Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 George has showed us. Death and guest right don't mean so much as they used too. You think he really wasted all that plot on jon just to have him fall on his mission. No I think he needs to be even more driven and we see that death can lead to that. With lady stoneheart and lord beric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I think the pink letter is 100% true from Ramsey's point of view. He wrote it in an arrogant furor when his "victory" over Stannis, failed to turn up what he really wants, Reek (his favorite toy), and really needs, "Arya" (Until she bears him a son Winterfell is vulnerable). I think he, probably at Roose's suggestion, sent a second raven to the Wall, to Thorne, who then got Marsh and Co to do what they did. "For the Watch" Who knows what the Boltons promised? Food? Help getting rid of the Wildlings? Thorne , of course, is the next LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Idk. You think thornes just skulking castle black till jon is out of the picture? I see itbmore that thorne would come back with blue eyes. The wights remember. He said so himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I must say this is a really good post. The Reek part was very interesting. I also think that the part on the letter was one of the best i have read about the topic. The only minor part I disagree with is that rams wrote the letter in order to draw Jon out, I just don't see Jon's reaction being the desired on and i think if it had eventuated then it would have shocked rams. Think about it he is saying that he no longer has Jon's sister and so why would Jon suddenly go after him? I get he threatens the NW but staying put or setting ambushes (which is what the wildlings would be best at) would make more sense then marching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 You really think the bastard of bolton is a master at anything? So what he's a good liar and a sneak so he decieved a pompous theon. the master is roose. Our proof with that is the red wedding and his manuvering to get the bastard legitamized. But none the less I think with the letter we are seeing ramasy fall apart at the seams. His rage with loosing his toys is almost palapable. And his lies and truths are just an obvious ploy to decieve lord snow into coming to him. And then we have jon's reaction which is very unlike him. And he pays for that. What got jon all in a tivy was that the bastard said he would cut out his heart and eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Dustin opens those crypts - she knows the Starks well. She defends Theon against Ramsay and Roose and tries to maintain a peace at WF. Theon fears her nonchalance as a woman who knows of winter, for she says, "Let winter do its worst." Theon fears the old gods are listening, and we know they are, and Lady Dustin has no guilty consience regarding inciting them. [she may not have told Theon the complete truth in the crypts]I do know some of Martin's terms - I thought he may be using green as he uses other words or phrases, like "other", "snow," "no one."Which brings me to another point, aren’t Roose and Ramsay and their wedding guests violating the laws of hospitality by taking up residence in a castle with no living Stark in Winterfell? Fake ones do not count unless they are the real ones in disguise. Neither does ravens and weirwood faces.Where is Mormont's raven? He mysteriously disappears sometime during Jon and Tormund's "two hour" discussion after receiving the Bolton letter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 You think they care about the laws of hospitality? Look at the red wedding. Roose was clearly a guest with the starks but he made it out cause it was his plan. And they are trying to trick the northmen. So what are they gunna just be like we can't go to wf our arya is a fake. That's a stretch and a half to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 how about, LF knows about the piece of paper that makes Jon heir to everything Robb had. Of course LF would like Sansa to be heir to the north, so he quickly writes the pink letter and sends it to the Wall, in order to provoke chaos. We all know LF thrives on chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 jon could of had winterfell if he wanted it. stannis offered winterfell. The godswood prevented that though. jon refused to be lord commander of nw. throwing little finger into that is a stetch. The letter is obviously ramsay's rage and confusion from a faux karstark letter and from catching mance and the spearwives. Jon says there is truth here. Unless mance rayder sent it for mel. The only other option I see is ramsay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 And theon was definitely castrated. He says he is a eunuch and that he took that away from him but he didn't need it anyway. Obvously he skinned theon's dick. Along with some fingers ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry lettuce Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 There is something about the Weirwood on the island that only Asha knows about.I also agree with this. I first thought of that from this quote though:"You have no high ground here, no walls to hide beyond, no natural defences.""Yet." (says Stannis)"Yet," both ravens screamed in unison. Then one quorked and the other muttered, "Tree, tree, tree."How does the word tree come in a discussion about defences? It was not a word anyone had mentioned before (in the chapter) that they could have mimicked. There is a chance that they heard it from maester Tybald (was he discussing about the tree in front of them? A trap? I dont think so). The crow is almost saying that the tree will be their defence.Also I do not think that Asha would have asked for such a death for Theon. She could have asked that he is given to the Drowned God (there's a lake right?). I think she might have gotten a feeling, or a dream or even the "rustling of