Currawong Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yes, but you got a pretty good impression of how important fighting was to him from his conversation with Alton, though it seems many people didn't 'listen' to what was being said, and just dismissed that bit as needless time-wasting. There is still the opportunity for the J/B swordfight, and plenty of time for more dialogue. But frankly, if viewers haven't got the idea of Badass Fighter Jaime by now, then tough luck - perhaps they should go back to the Wiggles.It is highly amusing to find that on the one hand we have so many people griping and complaining bitterly about the show deviating from the books, and yet when the show DOES follow the books, as in this case, there are also complaints. Obviously the writers cannot win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I would have liked to see the escape scene the way GRRM wrote it. Tyrion was behind that plan and Jaime was fighting armed guards of the opposing side (and at one point grabbed a sword), not his cousin. As much as I liked the scene in this episode (I also agree, it would have been better sans armor) I am worried what they will do next. Brienne silences Jaime. Hopefully we get mud wrestling and he yields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchface12 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 If she silences him by cutting off his sword hand, I will give serious thought to not bothering with the next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Octarina Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 So far as Jaime's dehanding goes, I think the best they could do is have Vargo Hoat do the dehanding, but bring him to one of the Freys in the Riverlands. They are about to royally screw Robb over, so they might as well develop them. The BwB makes sense in a contrived sort of way, but them hanging Jaime on the spot would be more likely and I don't see them just letting him go. Then again, I didn't see Jaime murdering one of his relatives, but that didn't stop them from writing it in. :agree:The Brotherhood under Beric was not cruel, not like the Brave Companions at least. It would make the change they go through after Beric's final death and Uncat's appearance much less dramatic, it wouldn't really make much sense, especially because we're supposed to sympathize with them on some level. Also, it would make the BwB's encounter with Arya and her gang a little more complicated; imagine how pathetic it would be if there's only one episode between Jaime and Brienne's escape and Arya's appearance! Not to mention that, well, how would a recently crippled man manage to escape dozens of outlaws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchface12 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 :agree: The Brotherhood under Beric was not cruel, not like the Brave Companions at least. It would make the change they go through after Beric's final death and Uncat's appearance much less dramatic, it wouldn't really make much sense, especially because we're supposed to sympathize with them on some level. Also, it would make the BwB's encounter with Arya and her gang a little more complicated; imagine how pathetic it would be if there's only one episode between Jaime and Brienne's escape and Arya's appearance! Not to mention that, well, how would a recently crippled man manage to escape dozens of outlaws? I agree 100%. Its implausible. But then again, why was the heir to Karhold doing a common soldier's job?If they're going to bring Jaime and Brienne to a Frey (prolly garrisoned at Maidenpool) I thought maybe Merret would be best. He and Jaime knew each other as kids and 2 of his daughters and his son become important to the plot. If its Merret in charge, I assume it would be some menial task he was given, esp since D & D have moved most action away from the Riverlands this season, plus its Merret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickon is FIERCE Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This guy lives to kill, and we need to see that. We get only a glimpse when he fights Ned.The show would benefit greatly from having Jamie display some combat mastery, and the joy he gets from killing people. We need to be shown that this guy is badass with a sword and that his skill makes him who he is, or the loss of his hand doesn't have as much meaning. This is a flaw in the novels that I hope the show has the wisdom to correct. Once his hand is gone, there's no going back.I have to disagree by distinguishing between "killing" and "fighting." This was, I think, an error in characterization on the part of HBO. Jaime loves to fight- with a sword- because he's gifted at it. He's a swordsman, not a killer. It's the swordplay he loves, that makes him feel alive, not the fact of a kill, per se. There is a difference (though the ends are the same). I do think that scene with Ned was good b/c the audience did need to see this paragon of swordplay badassery in action at least once, but you see how pissed he got when one of his men ended the fight early. He could have finished Ned off right there and got off on the killing, but all the fun was taken out of it because it was no longer a challenge to his abilities as a swordsman. This distinction is why I didn't care for the Alton killing. And also why the loss of his hand is so devastating. If the fact of killing were all there was to it, well, there are many ways to kill other than with a sword. One can bash another man's head in with a rock with either hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currawong Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I have to disagree by distinguishing between "killing" and "fighting." This was, I think, an error in characterization on the part of HBO. Jaime loves to fight- with a sword- because he's gifted at it. He's a swordsman, not a killer. It's the swordplay he loves, that makes him feel alive, not the fact of a kill, per se. There is a difference (though the ends are the same). I do think that scene with Ned was good b/c the audience did need to see this paragon of swordplay badassery in action at least once, but you see how pissed he got when one of his men ended the fight early. He could have finished Ned off right there and got off on the killing, but all the fun was taken out of it because it was no longer a challenge to his abilities as a swordsman. This distinction is why I didn't care for the Alton killing. And also why the loss of his hand is so devastating. If the fact of killing were all there was to it, well, there are many ways to kill other than with a sword. One can bash another man's head in with a rock with either hand. :agree:Jaime loves the actual fighting, and also all that goes with it in tournaments etc. That was what he was describing to Alton, especially where he spoke of how dreams and reality became one, I thought his dialogue in the Alton scene was wonderful, but like you, I disagreed with him actually killing this distant relative kid who'd worshipped him. @ Le Cygne. They couldn't do the escape attempt as in the book, because Jaime was being held in cages at camps, not in the castle at Riverrun. Once they decided not to show the various Riverrun scenes, the GRRM escape also went out the window. @ Patchface12 - why would they take them all the way to a Frey at Maidenpool, miles away across on the coast? The J/B trip, including the capture, takes place in the Riverlands. No, we haven't seen Riverrun or the Tullys, but we have seen both Harrenhal and Roose Bolton, and we've also seen Tywin and his troops leave Harrenhal to rush across to KL. Thats important, because several critical scenes in the J/B story during ASOS take place in Harrenhal - the bath scene, the bear pit and Jaime's rescue, and it's on the way from Harrenhal to KL after the rescue that they get the news of the RW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katydid Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 If she silences him by cutting off his sword hand, I will give serious thought to not bothering with the next season. I wouldn't have to give it any thought. If the producers were dumb enough as to take their creative liberties THAT idiotically off the charts? Yeah, they'd lose me completely.As mentioned elsewhere, it would utterly ruin the J/B dynamic. How could Jaime come to respect and care for Brienne if she were the one to take his hand? Why would he bother saving her from being raped/a bear if she were the cause of his ultimate misery?Never gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchface12 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think its safe to say the bear's out, and where-ever Jaime and Brienne are taken won't be Harrenhal since Gregor holds it.I said Maidenpool because Jaime and Brienne were captured in sight of the castle. Also, Arya lying she's from Maidenpool before Tywin caught her makes me wonder if the producers have plans for the place prior to its importance in Feast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolene Brown Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 There is plenty of time for someone else (perhaps Roose) to take over Harrenhal before Jaime/Brienne are captured. I think they will end up at Harrenhal, for the practical reason that they have a nice looking set, and why not use it? They're done with the Tywin/arya stuff there, now they can use it for Jaime/Brienne. I have stated my hatred for the Talisa storyline many times, so I won't re-iterate it here, but one good thing they could do with it is use it as a catalyst for sending Roose away - he is annoyed about the relationship, Robb doesn't like it, and sends him off to take Harrenhall. In Season 3, he flips Rorge/Biter/their new leader, takes Harrenhall from Clegane, and sends Rorge/Biter/their new leader out to look for Jaime. Then Roger or Biter or even Zollo himself (why not use their old Dothraki costumes!) will cut off Jaime's hand. I think they will save that for Season 3 so there's no reason to think it has to happen with the players now on the canvas or the situation as it is . There will be new characters and new set-ups for season 3. The Lannister/Tyrell victory at Blackwater will change allegiances and move people around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currawong Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I think its safe to say the bear's out,You have inside knowledge of this? They can CGI direwolves, they can CGI a bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerMixalot Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 The Clegane idea has potential but that would cause a lot of problems down the line as Tywin continues to make use of him. I can't see it. i was making a bad joke! :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulled Wino Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I have to disagree by distinguishing between "killing" and "fighting." This was, I think, an error in characterization on the part of HBO. Jaime loves to fight- with a sword- because he's gifted at it. He's a swordsman, not a killer. It's the swordplay he loves, that makes him feel alive, not