Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

teemo

[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

Recommended Posts

Don't like the changes to the Jon story, or how they've turned out. At least not yet.

Actually fairly okay with Robb/Jeyne (or w/e she's calling herself) - don't particularly love the scenes but I can bear them fairly easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know this ship sailed many moons ago, but I'm sad that we can't get Roose's killer line to Brienne, when he tells her and Jaime about the Robb/Jeyne marriage and she says "This can't be true," Brienne said stubbornly. "King Robb was sworn to wed a Frey. He would never break faith, he -" and Roose says, "His Grace is a boy of sixteen," said Roose Bolton, mildly. "And I would thank you not to question my word, my lady."

Just love the way he slapped her down there, and loved the whole dynamic of the story - Robb's accomplishments are many, but he is still a boy of sixteen, and ultimately his youthful naivete is his downfall. Sigh. I know they needed to make him a little older, but I thought that aspect of the book was so moving and profound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread has way too much negativity. I will slowly back out...with one final statement...

I LIKE ALL THE CHANGES AND THEY ARE NECESSARY FOR A TV ADAPTATION.

*runs out of room*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

--This is defintiely nitpicking, so I'm in in the right thread. Stannis telling Davos he'd make him hand happened too early. That's one of my favorite scenes from ASOS, and here it's relegated to an offhand comment. Especially disappointing since I was really enjoying their scene together prior to that, and if I hadn't read the books I wouldn't care. But it's a very strong moment in A Storm of Swords, one that made me realize I liked Stannis, and here he just seems to do it out of the blue, whereas in the book it's because Davos tells him the hard truths.

--Qhorin is just not the same character. Really looks like a bumbling idiot on the show, one who can't even keep track of his own men. Jon looks even worse.

--So sick of Dany mentioning her damn dragons and needing to get them back. That was a waste of a scene, though at least it was short.

--Tyrion just doesn't seem as clever on the show. Almost feels like he's being played more for comic relief, and he is funny (in the books too), but he just doesn't seem as smart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I LIKE ALL THE CHANGES AND THEY ARE NESSICARY FOR A TV ADAPTATION.

*runs out of room*

yeah, you better...hah :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No weasel soup? There's no justification for that whatsoever! It just shows that these writers probably read the books too fast and they completely miss the point of some of these character moments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with hk47 on everything really. This episode was much less painful than last weeks. But I still have nitpicks.

Tyrion now is wondering how to defend the city, and goes through old books to figure it out and asks his commander of the city watch/sellsword Bronn for advice?

What happened to the plot with Tyrion poisoning Cersei? Tyrion opening asked Pycelle for what I thought was a diuretic, and then the plot was dropped.

Stannis declaring Davos his hand now is a change I actually don't mind. I just found it funny how Davos didn't protest it at all. He looked like he was feigning surprise and thinking "About time!"

The Cersei/Tyrion feud seemed a little forced considering the lack of hostility they've had this season.

Where is Sir Dontos?

No Vargo Hoat?

Quorin Halfhand would never be taken alive!

Catelyn frees Jaime before the news about Bran/Rickon, and Robb has sex with this flaky woman who is always around him for some reason also before the news.

This season will never stand up to the first, but this episode wasn't as ridiculous.

Edit: Oh, and Stannis does smile sometimes. The writers got him mixed up with Tywin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, I am now completely convinced that the show is making an active effort to sideline the moments of awesome given to the female characters. I was so looking forward to them proving me wrong and showing Arya's Weasel Soup moment (at least don't ruin HER, right?)... aaaand nothing. It's like they're purposefully trying to make the women more pathetic than they actually are. (And don't even get me started on her asking for the Tickler's death before... that gives me little hope for future episodes. I predict she won't get that awesome moment where she stabs him to death and all the fighting will instead be done by the Hound.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No weasel soup? There's no justification for that whatsoever! It just shows that these writers probably read the books too fast and they completely miss the point of some of these character moments.

They're not fond of food like GRRM. Like with Renly's peach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't like the changes to the Jon story, or how they've turned out. At least not yet. Actually fairly okay with Robb/Jeyne (or w/e she's calling herself) - don't particularly love the scenes but I can bear them fairly easily.

