[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

[Rickon is FIERCE]

Ghost being AWOL is a bit of a sticky wicket because, IIRC, Jon was very deliberate when commanding him to lay in between he and Ygritte. Which would have played just as funny and believably for HBO. Ghost suddenly showing up now would simply appear....odd.

Additionally, HBORobb let slip that his bannermen have been griping about Talisa caring for prisoners/enemies which pretty much confirms that her behavior in most every circle is considered unacceptable. His response, "I tell them they are not your enemies." Nevermind the obvious WTF looks Roose manages whenever she interrupts by just walking in. And how is it exactly that some solder can attempt to enter Catelyn's tent and be rebuffed without a seconds passing, but Talisa just up and presents herself, unannounced, and apparently unaware of how unacceptable such behavior will be viewed? The telling difference is that Brienne emphasized that one must ask to enter and be heard. So, if Talisa doesn't have to observe the same custom, perhaps Robb has already commanded that she be allowed to enter at her will.

Which would effectively nullify the "I don't have to keep my vow at the expense of my happiness" MO that D&D are selling. It becomes premeditated by him, acted on by him, and eventually consummated by him, the first two prior to Catelyn's betrayal.

Really like this post...lot of my same thoughts...only I'd forgotten that detail about Jon using ghost to keep things from gettin' freaky with Ygritte- you're right, it would have played well on tv, and then we could still get that classic line from Ygritte after she tells the world she and Jon have been gettin' it on many a night when she says "Have Ghost sleep somewhere else tonight."

[protar]

Well then I presume you've never experienced a super-hot girl who is obviously interested in you but playing hard to get. And for some reason you know you can't have her (in Robb's case it's because he is promised to a Frey), which makes you want her all the more.

Pretty standard, really. I don't get why everyone is saying Robb would not do such a thing.

Well then I presume you've never experienced a super-hot girl who is obviously interested in you but playing hard to get. And for some reason you know you can't have her (in Robb's case it's because he is promised to a Frey), which makes you want her all the more. Pretty standard, really. I don't get why everyone is saying Robb would not do such a thing.

Can't say I have to be honest :( but then that's taught be something about hot girls so...

and as fantome said, the feel of the plot is just too modern.

[madman2711]

I dont think tulisa plays too hard to get

I mean she is barging inside the king tent whenever she wants she takes walks with the king on the wayback from surrendering castle

He is teasing him about the Frey bridge and the Frey girl only a virgin king wont understand what she really wants, even Karstark is raging about the foreign bitch that the king is entertaing

I think that the whole camp pressumed that Robb is doing her for some time.

[Reposado]

I think that the whole camp presumed that Robb is doing her for some time.

Nah, cause they wouldn't care. They're probably thinking. "Just bed her already so we can get on with the war. Stannis is heading for Kings Landing, there are ironborn in the north and we're sitting here while you're going through the courtship process"

[madman2711]

i can imagine Karstark and Roose Bolton beting on the day he bones her probably it was a betting pool from all the sworn lords of the North

[SerMixalot]

Nah, cause they wouldn't care. They're probably thinking. "Just bed her already so we can get on with the war. Stannis is heading for Kings Landing, there are ironborn in the north and we're sitting here while you're going through the courtship process"

More like, if the King dont bang that camp follower soon I will!

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

Tywin keeps repeatingly stating that Robb keeps winning battles but his army has sat in the Westerlands all season not doing anything. They are not even pillaging and burning the westerlands. It was my understanding Robb was dealing out the same card Tywin dealt to the Riverlands in an attempt to draw him back there.

Robb was stated as winning 3 battles at the beggining of the series, that's whispering wood, the follow up battle and one mystery battle. Then he beat Stefford Lannister. That's 4 victories. I don't need to see countless battles or capturing of villages/forts I'd just like when Tywin mentions his victories he name checks a recent one. Maybe Kevin will remark scouts tell us Robb has captured the fort at Bambury or something like that, then have Tywin rant about the great boy king.