the fact of a kill, per se. There is a difference (though the ends are the same). I do think that scene with Ned was good b/c the audience did need to see this paragon of swordplay badassery in action at least once, but you see how pissed he got when one of his men ended the fight early. He could have finished Ned off right there and got off on the killing, but all the fun was taken out of it because it was no longer a challenge to his abilities as a swordsman. This distinction is why I didn't care for the Alton killing. And also why the loss of his hand is so devastating. If the fact of killing were all there was to it, well, there are many ways to kill other than with a sword. One can bash another man's head in with a rock with either hand. This is some serious hair splitting. He smashes that one guy in the bear pit that talks about BRienne. he thinks to himself "I want to FIGHT", not "I want to fence"...oh and that one little thing with that kid in the tower in the north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickon is FIERCE Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 This is some serious hair splitting. He smashes that one guy in the bear pit that talks about BRienne. he thinks to himself "I want to FIGHT", not "I want to fence"...True, it's a fine line, as I said, the end result is the same. But if the killing were the thing, I'd see him more likely to idolize the Hound than someone like the Sword of the Morning, Selmy, etc. Killing by swordplay is what he lives for. That and Cersei. Which leads to...oh and that one little thing with that kid in the tower in the north. "The things I do for love.." He did that for Cersei and their "life" together, not because he just thought it'd be fun to chuck a kid out the window to his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eggplant Wizard Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Sadly, I predict "Brienne silencing Jaime" will be another case of making Jaime seem less skilled than he should be in order to build up some other character. We saw Ned go toe to toe with him which wouldn't have happened in the books. We saw Jaime act afraid of the direwolf despite the books explicitly saying he isn't afraid to die. And on and on... Poor Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
summer_stark Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 this isn't exactly on point, but i was reading tv w/o pity (the board for non-readers -- which i love, although sometimes i get the feeling that some book-reading asshats are posting on the site based on the absurdly on point predictions. anyway, after jaime's reappearance, the general consensus is - "yay! jaime's back! we love jaime!" not a complete love -- more like a -- he's so funny and honest -- love. nothing like the hatred for theon/joffrey -- people are stoked he's back. almost no one cared that he killed his cousin. very interesting and makes me have a little more faith in d&d's vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Snow Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Its a testament to how well NCW plays him. He is by FAR, even more than Tyrion, the most charasmatic guy on the show, even though almost everything he has ever said should make him come off total jerk. I mean everyone like Brienne but you can't help laugh when he says something to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkWard Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Far from the silencing topic, but if it's not the Brave Companions that will take Jaime's hand (given their lack of setup/introduction), does that mean there will be no bear pit? Me loves bear pit! And Brienne in a dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maria underfoot Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 That scene was the best of the episode!! When Nikolaj said "horses?", I couldn't stop laughing... His insolent little laugh and Brienne's awkwardness were ideal, exactly how i pictured them.A bit off the topic, I think there must be a bear pit..... Showing Jaime as fun and all is great, but he also needs to appear more human, more "honorable" (not quite the word :P), more capable of caring about someone other than himself or Cersei. Saving Brienne was not only an awesome scene, but also a big step in his redemption, as well as a step in their relationship. I'm sure George won't ket them cut it out...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Shit, whenever I play Skyrim and I'm swimming around in my heavy armour I'm like "this is so unrealistic" :PI feel stupid. That never occurred to me playing the game!It's the glass and weaponry that I always find amusing. :) But wasn't Brienne still pretty heavily armoured at this point in the book? The only difference being them both being in a much bigger boat. Meh. Only the tiniest of quibbles that. So long as he calls her "wench" and we carry on seeing some of this hilarious banter, I'll be pleased.From the looks of it the Jaime and Brienne scenes are going to be one of the great highlights of Season 3.Edit: Also they can quite easily adapt the story so that Roose is sent towards Harrenhal, has hired mercenaries that capture Jaime and Brienne and bring them back to camp. I don't even mind if they ditch the bear in favour of Brienne in some sort of unfair fight and Jaime coming back to rescue her. Given the depressing potential of Tyrion and Dany's storylines in seasons 5 and 6, Jaime's and Brienne's prominence in those seasons should be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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