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teemo

[Book Spoilers] Nitpick without repercussion!

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Major Nitpick: HBO is making me like Roose Bolton. He seems to be the only northman capable of playing the game at any level.

I believe thats what they're trying to portray. I mean every time Talisa comes on screen, Roose Bolton is with Robb, and you can tell by his facial expressions that he's getting sick of this chick. Foreshadowing his viciousness and oncoming betrayal. Roose Bolton has very little honor. The less honor you have, the better you can play the game :cool4:

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I believe thats what they're trying to portray. I mean every time Talisa comes on screen, Roose Bolton is with Robb, and you can tell by his facial expressions that he's getting sick of this chick. Foreshadowing his viciousness and oncoming betrayal. Roose Bolton has very little honor. The less honor you have, the better you can play the game :cool4:

The Northmen were clearly unable to play the game in the books as well, and they are showing Roose being tired of all this. Making Roose's betrayal more understandable to his character

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How about this one: If the reason Cat released Jaime was to stop him being killed by the Karstarks, why didn't she just tell Brienne to take him but double back the next day when Robb would be back and it would be safe?

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I could've sworn Tyrion told someone in an earlier episode that Joffery was "only a 13 year old boy!" and then says that Joffery is 17 in this episode? I could be wrong though. Either way Joff does not look 17.

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One episode I have so much to moan about. Haven't read the whole thread so at the risk of repeating points I'll keep it brief:

Talisa - fuck off. That is all.

Dany - you don't have any magic, GTFO. What the hell is HBO doing to her?!

Karstark - the fuck? You're a Northman, STFU about the Father.

Arya - no Weasel soup? WHY NOT? NO reason for it not being in.

Sansa - oh, no, you weren't in it. Moving on..

Joffrey - 17, is he? Might be I'm getting the ages mixed up, but isn't that a little old? Sansa is like 14/15 in the show, right?

Jon - stupid pouty bastard, why are they changing everything? At least they've got Qhorin and the Lord o' Bones to spice things up a bit

Ghost - where are you?

Dragonglass/obsidian - what an absolutely ridiculous scene. It really is as if they'd forgotten about it so tried to slip it in. Stupid.

There's probably more but those are the ones that spring to mind.

Oh, and the word 'c*nt' was also used a ridiculous amount of times in this episode. Don't get me wrong, I like swearing as much as the next person, I just found it weird.

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I believe thats what they're trying to portray. I mean every time Talisa comes on screen, Roose Bolton is with Robb, and you can tell by his facial expressions that he's getting sick of this chick. Foreshadowing his viciousness and oncoming betrayal. Roose Bolton has very little honor. The less honor you have, the better you can play the game :cool4:

It is really less of a "nitpick" and more of an "interesting and new point of view." Reading the books, one thinks of Roose as a butthole, but watching it on screen in HBO, one is forced to consider that he has to watch the daily follies of a king and his mother who are great in the battle field, but have absolutely zero political skill. This is all the more obvious with Jayne/Whatsherface who literally interrupts great lords talking about Winterfell, battle plans, etc, with her pointless nattering.

It is also clear here, that he actively ignores Roose┬┤s advice, when in fact he should be hand.

From this conception it is clear that: 1) Roose offered leal service and was declined, 2) Roose is a rational, careful player of the game and an observer 3) that he observes that the Stark boy is shitting this war down his leg and 4) that he plans to survive the end of this war.

Looking at it this way, I kind of have to side with House Bolton (!!!!!) believe it or not... Which is a very, very strange feeling.

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Can I also point out that what they're doing with Robb isn't an adaptation - it's a complete 180.

In the book, he's torn apart because of honor. His honor as a Stark, Jeyne's honor, and honoring his pact with the Freys.

yet here he's sleeping with Talisa because WAH I DON'T WANT TO MARRY THE FREY GIRL. Honestly, at this rate, Roose stabbing Robb through the heart will be the most honorable thing about this storyline.

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One reason I am seriously frustrated is that the person I (force) to watch the show with me doesn't like it at all. He thinks the romance is cheesy and cliche, and the Robb/Talisa dialogue just went overboard (he fell asleep during her story). I just kept saying while he eyerolled, "this is NOT the books I love." It makes me defensive of the books, because GRRM is not a cheesy romance writer, not even close, and that is one of the many reasons that I love him. There is no way in a billion years that GRRM would write a storyline like the one between Talisa and Robb. I'm not kidding when I think there are tons of people with no real television writing experience that could produce something better than that. It is atrocious on every level. Even my friend who loves T&A at every opportunity in the show was disgusted and disappointed by their scene, saying it was "too forced with no chemistry."

