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summer_stark

[book spoilers] ARYA. discuss.

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Having 10 one hours episodes explains all this, think this through again.

Well, no. In fairness to him and in terms of this thread topic - Ayras storyline will have had enough allotted screen time this season to tell a much more faithful and coherant story concerning her arc. Whats the betting they her on a cliff hanger this season, being caught by the brotherhood?

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i never understood why in the book she took hot pie with her.

I suppose its cause she had to get food from him and couldnt trust him to keep his mouth shut

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Maybe they're leaving something like weasel soup etc for next seasons - otherwise, what will Arya do for 2 seasons (aSoS)??

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i never understood why in the book she took hot pie with her. I suppose its cause she had to get food from him and couldnt trust him to keep his mouth shut

The food, and she'd secretly grown fond of the useless craven.

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The food, and she'd secretly grown fond of the useless craven.

I think she was still into the idea of finding "her pack." That's what she wanted from Gendry and Hot Pie. When they decide to stay with various members of the BWB, she feels abandoned and hurt because she realized they never actually were part of her pack after all. Poor Arya.

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he gives us no explanation. the book doesn't either -- but time is not of the essence with arya's book kills, so it doesn't matter -- he merely says that they will die sometime both on the show and in the books, not that it is impossible to effect a quick kill -- and the fact that he has already disproved this fact by killing amory on the spot takes away from the argument that he couldnt do it right away. he is a bamf -- that's what we're supposed to get from him.

Well you quoted it:

"jaqen: min hr month. death is certain time is not."

Arya wanted now, and Jaqen can't teleport. He never said he would not , in fact he says he can and will, unless 'death is certain' means something else.

He can't meet her conditional.

So she asks for the next best thing, but has to trick him.

By the by staying at Harrenhal with the Mountain in charge sounds worse to me than having Vargo left in charge as in the book.

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Maybe they're leaving something like weasel soup etc for next seasons - otherwise, what will Arya do for 2 seasons (aSoS)??

In SoS things are kind of a traveloge , with some mild adventure, even the meeting with Lord Beric is not exactly riveting. Tho for a reader it's interesting. Then we get 'travels with the dog', and that IS interesting , gee hope they do the tavern fight to make up for Weasel Soup.

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Well you quoted it: "jaqen: min hr month. death is certain time is not." Arya wanted now, and Jaqen can't teleport. He never said he would not , in fact he says he can and will, unless 'death is certain' means something else. He can't meet her conditional. So she asks for the next best thing, but has to trick him. By the by staying at Harrenhal with the Mountain in charge sounds worse to me than having Vargo left in charge as in the book.

boojam -- i feel like we do not understand each other. at all. i don't know why exactly. i can't tell if it's different perspectives, or literally we can't tell what the other person is really getting at. either way, i disagree with your post, and the reason why is the conversation they had when she wanted amory lorch dead.

Arya: Amory Lorch.

Jaqen: A girl has named a second name. A man will do what must be done.

Arya: NOW!

Jaqen: A girl cannot tell a man when exactly he must do a thing. A man cannot make a thing happen before it's time.

how, exactly, is that different from what he says in this episodes conversation? basically, it's the same, but last time he said ok, this time he said i cant do it right now. the whole min. hr. month thing is his general view on how death wishes work -- as he implied during the amory lorch conversation -- so my point is, if that was the reason -- that it couldnt be done now -- then he should have said why -- and it couldn't have hinged on the hr min month theory b/c amory's didn't either.

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also re: the mountain in charge vs. hoat -- that's the book reader's perspective -- my point was that hot pie does not feel that this is a problem for him -- he wants to stay in the kitchens and cook. he's given no indication of being afraid. whether the viewer/reader thinks the mountain is a worse choice is irrelevant to hot pie's decision to leave w/arya in the show -- especially considering the viewer is not shown a worse harrenhal under the mtn.

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Biter and Rorge? They had seem to vanish. Tho in the book , I think it's Rorge, at the slightest mention of Jaqen's name he cowers away from Arya... D&D did not follow up on that.

agreed. it's the combination of the vast amount of "little" things like this that make me believe that the writers are giving us what they think is their better version of the series, because they've left out(or completely changed) the feeling that the books give.

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a small point but arya, gendry and hot pie leaving Harrenhall without horses?!?

gonna be a long walk or a really short one when gregor catches up with the 3 for killing half his garrison

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OK this is how I view it. Essentially the writers and the actors had so much fun with the Arya/Tywin dynamic, we got them 3 episodes in a row and they advanced nothing, except maybe for some exposition. On their own, I love those scenes too and I wish Maise gets an Emmy nomination for them coz she deserves it, going toe to toe with Charles Dance.