I'm just annoyed they haven't been clearer about the movement of armies. They haven't properly explained why Tywin in at Harrenhall. (He's there because from that position he can march south to defend KL and still keep Robb from moving south and linking up with Renly/Stannis. We've had plenty of scenes with Tywin planning war. What would it take one minute to have them describe the situation and position of the major players. That scene with Stannis in ep01 with that glorious table. They should have used the table and had one of his men, maybe even Davos describe where everyone was, describe Robbs victories and where Tywin was and why. It would have reminded non book fans exactly what happened in S1 and what the situation was in the war. That would have been a great way to open the series IMO.

It all just feels like theres not enough info for non-book readers to follow and book readers are made to have it all suffer unecessary changes.

The Robb love story I won't say too much about except I think they didn't want Robb to be acting out of grief or honour they wanted LOVE to be the motivator for him. Maybe they thought it would be more acceptable in this twilight time to have a tragic love story than have an audience think about the complicated motivations we get from the books. I think it's a shame that they weren't brave enough to let the story stand out for itself than remodel it for the "Twilight" generation.

[The Second Hand]

I would love to spend my time listing ten or fifteen things that David and Dan could do in order to better adapt this show. As we've seen, they have been shockingly true to the novel, but at other times, shockingly adverse to having anything to do with it.

With that, my chief complaint is the nonsensical manner in which they change things. Yara? Really? Why is Tyrion so limp when Peter Dinklage can play him so many ways, as if a fiddle? Why do they constantly ignore all of Martin's brilliant little touches and instead choose to stamp the series with their awful writing? It's painful to watch. Really.

[teemo]

I would love to spend my time listing ten or fifteen things that David and Dan could do in order to better adapt this show. As we've seen, they have been shockingly true to the novel, but at other times, shockingly adverse to having anything to do with it.

With that, my chief complaint is the nonsensical manner in which they change things. Yara? Really? Why is Tyrion so limp when Peter Dinklage can play him so many ways, as if a fiddle? Why do they constantly ignore all of Martin's brilliant little touches and instead choose to stamp the series with their awful writing? It's painful to watch. Really.

I agree. Sometimes the dialogue is so great, taken straight from the books or even adjusted a little bit in their own way that works. Other times they do that and all of the sudden they throw something random in there that just kind of ruins it. Like Yara/Theon conversation. I was loving it. It was very similar to the books, Yara was actually a good actress this time, and then.....they throw in this cheesy part at the end about Yara watching Theon as a baby. I really didn't see the point of adding that...little cheesy additions like that bother me.

[Rickon is FIERCE]

I agree. Sometimes the dialogue is so great, taken straight from the books or even adjusted a little bit in their own way that works. Other times they do that and all of the sudden they throw something random in there that just kind of ruins it. Like Yara/Theon conversation. I was loving it. It was very similar to the books, Yara was actually a good actress this time, and then.....they throw in this cheesy part at the end about Yara watching Theon as a baby. I really didn't see the point of adding that...little cheesy additions like that bother me.

I sorta felt that way, too, but then I saw this on another thread...

Can't take credit for this, a friend pointed it out to me today, but Yara's speech to Theon was such a huge nod/foreshadowing to the books. In the show, she tells him that "you looked up... and smiled at me." My friend pointed out that in Dance, when Theon finally meets up with Asha, he is down on his knees. She doesn't recognize him until he looks up, smiles, and says "hello sister."

[SerMixalot]

I freely admit that I cannot objectively review GoT on HBO. The source material is to close to my heart. When I watch the series I am too busy obsessing over changes etc. I just cant say whether the series is a hit or not. For me, even with all the changes it is a hit. I truly hope they get 7 or 8 seasons out of it to tell the entire tale.

Are the changes hurting or helping the series? I dont know and again I cant be objective about it. Some things seem nonsensical to me, but to a non reader perhaps they work. Hearing how non readers think Arya is the badass she is in the book surprises me and in that case is great cause that increases the chance of having a succesful show.