I can endure them too. But they are terrible. At least they don't change something really important to the grand scheme of things. What I don't like is how this random woman follows and questions the king of the north about his motives in the war. It doesn't feel authentic as a medieval-era type of story when women (especially strangers) can speak so freely without hesitation. GRRM made their encounter plausible, but this is painfully forced.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can stand changes that involve budget issues, actor schedules, and other issues related with filming and production. However, I CANNOT stand changes that involve a bunch of stuck up T.V. writers wanting to stroke their ego by trying to "one up" GRRM. Jeyne Westerling was fine... why did you replace her with this random girl from Volantis that decided to heal wounded people on ANOTHER CONTINENT because her brother drowned and a slave died saving her. It just doesn't make sense. ... PLEASE STOP MAKING POINTLESS AND SEEMINGLY RANDOM CHANGES FROM THE BOOKS, THE BOOKS ARE WHAT PEOPLE FELL I LOVE WITH AND THE STORY THEY TELL IS WHY YOU ARE MAKING THIS SHOW IN THE FIRST PLACE.

:agree: So much this. I mean what they hell? There is no, and I mean absolutely no excuse for them to have changed Jeyne. There are no money or production issue involved except the dialogue would be different. I am OK for them to change things when they have to be changed in an adaptation but this is purely a measure of stroking their ego. A complete waste of a character storyline. How in the name of gods are they going to convince people who haven't read the books that the red wedding happened because of little miss cliche as hell?

We need some goddamn GRRM loyalists in the writing team and by that I mean sack the producers and fill the positions up with purists.

Also the whole Dany being the 'mother' and 'I am the blood of the dragon' can only remain fresh for so long. They screwed her arc up as well. I understand that they decided to spice things up with the whole dragon stealing thing but didn't bother to explain why. Who the balls is Pyat Pree? Why does he want her to visit the house of the undying? We got nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-I like the Talisa/Jeyne changes. In the books Jeyne has zero personality or culture. Talisa has travelled pretty far, knows about Nobility and the plight of the ordinary man. I think she will be interesting.

-The dany scene was pointless, i would rather have had a scene where they were preparing to attack or get to the House of Undying. Her with a determined look on her face, going up the steps.

- I absolutely loved the Yara scene and her whole persona

- I would have preferred to see Cat make the deal with Jaime though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is that one of the most poignant aspects of Robb's story was precisely the incredible cost of a decision made so purely out of honor, rather than real knowledge of Jeyne or even necessarily true affection for her. It was so Ned. He married her because he had compromised her own honor, and in doing so, damaged his with the most far-reaching of consequences. This is exactly what I love most about the storyline and it is killing me to see them change it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:agree: So much this. I mean what they hell? There is no, and I mean absolutely no excuse for them to have changed Jeyne. There are no money or production issue involved except the dialogue would be different. I am OK for them to change things when they have to be changed in an adaptation but this is purely a measure of stroking their ego. A complete waste of a character storyline. How in the name of gods are they going to convince people who haven't read the books that the red wedding happened because of little miss cliche as hell? We need some goddamn GRRM loyalists in the writing team and by that I mean sack the producers and fill the positions up with purists. Also the whole Dany being the 'mother' and 'I am the blood of the dragon' can only remain fresh for so long. They screwed her arc up as well. I understand that they decided to spice things up with the whole dragon stealing thing but didn't bother to explain why. Who the balls is Pyat Pree? Why does he want her to visit the house of the undying? We got nothing.

Agree with everything you said. A lot of this season has felt like David and Dan trying to spice up A Clash of Kings and making somewhat of a mess, and in Qarth making a total clusterfuck. Did anyone at all care about Xaro trying to be the king of Qarth, or was anyone shocked at his betrayal? We hardly even knew who he was, or anything about Qarth, so who cares if about his power plays agianst the Thirteen or invoking Sumair or any of that crap.

Same thing with Jeyne. Wasn't enough that Robb gets married offscreen to the daughter of a smaller house on the Lannister side. Instead, they put in scenes of cliched romance with some noble turned healer that are really just a waste of time.

