[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I, Part 5

[Samwell Trollsbane]

Hey, can anyone tell me where I can find the Arianne II Chapter? aSoIaF is like crack, and I need any fix I can get

[Lebronn Jaime]

Hey, can anyone tell me where I can find the Arianne II Chapter? aSoIaF is like crack, and I need any fix I can get

You can find a summary in the first Arianne II thread on this sub-forum. There is no recording, text, or transcript of the content available.

[Usurper's Dog]

After reading the Reek chapters in DWD I am no longer sure it was starvation that made Lady Hornwood eat her fingers.

I'm curious to know that else would have made her do that? Just plain madness?

[Lebronn Jaime]

Theon/Reek recalls that the pain from flayed fingers was so great that he tried to bite one off. I think grillmeister is suggesting that Ramsey may have subjected Lady Hornwood to some flaying.

[mrlukeduke]

Why mutually exclusive? It was likely a mixture of hunger, madness and despair, and pure unending pain. Ramsey is a truly psychopathic torturer.

[Usurper's Dog]

Why mutually exclusive? It was likely a mixture of hunger, madness and despair, and pure unending pain. Ramsey is a truly psychopathic torturer.

While we're on the subject of insane Ramsey, can somebody tell me if there is any direct textual evidence that Theon was castrated? I've seen that idea thrown around on these forums but never seen anybody explain specifically why they think that.

Yes, Ramsey (and Theon for that matter) consistently say that Theon is "not even a man any longer". Is this the most evidence we have?

I think the answer to this question will actually play a significant role in the upcoming books. If Theon has truly lost his "manhood", then he truly has even LESS to lose than I thought - in my mind setting him up for one final act of epic redemption (way more epic that saving FArya).

[Boss Wyman Manderly]

Here's pretty much what I have building up the plot after the Theon sample chapter.

1) Stannis doesn't have ravens to send to Jon at the wall however he did find two ravens that are trained to fly to Winterfell thanks to the Karstarks. Ravens can only fly to one castle typically IMO He has used the Karstarks to his advantage by ending a raven to Winterfell followed by the Karstarks and his sword meanwhile he has kept most of them a prisoners until the ones he intends to spare proves their loyalty.

Manderly will most certainly bathe in Frey blood 100 yards from Stannis camp before declaring for Stannis marching back to Winterfell with some Karstarks to collaborate the story and prepare for his next cunning maneuver.

Also,

Theon's WOW chapter makes me believe it will be his last...Stannis needed (Theon told him he couldn't hope to match the forces coming his away forcing to feign his death) and on top of that you have his own sister begging for his death for the old gods right before the northern lords are about to beg for justice.

Crackpot: Theon has Kings blood and Damphair and his godless man and storms god wrath perhaps the sacrifice helps Bran call on the Storm god to make the North it's own land mass like the COTF wanted to when they flooded the neck only this time it works and the point of impact is at the Iron Island across to the Twin Towers of Frey,

[Boss Wyman Manderly]

@usurpers dog iirc read the part where Ramsay bedding Jeyne it is implied quite heavily by Theon's choice of words

[mrlukeduke]

Manderly will most certainly bathe in Frey blood 100 yards from Stannis camp before declaring for Stannis marching back to Winterfell with some Karstarks to collaborate the story and prepare for his next cunning maneuver.

I'm a bit worried about the health of Lord Manderly though, since his skirmish with the Freys. What if that wound of his festered? Anyway, I hope he makes it to Stannis. The North remembers.

[mcb]

After reading the Reek chapters in DWD I am no longer sure it was starvation that made Lady Hornwood eat her fingers.

Clearly. It didn't make sense right from the beginning: even people literally dying from starvation usually don't try to eat their own fingers. Rats, leather boots, grass, other people, all of it is possible, but they do not bite off pieces of their own flesh.

[TyrionsFlagon]

It could just be a rumor, about her eating her fingers. At first thought it makes sense that someone would eat their fingers out of starvation.

Maybe she died someother way and Ramsay just lied about how she died. Maybe he stuck a knife in her and was afraid to admit to killing her with such mercy, so then he lied and told everyone about how cruel he was and how crazy she went.