I truly hope that GoT is successful for a long time. It is an incredible reimagining of an entire genre generating wide appeal for something I love which means more great stories and shows in the future-would LOVE a movie or series on the Thomas Covenant Chronicles. So here's to the success of GoT

[bikie]

I freely admit that I cannot objectively review GoT on HBO. The source material is to close to my heart. When I watch the series I am too busy obsessing over changes etc. I just cant say whether the series is a hit or not. For me, even with all the changes it is a hit. I truly hope they get 7 or 8 seasons out of it to tell the entire tale. Are the changes hurting or helping the series?

this is how I feel as well. I have tried to temper my criticism because I watched the 1st season without having read any of the books, and then read them all during the interim and now season 2 has been a completely different experience... I sometimes am penalized for waiting for a particular scene from the book to appear in the show (such as "hot pie!!) and then being flustered if the scene isn't included...

all that said, there are still some issues with season 2 that I feel are unacceptable under any circumstances of quality creativity... the stupidity of the guard going into the cage after jaime kills the lannister cousin, osha stealing bread in the middle of the day, feet away from theon, etc,

other things such as character motivations (cat and robb acting as they did without the emotions of the news that bran and rickon were dead) (littlefinger being so bold, jon snow being so inept) are issues I feel I'm overly critical of having read the books...

[madman2711]

Are the changes hurting or helping the series? I dont know and again I cant be objective about it. Some things seem nonsensical to me, but to a non reader perhaps they work. Hearing how non readers think Arya is the badass she is in the book surprises me and in that case is great cause that increases the chance of having a

Probably she will kill her targets with the power of her witt and they will commit suicide

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Well, I won't get into details of why I "force" them to watch the show (basically - they do it voluntarily because they know how much I like it, but I still feel like I'm forcing them at times). I watch the show because for the most part because I love it. This past episode really blew my mind, I thought it was awesome how they were able to correct a lot of previous errors and bring a lot of things together nicely. There was definitely some good writing, and a lot of dialogue pulled from the books, which I also appreciate. I also love Theon's arc, Jaime and Brienne, Sansa, Tyrion, Arya, pretty much everyone except for Robb's storyline. Just because I am really frustrated by that part of the show, does that mean I should stop watching it? Apparently, you think so, and the comment is a little rude. I guess every time I'm frustrated with any aspect of a show I should just stop watching it completely.

You misunderstood my statement. I was honestly not trying to be rude, but simply asking a question. I understand your position, because this happened to me in the past with a book series I adored that was badly adapted for television. It eventually came to a point where the tv series was ruining the books for me, so I stopped watching. It was nice to be not be upset every week over an episode, and I stuck to re-reading the books. ^_^

I also have a freind that knows how much I adore ASOIAF, and decided to watch the show with me. They complained so much about the show, which was already upsetting me somewhat, that I asked them to stop viewing it with me, and my viewing experience has improved greatly.

This is 'nitpick without repercussion'. See the rest of the forum for jumping down people's throats about their opinions. Except Rhymes, it's all fun and games there :D

You also misunderstood me. I agree with a few of the opinions here, which is why I was reading the thread.

[teemo]

You misunderstood my statement. I was honestly not trying to be rude, but simply asking a question. I understand your position, because this happened to me in the past with a book series I adored that was badly adapted for television. It eventually came to a point where the tv series was ruining the books for me, so I stopped watching. It was nice to be not be upset every week over an episode, and I stuck to re-reading the books. ^_^

I also have a freind that knows how much I adore ASOIAF, and decided to watch the show with me. They complained so much about the show, which was already upsetting me somewhat, that I asked them to stop viewing it with me, and my viewing experience has improved greatly.

Sorry, sometimes it's difficult to tell when people are honestly not trying to be rude vs. making a snarky comment, so I apologize. Well, my boyfriend knows I am obsessed with ASOIAF and watches it because of that, even though I've told him, "forget it, just stop watching it with me," but he doesn't so my feelings won't get hurt, I guess. I don't know. He doesn't complain during the episode, but at the end he always makes snarky remarks like, "wow, awesome, another soap opera of rich people bitching." I hope the Blackwater Bay episode will be a little more thrilling to him.

