb/Talisa, even acknowledging the possibility that she is who she says she is. The two have developed great chemistry and the love scene was the, erm, hottest in the series thus far by a wide margin. Their dialogue leading up to the lovemaking was excellent as well. This is a deviation from the books I can live with.

- Asha/Theon was brilliantly played, and adds yet more layers of depth to Theon's story.

- I'm fine with Catelyn's reasoning for releasing Jaime vs. what happened in the book. All her children in danger/captivity + Jaime's life threatened = use her only bargaining chip while she could. To me it made just as much sense as the book version.

- Brienne and Jaime's interaction was entertaining and captured the spirit of their early banter in ASOS (although I was waiting for him to drop "wench" on her at least once!).

- All the stuff north of the Wall was great, a contrast (IMO) to last week's overlong, aimless time wasting. Rattleshirt rocked it. Qorin and Jon's interactions, however brief, were spot on with the spirit of the book. It appears we'll get our pivotal scene after all. Though I must be the umpteenth to ask - where is Ghost? I'm hoping he'll at least show up to help Jon in the duel with Qorin. Sam and Grenn finding the dragonglass cache was cool as hell - loved the stone with the cryptic First Men writing.

- Arya's story was...ok. I can live with no weasel soup. I CANNOT live with no iron coin, face changing or valar morghulis. Hopefully Jaqen will catch up with them down the road and we'll get that scene. And yes, it's too bad Arya didn't get her first kill with the guardsman. They're obviously taking a more subtle approach with her descent into cold blooded assassin mode. Maybe their approach works better for TV.

- The KL stuff was fun, Tyrion/Bronn especially. Tyrion/Cersei/Ros was excellent, and Tyrion/Shae was touching and very believable. Dinklage is a brilliant actor.

- Not sure why the Dany/Jorah scene was even included; as brief as it was it just felt like filler. I guess I was more disappointed that HotU didn't happen in this episode. Hopefully that means the scene will be epic and will need a lot of screen time. Fingers crossed.

- The final reveal was very anticlimactic; I would have much preferred we not find out until episode 10 that Bran and Rickon were still alive. The scene itself felt a bit clumsy too, not a big fan of Luwin just moseying down into the crypts to talk to Osha - it makes the notion they could all hide down there less believable.

Blackwater looks epic and I cannot wait.

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A solid seven. This one seemed to me like when the sea drains away before the tsunami hits the coast. Next week comes the bang. Merciful Gods, let it be a loud bang.

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I gave it a 6. Would have been a 7 but I really wanted to see Arya kill the guard in cold blood as I think it's a defining character moment for her. Feels like they chose the safe route. And I'm not usually one to complain about differences from the books.

Good stuff:

- Varys, and lots of him! That last scene with Tyrion was great.

- Stannis!

- The Winterfell storyline continues to be great, and nice to see Yara again.

- The guy that plays Roose is great and I fist-pump at every mention of his bastard.

- I think we all saw the Ros/Shae thing coming, but it was still a decent idea.

- Good that we're still getting scenes with the rest of the Night's Watch. I think that means we'll end the season on the three horns.

- The rest of the Harrenhal stuff was fine.

- Jaime/Brienne, hells yeah. Also liked Robb arresting Cat.

Bad stuff:

- Talisa's story seemed to go on for way too long.

- Shae is such a crappy actress.

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As for Robb, what can you say? That whole scene I was literally saying aloud "don't do this, this is silly, this is silly, this is pointless". Why would the King in the North spend so much time with this girl? Why would they set up these rubbish one to one scenes? How can they not realise that the death of a young man's brothers would be a far more powerful emotional justification for him to break his solemn vow to the Freys rather than the mewings of an admittedly hot girl?

I am not sure which book, or which show you watched but Robb never made a "solemn vow", he was told he would marry a Frey, if you rewatch the episode from season 1 it looks like he just sucked a lemon when he is told what the price of crossing the bridge is. He didn't like it then, he doesn't like the idea of some nameless faceless Frey as a wife and he is more than aware that the Late lord Frey is simply working to upjump his station by marrying off one of his eleventy bazzillion grand kids to a great lord.

The entire north and the riverlands are aware that Walder Frey is a self centered old coot with more progeny than he can hope to marry off. Robb the lord of WInterfell didn't want to marry into that, nor does Robb the king.

Talasia works just as well for me as does Jeyne, she is a noble, she is compassionate, she to Robb's mind is not just out to get a position in court or a pawn for her dodgey old lecherous grandfathers way to increase his standing. In fact I like the way they are playing it out. I hated that in the books GRRM just pops a bride on everyone, I thought it was a crappy way to reveal it, totally off camera and basically unexplained, at least in the series you see a woman that shows up, cares for the wounded, has a back story that shows why she would care for the wounded, and is hot enough to make the blood of a male boil if he was presented with some alone time and an untennable marriage situation.

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