But for Arya's character growth and path, only one episode with 3 of those scenes would've sufficed. Using the same screen time Arya actually got, I would have shifted one of the torture scenes to Arya in the kitchens, working hard like a commoner. Then Tywin arrives, notices her and makes her his cupbearer. We get those awesome exposition things we got, minus the Littlefinger diversion whose screen time is then used for the weasel soup. As for the kills, I wouldn't have changed much of the first two, only that Amory doesn't die in front of Tywin because that raises unnecessary questions.

We didn't necessarily need the northman captured for the weasel soup, the same random prisoners from earlier in the season would do. So, as far as I can tell, they changed Arya's Harrenhal set up partly because it was cheaper (one room set with a table and chairs) and also because they had too much fun with Maisie/Charles's chemistry. I have to repeat that I loved the Arya/Tywin dynamic too but ultimately it added little to the show while removing the weasel soup. The other thing is I have to wonder whether there are age restriction rules about portraying how dark such a young character can be.

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boojam -- i feel like we do not understand each other. at all. i don't know why exactly. i can't tell if it's different perspectives, or literally we can't tell what the other person is really getting at. either way, i disagree with your post, and the reason why is the conversation they had when she wanted amory lorch dead.

Arya: Amory Lorch.

Jaqen: A girl has named a second name. A man will do what must be done.

Arya: NOW!

Jaqen: A girl cannot tell a man when exactly he must do a thing. A man cannot make a thing happen before it's time.

how, exactly, is that different from what he says in this episodes conversation? basically, it's the same, but last time he said ok, this time he said i cant do it right now. the whole min. hr. month thing is his general view on how death wishes work -- as he implied during the amory lorch conversation -- so my point is, if that was the reason -- that it couldnt be done now -- then he should have said why -- and it couldn't have hinged on the hr min month theory b/c amory's didn't either.

Well I think that's up to D&D's teleplay writing.

In Lorch's case Jaqen saw it was very difficult, but he could do it, in a matter of seconds it seems, and too Jaqen didn't seem to happy about it.

I suppose Arya could have demanded that Jaqen kill Tywin, even it took years...

One think left out that is in the book was that Jaqen could not stick around any longer and need to be on his way. Even then it seemed that George had him thinking that Arya would again name someone trivial when when she had something more elaborate in mind , namely Weasel Soup. I am guessing that in the writing D&D had this in their minds ... so it slips through.

The saying 'why' is contained in Jaqen's explanation of the difference between death and time , but has to be puzzled out. D&D seem to struggle with their condensations a lot of times this season.

Not everything is to be taken as literal with their teleplay writing.

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The math is all wrong, and it irks me. The red god or the cult of the FM or whatever seems so strict and disciplined. Arya saved three men from the burning barn, thus cheating death. So three deaths have to be made instead. Well, after Amory Lorch is killed, at least 20 other people are hanged. This is Arya's fault and she doesn't even show any remorse; there's no sympathy for a bunch of extras. Not even the audience gives a hoot about them. And then Jaqen kills several more guards to help them escape.

It doesn't make sense, or it's inconsistent anyway.

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um so no weasel soup -- like i predicted. use of the third name to help her escape instead of having her kill the guard and get the coin. no coin (yet, still holding out hope for the last episode)

In one of the interviews after filming was completed Maisie Williams was asked about her favorite scene, and she says it's the one where she gets the coin, so she does get it this season.

Not killing the guard is a problem IMO, more so than no weasel soup or not killing anyone in the battle because it was her first premeditated kill. It's the first time she has time to think through the fact she's going to kill someone, what that means and then goes ahead and does it. Perhaps we will still get something like that with her killing Polliver. It would be problematic for the TV series for her not to get Needle back this season IMO, so killing Polliver could cover both points.

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a small point but arya, gendry and hot pie leaving Harrenhall without horses?!?

gonna be a long walk or a really short one when gregor catches up with the 3 for killing half his garrison

It's not a problem. Winterfell is one or two days tops on foot.

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I have the benefit of being a huge fan of The Walking Dead comic book, and have seen how bad TV can change the original story. Trust me when I tell you, WE ARE GETTING OFF EASY. I consider the TV story of Arya a bit of a trade off...while some details are changed, we do get a few excellent scenes between her and Big Daddy Lannister, and IMHO, that's some great TV watchin' my friends.

I am a bit of a johnny-come-lately to Westeros, having watched Khal Drogo say "Crown for a King!" and dumping the molten gold on the begger king. At that moment I knew I had to purchase the book...and to my utter delight...there were four of em!

Anyway, i have resigned myself that the book is the book and the TV series is the series. We can only hope they get the best parts right.

If they pull a Walking Dead...I'm out.

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The other thing is I have to wonder whether there are age restriction rules about portraying how dark such a young character can be.

If you've seen the 4th and 5th seasons of The Wire, you'd see there is really no limit to the horrible acts HBO can made their child characters commit.

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Jaqen is a beast. How did he manage to lift that guard up and nail him?

As for the iron coin, perhaps we'll see it in 'valar morghulis'. The title really hints at that scene.

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