Some of my least favorite scenes have been the cliffhangers. In the book, Jon hears that Craster may be sacrificing babies to the others. The show though, has to make everything explicit, and not only does Jon see an other taking one of the babies, but he gets whacked over the head by Craster in a cringeworthy cliffhanger more suited to True Blood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No weasel-soup! ok, so she did name Jaqen as her last name wich is cool, but the weasel soup plan is so much awesome not only because of the way they did it but also because thanks to Arya Harrenhal was taken by the north.

The news of Bran and Rickon's supposed death not reaching the Starks. Way to make Robb and Catelyn seem completely incompetent. They are fitting a freaking war and they go and make all this stupid desicions. At least in the book they had the excuse of being emotionally unstable during their screw ups.

And speaking of screw ups, Robb's "love story" is just a mess. I though this Talissa woman was Jeyne Westerling in disguise or something but now we had a whole story about her past. So is this a completely different character? This is making Robb seem all the more stupid. I guess my vision of Robb's wedding was "less romantic" than the producer's. I always saw it as Robb succumbing to a moment of weakness due to emotional distress. Jeyne was a high born lady and Robb tough he dishonored her by sleeping with her (high born ladies are supposed to be virgins when they marry) so he marry her. It was an honorable decision in a way, he just put Jeyne's honor above his own. I'm not saying he didn't fall in love her, I'm sure there was that too, but I always thought that it was his sense of duty and honor that really push him to make that decision and not just "love" cause he wouldn't be so stupid to ditch the Freys just for that. But, well since we don't have a Robb POV, I guess this is just me wishful thinking that Robb wasn't that stupid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to hang on to some shreds of hope and try to rationalize some of the "changes". Without Riverrun they can change "Jenye" and eliminate all the Westerlings from the show (save time and actors), I mean without Riverrun how can they have her mom and sister part of the story, therefore she can be nurse from Volantis. I agree that they could have given Robb some more "excuses" for falling for her (Bran & Rickon dead, him wounded and her caring for him) but the door is still open for her to escape with his baby (which aside from being the catalyst for the Red Wedding is her biggest role).

No "weasel soup" or coin YET, but the last episode is titled "Valor Morgalis" so there is hope they include it some how, I'm hoping Aryas escape won't be that easy, she's had a cake walk of a time so far, things have to get harder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, I think someone mentioned this already but does Jaqen give Arya the coin before she leaves (which I know she doesn't until after Roose takes Harrenhal), I don't remember exactly but after Weasel soup (damn you D&D), he does give the coin right? They also didn't show Tyrion commissioning the chains I am hoping they make use of it and not just put forth throwing wildfire as the ultimate master plan. I am kinda OK with there not being Cleos in the Jaime redemption arc but his dialogue with Brienne could have been a little more better ("wench..."). I hope Dany gets into the house already also I am skipping all the Robb/Talisha bits when watching an episode from now on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel like they've completely destroyed the relationship between Jon and Qhorin in favor of having Jon parade Ygritte around in the middle of nowhere. That seems like something that had a somewhat significant role not only in his character development, but in the perception of the character by readers(and potentially viewers). Now he just kind of looks like an idiot.

Also I was really looking forward to that chase scene from the books where the rangers stay behind one by one to stall Rattleshirt, but it's not going to be there. Very disappointing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, I think someone mentioned this already but does Jaqen give Arya the coin before she leaves (which I know she doesn't until after Roose takes Harrenhal), I don't remember exactly but after Weasel soup (damn you D&D), he does give the coin right?

I reread it recently - yes, Arya receives the coin from Jaqen before she leaves, and after Weasel soup (in fact, he leaves it with her right before he departs after having fulfilled his deal with her).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Cat's reaction was a bit off. She owns up to her treason and repeats several times that she'll gladly be punished for it, but here she just kinda sits there. She didn't even mention that Karstark was about to kill him, which I thought was the whole point of changing the narrative. At least they could have had her stand up so she didn't have to look up to Robb and Karstark the whole time. It'll also make Robb look like a giant moron and a hypocrite : "[Jaime Lannister] has played you for a fool. You've weakened our position and brought discord into our camp". If that is so bad then what the hell are you doing walking around the countryside and having sex with Talisa Medicine Woman ?

Also Podrick is huge. Isn't he 12 or something ? He looks taller than Cersei.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×