[book spoilers] ARYA. discuss.

[boojam]

She's not just a survivor, she's a stone cold killer with no fear. Witness her eating the wormed apple without even noticing, her killing of Dareon (that wasn't about survival), her figuring out how to kill the merchant

The killing of Dareon comes much much later, and an odd touch by GRRM...

but while in Westeros she is not a sociopath ... who seem to populate GRRM's books without number.

Every thing that happens to her in Westeros is tied to survival.

[boojam]

Well, the insurance guy was a contract hit.

A bank and an insurance agent, how many fantasy novels have those?

This brings up a complaint of mine. I see the , often, reviews in the media referring to Jaqen as a high paid assassin.

We know that the FM are so much more than that.

In fact the killing of the insurance agent (which by the by was clever trick on Arya's part)... did not seem to be for money, as I remember.

If I remember correctly a FM contract has to involve more than money.

The FM have to have ,also, some enigmatic motivation. Jaqen does his for Arya, not for money, but for a philosophical(?)principal, I hesitate to call it religious, since the FM have one hell of a strange and inscrutable 'religion'.

[SerMixalot]

You really dont remember when arya "rescues" the northmen from the dungeon in harranhal and they take the castle for roose?

actually her role was generally passive beyond getting JH to do the deed

[SerMixalot]

Well, the insurance guy was a contract hit. The guard was to save her and her friends lives. Dont seem out of place with lots of oter deaths in the books. Especially the red wedding massacre or frey pies.

Certainly, but for a series that seems to acknowledge real life effects on people who do bad things. It is odd that this child shows no remorse, guilt or stress over cold blooded murder. And if that is intentional, it is indicates Arya's character is a monster.

I do find that Arya's chapters have a unique writing style that often shows he is writing about a child, shorter sentances, more rapid and less complex characterizations. They seem to have their own voice.

[SerMixalot]

A bank and an insurance agent, how many fantasy novels have those?

This brings up a complaint of mine. I see the , often, reviews in the media referring to Jaqen as a high paid assassin.

We know that the FM are so much more than that.

In fact the killing of the insurance agent (which by the by was clever trick on Arya's part)... did not seem to be for money, as I remember.

If I remember correctly a FM contract has to involve more than money.

The FM have to have ,also, some enigmatic motivation. Jaqen does his for Arya, not for money, but for a philosophical(?)principal, I hesitate to call it religious, since the FM have one hell of a strange and inscrutable 'religion'.

WRT to the insurance agent. I thought it awesome that GRRM would add such detail to his setting. Assuming that they did have such things in the medieval world, which I have no idea whether there were or not.

[Mulled Wino]

A bank and an insurance agent, how many fantasy novels have those?

This brings up a complaint of mine. I see the , often, reviews in the media referring to Jaqen as a high paid assassin.

We know that the FM are so much more than that.

In fact the killing of the insurance agent (which by the by was clever trick on Arya's part)... did not seem to be for money, as I remember.

If I remember correctly a FM contract has to involve more than money.

The FM have to have ,also, some enigmatic motivation. Jaqen does his for Arya, not for money, but for a philosophical(?)principal, I hesitate to call it religious, since the FM have one hell of a strange and inscrutable 'religion'.

Lol, more brilliance from George.

Seems like the insurance thing was fairly popular in the free cities. There was mention of someone else in DwD who was in the insurance biz.

Yes, The FM dont just kill for x doller amount, it's like they perform a spiritual reckoning.

[Mulled Wino]

actually her role was generally passive beyond getting JH to do the deed

She was the orchastrator. She made it happen.

[Mulled Wino]

Certainly, but for a series that seems to acknowledge real life effects on people who do bad things. It is odd that this child shows no remorse, guilt or stress over cold blooded murder. And if that is intentional, it is indicates Arya's character is a monster.

I do find that Arya's chapters have a unique writing style that often shows he is writing about a child, shorter sentances, more rapid and less complex characterizations. They seem to have their own voice.

Same as Jamie Lannister.

I would agree that Arya is a monster (and I love it). The reason Arya is my favorite character is we are privy to the creation of a monster from the cradle to the grave (im assuming). Everything about her is brutal and we get to see the softness ripped out of her by the tragedies and hardships in her life, yet she bounces back with singular determination. I dont find her lack of remorse odd because i understand her.

[Gogossos]

I certainly hate to call her a monster. In a world where boys grow up idolising fighters, killers and society deeming it honourable to join one of these, it seems that Arya might be the odd one out because she is a girl. The FM are skilled assassins and Arya is joining them. That doesn't make her a monster in my book, considering the world she inhabits. What we might accuse her of is having less honour that Ned, Robb and indeed Jon and I think I can defend her somewhat in that also.

[Mulled Wino]

I certainly hate to call her a monster. In a world where boys grow up idolising fighters, killers and society deeming it honourable to join one of these, it seems that Arya might be the odd one out because she is a girl. The FM are skilled assassins and Arya is joining them. That doesn't make her a monster in my book, considering the world she inhabits. What we might accuse her of is having less honour that Ned, Robb and indeed Jon and I think I can defend her somewhat in that also.

