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summer_stark

[book spoilers] ARYA. discuss.

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I have to believe they will have Arya commit a cold blooded murder and get the coin. My concern is that it will either be very contrived or be less that cold blooded. I cant imagine a scenario where someone fleeing like arya is would have time or need to commit a cold blooded murder

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actually, thinking through this again doesn't change anything -- if you're referring to the fact that they're prisoners, the answer is -- so what? how is that worse in this context, where hot pie and gendry each get to do what they do best. we hear no reason from hot pie that makes us think that he will be the subject of torture -- same for gendry. all we get is that they were brought in and initially possibly subject to torture -- tywin squashed that -- the hangings are for the bwb -- who they are going to leave camp to find. not a real sense of danger. and how is being out alone on the run any better? or going to the wall for that matter? where they will be cold, celibate and possibly not able to do their chosen trades. we can speculate that they were afraid, that being prisoners was bad -- but the reality of the show is that we haven't seen any fear since the rat torture, which tywin explicitly said is a no no -- what, you think the mountain is going to start it over again now that tywin left? or that he will hang two kids in an effort to find bwb? hot pie doesn't seem concerned with this, and gendry makes no mention one way or another. no, he doesnt explain why he can't do it now. he just says that i cannot do -- but he already said the same exact thing about amory lorch, right before he then went and killed amory lorch about 30 seconds later. why wouldn't arya press him and say yes you can -- you did it with amory -- just go catch up to him. it would have been logical thing to ask for if jaqen had said no i cant do it now no matter what you threaten me with -- it is impossible to catch up to him now that he has been gone for awhile -- but considering that he could kill amory on the spot based on a simple plea by arya, we are supposed to believe that he couldnt kill tywin asap even under threat of death? why not? he gives us no explanation. the book doesn't either -- but time is not of the essence with arya's book kills, so it doesn't matter -- he merely says that they will die sometime both on the show and in the books, not that it is impossible to effect a quick kill -- and the fact that he has already disproved this fact by killing amory on the spot takes away from the argument that he couldnt do it right away. he is a bamf -- that's what we're supposed to get from him.

he can't do it because Tywin already left. am i crazy here?

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he can't do it because Tywin already left. am i crazy here?

you're not crazy -- i just thought it was portrayed poorly if that is what they were going for -- i.e., say he's long gone -- b/c in the show it looks like a couple of hours at most, which shouldn't make it impossible -- not to mention the fact that jaqen never says i can't do it b/c he's long gone -- he just reiterated the same argument he made when she asked him to kill amory -- i.e., you can't rush these things. but the fact that he rushed w/amory seems to be a point against that argument is all i was getting at.

but, i can concede that maybe this is what was meant -- i just didn't love the way the conversation went down.

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Jaqen is a beast. How did he manage to lift that guard up and nail him?

As for the iron coin, perhaps we'll see it in 'valar morghulis'. The title really hints at that scene.

Probably with help from Rorge and Biter.

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Jaqen is a beast. How did he manage to lift that guard up and nail him?

As for the iron coin, perhaps we'll see it in 'valar morghulis'. The title really hints at that scene.

As we find out in the later books Jaqen, if he's the only FM on Westeros , at this time, is the most dangerous person on that land.

Seems to me I saw more than two guards who had been taken out.

One note that I am not sure D and D are going to include, and that is , that Jaqen has known she is Arya Stark all along, he tells her this twice in the book. That is mystery in itself that George has yet to explain.

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I'd like to hope we see Arya take a guards life along the road at some point during episode nine, but with the battle of RW taking up at least the majority of episode nine it seems unlikely. Maybe the beginning of episode 10, and then the the whole valar morguhlis/coin/face changing scene at the end.

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all this hate about how arya escaped and everyone is leaving out the part with JH killed what i counted to be 5 men in an open courtyard without any of them noticing each other being taken out one by one.

sure he killed and old woman in the book, and some dude who trained dogs, and with help poured some soup and helped boltons men out of the cages. But in the show hes clearly shown himself to be an assassin of a much higher quality then in the book.

So while arya's story is a little bit behind, Now when JH was given a much more impressive kill list.

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I think the easiest way for them to do this is end an episode 9 where shes about to act and then open episode 10 where arya is standing over a dead body with hands covered in blood

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Wow, a lot of people have given up on TV-Arya's character already. Just because she didn't kill a guard in that exact moment in the show doesn't mean she isn't going to kill one in the same manner in the next two episodes or next season. They haven't actually shown them outside Harrenhal just yet, and Gregor's going to know something is up when he's not getting his fill of ale and a bunch of guards are dead. Gregor's not the type to take such an escape lightly, especially since Tywin ordered him to keep her there.

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Having 10 one hours episodes explains all this, think this through again.

