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teemo

[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

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Just going to nitpick Karstark saying he would carve out his heart and offer it to the Father for revenge. Which I found weird, seeming he's a Northerner, who doesn't follow the Seven.

Edit: Spelling & Grammar

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Regarding Robb and Talisa....if they followed the book, one episode Robb would just show up with a girl he married. You think this stuff doesn't fly?? I'm not crazy about their scenes in general, but if you throw out expectations from the book I can see where the writers are going. They want viewers, especially non-readers to be invested in Robb before the RW, and a love story is the best way to do that if you're not able to finance battle scenes. I'll admit that as their scene opened last night I picked up my phone and started to play a game. I didn't care about her story. But then I forced myself to watch b/c this was actually a backstory from the book that we never really get (I mean the falling for each other, not the actual way it happened) and I actually ended up liking their scene. (and she's gorgeous...that's ok to say right??).

My ONE nitpick was that they ended the episode on a complete non-cliffhanger. WE ALREADY KNEW THEY WEREN'T DEAD! They messed the whole Bran/Rickon thing up badly. You either try to make the viewers believe they killed Bran and Rickon, only to reveal the next week that they didn't (which would work), or you make it painfully obvious that they didn't really kill them (like they did last episode with the pointless scene where Bran points out the orphan boys) and then end the next episode with a real cliffhanger.

Otherwise I really like this episode.

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I don't mind the Arya changes; it changes her character development somewhat, but all it really does is push things back a little. It's still the same basic trajectory.

The Jon changes, though... It's just dumb. It makes both Qhorin and Jon into bumbling idiots. I kept holding out hope that there would be a better explanation, but... it makes no sense for Qhorin to leave Jon alone with Ygritte like that, or for them to be taken unawares while searching for the greenhorn they just left alone to execute the prisoner. None of it makes sense. I was willing hold off judgement until we knew for certain that this is what they were really doing.

I also agree about both Robb and Catelyn's actions not being driven by grief. I just don't understand why they would make that change for dramatic purposes; it weakens everyone, and they could have told the story just as easily the way it was originally written. I'm hard enough on Robb and Catelyn in the books; this makes their actions so much worse.

ETA: Here's what I don't get. I'm 100% on board with the changes to Dany's story, as it closes a gaping plot hole from the books which has always bothered me. So if the writers were wise enough to do that, why would they decide to open up a completely new set of plot holes and character lobotomies in Westeros? I'm not a purist - I like a great many of the changes they've made. But I don't understand this dumbing down of the characters.

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I consider this a very weak episode. Too many scenes were used just for filler material. This is a dialogue heavy show, I understand. But there was too much talk and not enough action. You would think this was soap opera, where everything is dialogue because it's cheap to film.

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I think we've lost a possibly excellent scene in seeing Robb receive the news of his dead brothers. This scene should have occurred while the audience still believed Theon had killed them. It won't have the same impact watching Robb grieve while the audience has cofirmed they aren't dead. Instead of being poignant, the audience will simply go, silly Robb, if you only knew!

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Stannis and Selyse being married during the Rebellion bugged me. Especially since they mentioned that Cersei married Robert at 19, after the Rebellion. A second son being married before the first ? That's a bit weird I think.

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So the Jon storyline looks to be getting us to the same place, but now Jon is an idiot, Qhorin is not a badass, and the sacrifice of the rangers is a casual aside. What was the point of the changes?

Holy shit, yes.

In the books it's a fair stretch that Jon is elected Lord Commander, and that's when he's done pretty much everything right and been the very model of a man of the Night's Watch.

In the show, I would vote for Grenn over Jon. Hell, I'd vote for Craster over Jon.

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I thought Cat's reaction was a bit off. She owns up to her treason and repeats several times that she'll gladly be punished for it, but here she just kinda sits there. She didn't even mention that Karstark was about to kill him, which I thought was the whole point of changing the narrative. At least they could have had her stand up so she didn't have to look up to Robb and Karstark the whole time. It'll also make Robb look like a giant moron and a hypocrite : "[Jaime Lannister] has played you for a fool. You've weakened our position and brought discord into our camp". If that is so bad then what the hell are you doing walking around the countryside and having sex with Talisa Medicine Woman ?

Yeah I had not noticed that.

Not only the Karstark thing D&D could have borrowed from the book (I am not a purist)... the (fake) deaths of her youngest sons, and I though there was a letter from Tyrion about trading Jamie for the girls... ? LG had made that offer episodes ago, but did not seem to leave Tyrion's message.

Its all simple logic, and brief dialog.

I don't know D&D seems slipping this year... they wrote such tight teleplays last year.

Now they had a problem with a bigger book this year , but even with their own rework of the material they don't even follow their own internal logic.