Depends on your definition of monster and the stigma you associate with that definition.

I dont think monster always carries negative connotations.

[boojam]

I certainly hate to call her a monster. In a world where boys grow up idolising fighters, killers and society deeming it honourable to join one of these, it seems that Arya might be the odd one out because she is a girl. The FM are skilled assassins and Arya is joining them. That doesn't make her a monster in my book, considering the world she inhabits. What we might accuse her of is having less honour that Ned, Robb and indeed Jon and I think I can defend her somewhat in that also.

Remember Brienne is one of the 'boys' too, seems we need a better word than monster. I would not call Lisbeth Salander a monster either, or Matt Dillon ... being a hard edge because of circumstances must have a better characterization.

Again, the FM are a whole lot more than just skilled assassins , as we find out later.

[Mulled Wino]

I certainly hate to call her a monster. In a world where boys grow up idolising fighters, killers and society deeming it honourable to join one of these, it seems that Arya might be the odd one out because she is a girl. The FM are skilled assassins and Arya is joining them. That doesn't make her a monster in my book, considering the world she inhabits. What we might accuse her of is having less honour that Ned, Robb and indeed Jon and I think I can defend her somewhat in that also.

By the way, i agree with your post completely. Some people may call her character traits monstrous. I wouldnt argue that, nor defend her is someone says she's cold blooded and a killer. I fucking love that about her and I think she commands respect because she earned it.

[SerMixalot]

arya is ned starks daughter. NS certainly bore the burden of killing. It is natural to compare that to his other children. S, B&R havent killed anyone yet, Robb is too one dimensional, though killing Karstark was very difficult for him. Jon certainly had an issue over killing Ygritte (I will have to give more thought to his other kills, Orell, Slynt, etc). But Arya does not seem phased in the least for what certainly is the most cold blooded. Certainly that is intentional of GRRM to present her thisway. Which raises the question to my mind of whether Arya is a villian or not.

[Mulled Wino]

arya is ned starks daughter. NS certainly bore the burden of killing. It is natural to compare that to his other children. S, B&R havent killed anyone yet, Robb is too one dimensional, though killing Karstark was very difficult for him. Jon certainly had an issue over killing Ygritte (I will have to give more thought to his other kills, Orell, Slynt, etc). But Arya does not seem phased in the least for what certainly is the most cold blooded. Certainly that is intentional of GRRM to present her thisway. Which raises the question to my mind of whether Arya is a villian or not.

but ever other stark/snow child has had different external influences than arya.... She's a product of a completely different environment. And she's stayed true to her roots throughout everything.

[lomiller]

But Arya does not seem phased in the least for what certainly is the most cold blooded.

She went though all kinds of rationalizations about why the insurance salesman was probably someone evil who deserved to die. She may have taken the actual killing in stride as she does almost anything but if anything she thinks more about why people should live/die than any other PoV character. At one point (before the RW) she was worried that her family would not want her back because she had killed people.

[Marjie Eilie Myatt]

Wait. Who is the insurance man?

[ARYa_Nym]

I think Arya felt bad about the killing but at the same time she's very desensitized at this point.

"Have you killed anyone?" That seemed to startle him. "I'm only twelve." I killed a boy when I was eight, Arya almost said but she thougth she'd better not. "You've been in battles, though." "Yes." He did not sound very proud of it...Arya was remembering the stableboy at King's Landing. After him there'd been that guard whose throat she cut at Harrenhal, and Ser Armory's men at that holdfast by the lake. She didn't know if Weese and Chiswyck counted, or the ones who'd died on account of the weasel soup...all of a sudden, she felt very sad."

[boojam]

Wait. Who is the insurance man?

It does say spoilers on this thread. That is way later in Arya's story if you have not read the books.

If the show gets that far it may be a sequence that's cut.

Nothing but a pick pocket's cut purse tool and a coin, leading to psychological trauma. Quite clever.

An insurance salesman in a fantasy novel, that takes the cake!

[Mulled Wino]

Wait. Who is the insurance man?

Edited, defer to superior answer by boojam.

[Bee Diddie]

Reading this thread it is easy to see how Arya can be viewed as a psycho, but I never truly got a sense of that when reading her POV. She's an eleven year old girl thrown into a bad situation and she's a survivor and a Stark, the blood of the first men is strong in her.

I am re-reading the books now, and her inner narrative doesn't describe someone without remorse, in my humble opinion. In aSoS she misses Hot Pie, even though she admits he was weak and thoroughly useless, she doesn't want to tell the things she's done to someone who she associates with her father because she can't bare for the late Lord Eddard to know. Even later in aDwD I never got the sense she was a cold killer, only that she wants the learn the skills she needs to exact vengeance from the people responsible for destroying the life she knew.