It's hard to believe that book Robb, a 15 year old boy, is more mature than TV Robb, a grown man. Yes, Robb in the books makes totally foolish decisions, but when he came back to camp with Jeyne he was all business. He had plenty of sex with his wife (and why wouldn't he?), but he was mostly focused on important things, like the damn war. Jeyne was so worried about Robb's intense behavior (he was pacing, not talking to her, completely distracted, etc) that she went to talk to Cat about it. TV Robb? He doesn't give a fuck, honestly. I hope the RW comes sooner than later so we can put an end to this disgusting "romantic tragedy." Blah. And I was so looking forward to this relationship too. Thanks, D&D.

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One reason I am seriously frustrated is that the person I (force) to watch the show with me doesn't like it at all. He thinks the romance is cheesy and cliche, and the Robb/Talisa dialogue just went overboard (he fell asleep during her story). I just kept saying while he eyerolled, "this is NOT the books I love." It makes me defensive of the books, because GRRM is not a cheesy romance writer, not even close, and that is one of the many reasons that I love him. There is no way in a billion years that GRRM would write a storyline like the one between Talisa and Robb. I'm not kidding when I think there are tons of people with no real television writing experience that could produce something better than that. It is atrocious on every level. Even my friend who loves T&A at every opportunity in the show was disgusted and disappointed by their scene, saying it was "too forced with no chemistry." It's hard to believe that book Robb, a 15 year old boy, is more mature than TV Robb, a grown man. Yes, Robb in the books makes totally foolish decisions, but when he came back to camp with Jeyne he was all business. He had plenty of sex with his wife (and why wouldn't he?), but he was mostly focused on important things, like the damn war. Jeyne was so worried about Robb's intense behavior (he was pacing, not talking to her, completely distracted, etc) that she went to talk to Cat about it. TV Robb? He doesn't give a fuck, honestly. I hope the RW comes sooner than later so we can put an end to this disgusting "romantic tragedy." Blah. And I was so looking forward to this relationship too. Thanks, D&D.

I'm not trying to be rude or mean, but why do you watch the show? And why do you force this other person to watch the show, because they seem to make the experience even worst for you?

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I'm not trying to be rude or mean, but why do you watch the show? And why do you force this other person to watch the show, because they seem to make the experience even worst for you?

Well, I won't get into details of why I "force" them to watch the show (basically - they do it voluntarily because they know how much I like it, but I still feel like I'm forcing them at times). I watch the show because for the most part because I love it. This past episode really blew my mind, I thought it was awesome how they were able to correct a lot of previous errors and bring a lot of things together nicely. There was definitely some good writing, and a lot of dialogue pulled from the books, which I also appreciate. I also love Theon's arc, Jaime and Brienne, Sansa, Tyrion, Arya, pretty much everyone except for Robb's storyline. Just because I am really frustrated by that part of the show, does that mean I should stop watching it? Apparently, you think so, and the comment is a little rude. I guess every time I'm frustrated with any aspect of a show I should just stop watching it completely.

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Guys, Karstark's mention of The Father does not mean that he worships the Seven. He was suggesting just how far he'd go to get his sons back, even if it meant praying to a religion he does not worship.

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Karstark made his reference to the Father for Catelyn's benefit I think. It's a pretty odd piece of dialogue though.

But yeah, cutting corners to get to the same place is one thing, what we got here another.

So far Jon has been an rebellious trainee, a terrible Steward and an even worse Ranger. By the end of Season 4 he needs to be Lord-Commander of the Night's Watch. He has a hell of a lot of catching up to do too Book Jon.

Arya I get, it was pretty contrived how she kept going for the lowest of low echelon soldiers with her death sentences and afterwards was lamenting that she should just gone "Joffrey, Cersei, Tywin, Go!"

Here we see why she feels she can't just kill Tywin, he's keeping her and the other captives alive because of he sees the use in them as a working force, Jaqen also doesn't show the full depth of his talents until this episode and the Tickler and Amory Lorch are way more high profile targets then the cook and the other guy she offed. So that's all cool.