Some dramatic drifting , Dany in particular, things here and there that seemed could have been fixed within their constraints.

They seem overworked or distracted for some reason.

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they never explained why Cat asked for Brienne's sword last episode. You know, like that was the cliffhanger. Nothing about wringing oaths at the point of a sword.

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Holy shit, yes. In the books it's a fair stretch that Jon is elected Lord Commander, and that's when he's done pretty much everything right and been the very model of a man of the Night's Watch. In the show, I would vote for Grenn over Jon. Hell, I'd vote for Craster over Jon.

Hell, I dislike Jon in the books, and even I hate what the writers have done to him this season. He's a total joke. Why would anyone vote for him for LC? Sure, in the books it is somewhat contrived that it happened at his age, but at least he's a competent brother of the NW, highly rated by almost everyone who has had a chance to work with him. Here, he can't do anything right, and almost everyone treats him like a fool.

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if you watch some of the "inside the episode" videos on HBO.com, D&D believe Jon suffered from a lack of a male adult role model and thus sought a fatherly relationship with Lord Mormont. 1st Jon did not suffer from a fatherly role, Ned loved him. It was a motherly relationship he didnt have, though I will grant there was something of a fatherly role played by Mormont, but it was more in the terms of a mentor/mentee relationship. Nothing in the books showed the conflict with Craster, Mormont etal. Jon was a quiet serious young man in the book, the show a loud mouth needing some place putting. Again I believe a basic misunderstanding of the character by the producers.

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Just going to nitpick Karstark saying he would carve out his heart and offer it to the Father for revenge. Which I found weird, seeming he's a Northerner, who doesn't follow the Seven. Edit: Spelling & Grammar

Same exact thing I thought. They are the Karhold Starks and they are of the Old Gods of the North. Just like Bolton . .. my goodnes I caught that as I am sure all "bookies" did.

It was a good complaint about Tyrion about all the gods of Martin's world other than the fertility goddess of the Summer Isles.

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if you watch some of the "inside the episode" videos on HBO.com, D&D believe Jon suffered from a lack of a male adult role model and thus sought a fatherly relationship with Lord Mormont. 1st Jon did not suffer from a fatherly role, Ned loved him. It was a motherly relationship he didnt have, though I will grant there was something of a fatherly role played by Mormont, but it was more in the terms of a mentor/mentee relationship. Nothing in the books showed the conflict with Craster, Mormont etal. Jon was a quiet serious young man in the book, the show a loud mouth needing some place putting. Again I believe a basic misunderstanding of the character by the producers.

That makes sense ... and that is the one thing I have to remember, that as many of us see the characters and their psyche differently so o our fellow fans D and D.

I have to remember and we "nit pickers/bookies" have to remember that D and D are just like us.

Because I see Danny as MLK and Spartacus and some see her as Jenna Bush or Teddy Kennedy.

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I'm not sure how important this is but in the TV episode when they find the dragonglass and horn, its under a rock and Sam makes a point about how it's probably been buried there for a long time. In the books Jon Snow points to how soft the dirt is and something about the Nightwatch cloak in reference to how it was placed there recently.

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I'm not sure how important this is but in the TV episode when they find the dragonglass and horn, its under a rock and Sam makes a point about how it's probably been buried there for a long time. In the books Jon Snow points to how soft the dirt is and something about the Nightwatch cloak in reference to how it was placed there recently.

though one of the other brothers points out how they were meant to find it. I think that scene generally worked. Though I have a problem with the setting, beautiful it may be but I dont believe there was snow there until the attach of the others and there are no trees.

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they never explained why Cat asked for Brienne's sword last episode. You know, like that was the cliffhanger. Nothing about wringing oaths at the point of a sword.

I think that is in the book too, and the way the chapter ends.

I don't think it's explained in the book either, I think, since the next chapter picks us with Brienne and Jamie on the road.

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point with the snow is, are the planning to have the assasination plot against Mormont next season? If so kind of dumb for the plotters to plot killing mormont with all that snow around and wide open vistas. That will probably be revised though

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Just going to nitpick Karstark saying he would carve out his heart and offer it to the Father for revenge. Which I found weird, seeming he's a Northerner, who doesn't follow the Seven.

You stole my one nitpick! He could just as easily (and more appropriately) have said that he'd offer it to the Old Gods as a sacrifice. D&D generally do a good job with the adaptation, but their sloppiness with the source material astounds me sometimes.

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I think that is in the book too, and the way the chapter ends. I don't think it's explained in the book either, I think, since the next chapter picks us with Brienne and Jamie on the road.

just read it this morning, in the 3rd book during the 1st part of the escape (while starting on the river, where they are now) Jamie reflects on making his oath at sword point. I think they could haev referenced it tonight to at least address teh cliffhanger

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