the leaves" made her propose to Stannis to take Theon there.Edit: and I do think Bran/BR is behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrinceOfSunspear Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 And theon was definitely castrated. He says he is a eunuch and that he took that away from him but he didn't need it anyway. Obvously he skinned theon's dick. Along with some fingers ;PWho is "he" and where does he say that explicity? There are vague references made but I don't think its fully stated and I think GRRM did that on purpose. Perhaps leading us on....Either way though Theon is a wreck of a man. With the missing toes/fingers and all. I feel bad for him. But at the same time he deserves/deserved every single bit of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budj Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 How the tree can be a Defense - Jon was coming - albeit to WF and not Stannis, but got stabbed. King's blood could raise him - sacrifice Theon to the trees. The maester sent a map via Raven to WF....BR/Bran seem to warg those ravens pretty easily. They bring the map to the wall and Jon knows where to go. He pulls a "Renly's ghost" and smashes the Frey forces. Manderly's forces turn cloak on Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Who is "he" and where does he say that explicity? There are vague references made but I don't think its fully stated and I think GRRM did that on purpose. Perhaps leading us on....Either way though Theon is a wreck of a man. With the missing toes/fingers and all. I feel bad for him. But at the same time he deserves/deserved every single bit of it.He says he doesn't want "them" to see. Inrefrence to his genetails. Seemed typical of ramasay to make him less than a man a eunuch was created to serve goes back thousands of years like in china...anyways THEON said he didn't need that anyway probably because he sees himself as reek and has no reason to creat heirs. But if he has his parts. Theon that is :P they kept them so he could make kids still. But ramasy wants to dominate him to take away his manhood is quite a punishment fo the crimes he did, which in no way compares to the bastard himself....but its like people just want his character to be beddable...and HE is theon..wondering who he is that's just patronizing.........since the first sentence stated it clearly. Oh well if he does or doesn't your correct he that is quite a wreck. In my opinion he will most likely die. Soon enough. Unless bran saves him. Stannis is all about justice we know that. Or the bastard. He might get his hands on "his" reek. I'd like to see theon in the watch though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerpunk Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I hope your right, I mean yeah Theon did some bad things but I don't think he deserved to be de-cocked. I think GRRM left it so vague so that he could keep the possibility of Theon having a kid alive.Theon has probably fathered a few bastards already so no worries there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3CityApache Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 She could have asked that he is given to the Drowned God (there's a lake right?). I don't think it would suffice. The Drowned God is definitely a sea god, with salted water and all, not just "any kind of water" god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey Snow Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I like this. I didn't read through all 50,000 old posts either, but I haven't seen anyone else post the the part about drawing Bolton out of the Winterfell before (as opposed to tricking him into letting them inside Winterfell). They could be drawing him out to retake the castle, or even to ambush his men as they travel to the wall. Also, I agree with that part about demanding Theon back. If the Bolton's had in fact won the battle, Ramsey would either know what happened to Theon (if he's killed at the Godswood), or know that he was one of the captives (of course it is possible Theon escaped in the chaos).One thing: what if Theon admits that he didn't kill the Stark boys right before he's beheaded, and Stannis allows him to take the black, and that's why Ramsey thinks he's at the Wall? I would really hate it if that were the case, but it seems possible.I can't wait to see where this goes though. GRRM has set up SO many possibilities.If manderly parlys with Stannis before Theon is executed, he could tell Stannis that Rickon is alive. Thus absolving Theon of those crimes... Though the Miller's boys will always haunt him as they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liam DarkStark Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I don't think it would suffice. The Drowned God is definitely a sea god, with salted water and all, not just "any kind of water" god.I wouldn't say that cause Asha even says all water leads to the sea. And when theon executed men at winterfell in the name of the drowned god he drowned them in a bucket of water. Only at torrhen's square did he take them to the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfan Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 IIRC, it was implied that Theon fathered a bastard on the miller's wife, which means that he killed his own bastard son when he killed the two boys to pass for Bran and Rickon.The two orphan boys weren't the miller's wife's kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtnLion Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 The two orphan boys weren't the miller's wife's kids.Heh, you are mixing screenplay and canon. In the screenplay Bran gives two orphan boys to the miller before Theon takes Winterfell. The same miller is where Theon finds the two boys, but where is Ramsay in the screenplay? It was Ramsay's idea in canon, and the boys were born of the miller's wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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