[Davos55]

Sorry, sometimes it's difficult to tell when people are honestly not trying to be rude vs. making a snarky comment, so I apologize. Well, my boyfriend knows I am obsessed with ASOIAF and watches it because of that, even though I've told him, "forget it, just stop watching it with me," but he doesn't so my feelings won't get hurt, I guess. I don't know. He doesn't complain during the episode, but at the end he always makes snarky remarks like, "wow, awesome, another soap opera of rich people bitching." I hope the Blackwater Bay episode will be a little more thrilling to him.

I have had a similar experience when watching with some people and I agree, it does get annoying sometimes! The worst is trying to watch with somebody who hasn't seen any previous episodes, but that is understandable I suppose.

The Blackwater episode should be thrilling enough for any viewer! I plan on watching it with some nonbook fans when it airs (I surely hope so) and I have been hyping it up..it should live up to it!

[teemo]

I have had a similar experience when watching with some people and I agree, it does get annoying sometimes! The worst is trying to watch with somebody who hasn't seen any previous episodes, but that is understandable I suppose.

The Blackwater episode should be thrilling enough for any viewer! I plan on watching it with some nonbook fans when it airs (I surely hope so) and I have been hyping it up..it should live up to it!

:) Yeah, I have very high expectations for this episode now, because I have been telling my boyfriend all week how it's going to the coolest, most badass episode yet. I don't think he believes me....so I really, really hope it's not lame! lol. I'm sure the writing will be great because it's GRRM's baby, but I'm worried about budgetary restrictions. I know they allocated a huge portion of their budget to this episode though, so it will probably be on a rather large scale. Watch Tyrion and Davos pass out at the beginning of the battle and then it pans to the aftermath. lol.

[Davos55]

:) Yeah, I have very high expectations for this episode now, because I have been telling my boyfriend all week how it's going to the coolest, most badass episode yet. I don't think he believes me....so I really, really hope it's not lame! lol. I'm sure the writing will be great because it's GRRM's baby, but I'm worried about budgetary restrictions. I know they allocated a huge portion of their budget to this episode though, so it will probably be on a rather large scale. Watch Tyrion and Davos pass out at the beginning of the battle and then it pans to the aftermath. lol.

I have also been hyping it as the most badass one ever haha. I don't have a significant other to please but I do have some friends who I would like to get into the show, so I hope it works out for both of us! I really liked GRRM's episode last season, and I definitely hope this season is even better!

Judging from the previews it looks like there will be some pretty big on foot battles. I am not sure how they are going to do the naval aspects and the wildfire with a tv budget.

Does anybody know just how much the budget is for this episode? Or how much larger the budget is compared to the other episodes this season??

[LordofWinter]

Why do they constantly ignore all of Martin's brilliant little touches and instead choose to stamp the series with their awful writing? It's painful to watch. Really.

agreed. there are so many examples of this. and alot of them are so simple that not including them can't look like anything else except a thumbing of their noses. don't get me wrong i understand that certain things just don't work on screen, or don't fit into the timeline or budget. But it's the small things that have no reason to be changed that really upset people ie. renly's peach, stannis making davos hand far too early, seeing stannis runks mel, jaime not calling brienne wench within the first 20 mins they know each other (this particularly upset me, as i had fond memories of brienne and jaime trading wench's and kingslayer's for their first few pages together. don't get me wrong the show has gotten the feel of their relationship down, but wench is as much of a needed 'catchphrase' as it is known, you know nothing, and this i know oh ohh ohh.) i understand wanting to separate your work from the original, but that's not really how an adaptation works. they should have said "loosely based upon"

a friend of mine who just started aCoK is about 4 chapters in and called me up to say two things, 1-he is starting to hate the show because he's realizing the things that are slightly confusing or make little to no sense in the show are mainly that way because they are not supposed to be that way ie sansa/shae, tyrion/cersei, tywin/arya, robb/talisa and 2- he questions whether or not the writers for the show spent the appropriate amount of time reading through the books because they seemed to have missed some very obvious plot points and tones.

[madman2711]

I think that D&D belive they are perfecting GRRM work

I dont see it that way but some appologists belive they are doing a great job

I think they should call it not adaptation but D&D personal view /version of asoiaf

I love the show i enjoy KL/ Wf/ even Nw

But i really belive that danny and arya story were too much "improved"

Robb and Cat i dont want to start