But Arya is now walking out of Harrenhal having had no hand in its capture for the North and her hands are waaay clearner then in the books. There's still time, the last episode will be called Valar Morgulis so 'kay. She better kill some lions tho.

Robb's a lost cause i guess. Every episode we see Tywin at his dinner table lamenting Robb's battle prowess, every episode we see Robb at his camp trying to get with Jeyne. He's not totally disinterested in the war and I get that this format allows for Robb to actually fall in love with Jeyne instead of meeting her, fucking and marrying her all in 24 hours, that would've come off on tv even worse. But Madden is way too old for us to see this a kids mistake. And he's suppose to lose the war with the loss of the Kingslayer and the marriage to Jeyne. We might be stuck with this mess for another 12 episodes before RW by some peoples estimates. Robb shouldn't be getting months to recover from this mistake before his death.

Catelyn is just not as smart as she is in the books. In the books Catelyn is second only to Tyrion in giving us the inside scope on the political rammifications of this and that. Here, she's a mother talking to her son, she's not used as the exposition window Tyrion and Small Council is, but she still makes all her mistakes.

And why the hell don't people know Bran and Rickon are dead yet? What is gained from this, seriously? I really have no clue.

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The weasel soup is fundamentally silly. All I remember about it was that they poured it on some people and then slaughter happened. The basic idea behind the scene, "Girl is greedy", is what they needed to get down. Obviously they didn't that either, but people must get what is at the heart of a scene rather than just what was presented the first time around. The Jeyne changes are to make us give a shit. You can argue if it's executed well, but the original story was lame. Robb finds girl after she heals him, Robb falls in love. I seriously had no reason to care for Jeyne in the books, no real position on her place in society, and no reason to care about Robb's decision as it related to himself but rather how it related to the rest of the North. If you just did that (and off screen, no less) it would be the most boring story in the entire TV show.

I think that GRRM put the Robb/Jeyne love story offscreen because to him, Robb was not one of the most important characters in ASoIaF, and Jeyne Westerling, though influential through Robb's interaction with her, was not particularly important either. Personally, I think Robb's sowing the seeds of his own doom and that of his mother and many retainers and bannermen as well, for an attractive but not outstanding young thing just because he was an honorable man, is ironic and interesting. The relationship could have been explored much in the book; not as a pulse-pounding great love affair, i.e. the Young Wolf, the King in the North, falling for a fascinating, strong-willed charismatic girl, but as something more human and believable - the King in the North revealed as a troubled boy, turning to this pleasant young girl who he likes but does not love, for comfort when he is injured and (if I remember right) saddened by his brothers' death, and then having to decide how to best uphold Stark honor - to keep his betrothal to the unknown Frey girl, or cleave to the young girl who he has just dishonored. I would have found such a storyline in the TV series far more believable than the much too modern romance of Robb and Talisa-the-feisty-nurse.

I didn't miss the weasel soup episode either. I did miss Arya killing the guard (or was he a groom, I can't remember); it was another milestone in her transformation from Ned Stark's honorable child to a callous killer.

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Guys, Karstark's mention of The Father does not mean that he worships the Seven. He was suggesting just how far he'd go to get his sons back, even if it meant praying to a religion he does not worship.

Okay I can see that, but why bother? It just seems like another change that the producers just don't care about. I know it can see silly, us fussing over little details, but if I were GRRM, I'd be majorly pissed off at all these deviations from something he's been working so hard on for year. I'm mostly pissed off because the changes are pointless and ridiculous.

I'm not trying to be rude or mean, but why do you watch the show? And why do you force this other person to watch the show, because they seem to make the experience even worst for you?

This is 'nitpick without repercussion'. See the rest of the forum for jumping down people's throats about their opinions. Except Rhymes, it's all fun and games there :D

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Okay, after having a re-watch of the episode I have a few remarks suitable for this thread:

In the corresponding thread last week I suggested the wildings conveniently capture Qhorin as well so that Jon can be ordered to defect to the wildings. I was being sarcastic! Lame solution storywise.

Also, some weeks ago it was pointed out that a top-notch group of rangers are trying to move around unseen in snow-clad waste wearing black! Maybe the rangers were surprised they were seen first, but I doubt anyone else is.