And they used much of those 10 hour episodes making up their own stories to replace what happened in the books, time which could have been used sticking to the story the book tells. It's hard for me to accept that they couldn't adapt a more faithful version of Arya's book story in the same amount of time they used to tell their TV version, for a similar budget. Sure some things would be cut, altered, or reduced, but for the most part they did a very good job of this in season 1. It is disappointing that they haven't been able to do a similar job this season on many of the story lines.

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And they used much of those 10 hour episodes making up their own stories to replace what happened in the books, time which could have been used sticking to the story the book tells. It's hard for me to accept that they couldn't adapt a more faithful version of Arya's book story in the same amount of time they used to tell their TV version, for a similar budget. Sure some things would be cut, altered, or reduced, but for the most part they did a very good job of this in season 1. It is disappointing that they haven't been able to do a similar job this season on many of the story lines.

Arya's Harrenhall chapters were only interesting because of her internal dialogue, and they couldn't exactly show that on screen, bar conversations with Gendry. That said, I wish they would have shown her more in some actual terrible misery, but I suppose we will have time for that in S3.

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If you've seen the 4th and 5th seasons of The Wire, you'd see there is really no limit to the horrible acts HBO can made their child

characters commit.

Thank you, I think this same thing everytime somebody claims Arya has to be made more "tv friendly". While waiting for this season to start I was worried that they might cut some of her book scenes for the same reason, but then I remember the wire and say a prayer for Omar. HBO has no excuse in my opinion. This was just a poor rewrite.

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It should be noted that the Wire wasn't exctly a ratings success and if it weren't for HBO ignoring the ratings likely would have been cancelled, I would submit stuff like kids killing certainly didn't help to attract viewers. I want Arya to kill too, but lets not pretend its not a serious consideration for the TV show.

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I just watched "Kick-Ass" over the weekend for the first time, which is R-rated like Game of Thrones, and didn't really have a problem with the kid slaughtering everybody and saying something like, "Okay, you cunts, let's see what you can do." (By the way, I hate the C-word and never use it myself.)

I don't think her age is why Arya's not directly killing anybody yet on the show, but obviously I couldn't say that for sure.

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It should be noted that the Wire wasn't exctly a ratings success and if it weren't for HBO ignoring the ratings likely would have been cancelled, I would submit stuff like kids killing certainly didn't help to attract viewers. I want Arya to kill too, but lets not pretend its not a serious consideration for the TV show.

That's the point, I want a smart show that breaks conventions, that in a mature way presents the fantasy genre to the world, to give it the respect it deserves. When they fail to inject the great things about GRRMs world (the moral grayness, the destruction of heroic and villian stereotypes) they destroy great work that GRRM created. If you take the BAMF out of Arya you get just a CLICHED wiseass preteen, of which there are INFINITY on tv and movies. Sheesh you could replace Arya with Hannah Montana or Jaden Smith for all it would matter

If HBO shrinks from putting forth GRRMs twisted genius work of art, the show will fail, cause taking away the darkness will make it fantasy lite, unappealing to the true fantasy fan and the fan of adult drama

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Sure some things would be cut, altered, or reduced, but for the most part they did a very good job of this in season 1. It is disappointing that they haven't been able to do a similar job this season on many of the story lines.

Having read CoK, I had an immediate fear that trying to do it in 10 episodes was going to demand a huge commitment to the teleplays. I was very impressed with D&D the first season... but this season they seem , frankly, overworked as producers, paying attention to new locations, details, that forcing the novel into 10 1 hr episodes was going to strain them. I frankly see fatigue in their teleplays.

On the other hand I would rather have an imperfect season than no continuation at all.

Some small things could have been fixed, but the problem of giving characters and settings roughly 2.5 min. in one hour , and only getting 10 of those 1 hrs tot tell the story is a chore I would not want.

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and only getting 10 of those 1 hrs tot tell the story is a chore I would not want.

its a chore they chose though. there is no reason that season 2 needs to end at the same point COK did. There is no dragon moment that the show needs to end on in ACOK. They could have done 2/3 of the book and ended ACOK 3-4 episodes into season 3. They are doing that for ASOS. They had all the time they needed to flesh out these storyline. they jus chose not too.

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What has she done in the show to convince Jaqen that she would be a good recruit? She saved him and has taken on a different persona, is that it? In the book he genuinly liked her. I really like this Arya, and there are lots of reasons to admire her character, but I don't think he has any reason to like her the way he did in the books and certainly no reason to see her potential and ability to learn. Heck, they haven't really pressed that home while in the books it is kind of central to her character. She won't learn things she considers useless but nobody will put in more work and try harder to learn things she considers worthwile. We haven't gotten the lessons about barefeet or much elsel, we haven't seen as much of her intuition and she only goes to Jaqen when she is desperate.

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