The leisurely stroll Robb and Nurse-girl was having, was that before or after the Crag had surrendered? And the common soldier now greets Nurse-girl as Milady just after addressing his king?

Speaking of Nurse-girl, some badly written dialouge (rather monolouge!) makes her a good deal older than she ought to be: Her drowning story were set when Nurse-girl was 12 year old during the hottest day of a "three year summer". Fine, but current summer is a record ten year long summer, meaning she was 12 year old during the previous summer. Making her at least, if not more than, mid-twenties. Unless the winters are different over on Essos?

Tywin Freaking Lannister, what has he been doing this season so far? Yes, I know, playing Daddy Warbucks for Little Orphan Arya at Harrenhal. But he has been sitting at Harrenhal without doing much about Robb having an armed camp in the Westerlands. Tywin has not been doing much about Robb, and seemingly it hasn't crossed his mind to head down to King's Landing to help defending it. So now he moves? With Stannis just a few days away? And starting with a night march to trick enemy scouts? Honestly, the writers are really dumbing him down, are they not?

Everything that has been said about Arya, the lacking defenses at KL,Karstak and the Father, Osha sneaking around Winterfell in open daylight, the pointless scene with Dany and most other nitpicks I agree with. I am willing to give the writers some leeway changing things, but they have to fit it into a coherent storyline, and they fail bigtime there.

I am getting tired of remarks about "The Game". Last week Theon calimed it's all a game, this week Tyrion and Varys talked about it like it's the important thing that everything else is beneath. If they want to make the show about 'The Game' they need more than a few measly remarks and put some real storytelling into it.

Finally, I think we should get some moderators to enforce the purpose of this thread to keep the apologist posts to a minimum.

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Dany/Jorah - lame/cheesy.....sick of hearing her talk about being a "mother."

But she is a mother. Moreso in the books, but she's still very much the mother of her dragons in the show.

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So no Sansa yet again. Given that she should actually have a lot of scenes in ASOS I really don't understand moving her escape story with Dontos to Season 3.

They have so dropped the ball on that thread of the story. Why bother introducing Dontos in episode one if you're not going to highlight that relationship? This season has been a mess in comparison to season one. So many unecessary changes.

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They have so dropped the ball on that thread of the story. Why bother introducing Dontos in episode one if you're not going to highlight that relationship? This season has been a mess in comparison to season one. So many unecessary changes.

I'm praying that Sansa is given her due in the Blackwater episode - not just the Sandor scene, but the scene where she shows her courage in keeping up the ladies' morale after Cersei bolts. But I probably will be lucky just to see three minutes of Sandor holding a knife to Sansa's throat and maybe her singing; due to more scenes of Talisa telling anecdotes of her childhood to Robb while they have more sex. (though I didn't mind the sex scene, it was nice to have some unadulterated and mutually desired lust rather than rape, exploitation, torture, etc. It's just the Talisa character I can't stand.)

If the writers are smart, they'll have Sansa get the letter and come to the Godswood and meet Dontos in the 10th episode, giving her hope that she will be able to escape King's Landing...I just wish there had been more development of the Sandor/Sansa relationship in the series. I don't think of it as necessarily the romance of the ages, but it's a powerful and compelling relationship, one that's far more interesting than Robb and Talisa. (but then, to me, watching paint dry would be more interesting than watching Robb & Talisa scenes, so I'm biased.)

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The thing is that one of the most poignant aspects of Robb's story was precisely the incredible cost of a decision made so purely out of honor, rather than real knowledge of Jeyne or even necessarily true affection for her. It was so Ned. He married her because he had compromised her own honor, and in doing so, damaged his with the most far-reaching of consequences. This is exactly what I love most about the storyline and it is killing me to see them change it.

EXACTLY. This story is so heart and gut-wrenching....I hate what they've done with it. The shock of his marriage was brilliant to read- kills you but at the same time you get it- the impossibility of his situation, his loneliness, his age and lack of experience...the pathos!!! All ruined.

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I have a pretty idiotic nitpick

The wildling about to gut Jon was using a pretty modern day stainless steel blade with a futuristic shape

I mean tv show wildlings have pretty neat blades and some awsome modern day - winter/ snow cammouflage pattern uniforms

I mean WTF this arent wildlings they are SpecOps dudes, the Delta Force of Mance Ryder

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