[ipsuel]

It could just be a rumor, about her eating her fingers. At first thought it makes sense that someone would eat their fingers out of starvation.

Maybe she died someother way and Ramsay just lied about how she died. Maybe he stuck a knife in her and was afraid to admit to killing her with such mercy, so then he lied and told everyone about how cruel he was and how crazy she went.

I assumed she ate her fingers after them being flayed... based on the pain Theon describes feeling after being flayed.

[( Bloodraven )]

Small question, Crowfood was the one who sent Theon to Stannis, right? How did he know Stannis' location?

[jarl the climber]

Small question, Crowfood was the one who sent Theon to Stannis, right? How did he know Stannis' location?

The Iron Bank guy took Theon to Stannis. I guess some scouts made contact, Karstark knew where to find Stannis as well.

[( Bloodraven )]

The Iron Bank guy took Theon to Stannis. I guess some scouts made contact, Karstark knew where to find Stannis as well.

I see! I guess it's possible that they did made contact.

Theon twisted in his chains, and blinked down at the king. "Crowfood found us, yes, he sent us here to you, but it was me who saved her. Ask her yourself."

Which might mean Stannis got the idea from him (or vice versa) to dig pits and trap the coming army.

Crowfood set his boys to digging pits outside the castle gates, then blew his horn to lure Lord Bolton out. Instead he got the Freys. The snow had covered up the pits, so they rode right into them.

I can't wait for this! :D

[kingofashes]

Also I do not think that Asha would have asked for such a death for Theon. She could have asked that he is given to the Drowned God (there's a lake right?). I think she might have gotten a feeling, or a dream or even the "rustling of the leaves" made her propose to Stannis to take Theon there.

It's about Asha trying to save Theon from the flames. I think being beheaded by a sword is a kinder death than being burnt alive.

She also asks for this instead of drowning because she knows Stannis is doing it to please the northern lords, so she asks to give him their death and to their gods.

[Crono.gr]

I think Theon deserves to leave. He have been through a terrible situation. He had paid for his crimes. 2 roads for him: Die for a purpose (Jon snow's ress) or rise harder and stronger and return to iron islands to take what is ours creating an alliance with Asha.

He is one of the most awesome characters of the books, he has more mind than the other male iron men. I hope he will wake up and give us moments of awesomeness!!!

[Humphrey Plantagenet]

Stannis knows that approximately half of Bolton's force is on their way to him, with the other half holed up in Winterfell. He's uncovered Karstark's betrayal and has the two ravens that are trained to fly to Winterfell. He smashes the Freys, most likely with the help of Manderley's forces, and sends word by raven of victory and conspires with Manderley for Manderley to return with "proof" of Stannis' death, which perhaps explains the "7 days of battle" in the letter. In addition to proof, Manderly also returns with word that Arya Stark and Reek had been sent on to the Wall for protection. This is when Ramsay sends the letter to Castle Black. Most likely Manderley's forces will have been "decimated" (while in reality most of them joined Stannis' forces) so the Boltons know they will have to march on the Wall to get back Arya/Jeyne, since she's their only legitimate claim to Winterfell and there is no chance the Lord Commander will return her to them.

Meanwhile, Stannis' and Manderley's forces march up the Kingsroad to Winterfell and take the now lightly guarded castle, trapping Bolton's forces between Winterfell and the Wall.

I think the key piece of evidence is that Ramsay asks for Reek. If Stannis truly had been defeated, then Ramsay would have had Theon, since Stannis certainly wasn't going to release him, or at the least, Ramsay would have found out that Theon had been executed. The Boltons and Freys are about to receive their comeuppance.

1. Stannis and Manderlay combine to slaughter the Frey force.

2. Manderlay returns, with some of Stannis' men dressed as Freys proclaiming victory (with Stannis' sword in hand, as proof).

3. Ramsay writes his letter to Jon Snow.

4. Later that night the gates are opened to allow the remainder of Stannis' men and the remaining Northmen inside to storm the castle while most of the Bolton men are asleep.

5. I also imagine as all of this is going on, many of the Northerners on the Bolton's side will switch allegiance (quite willingly, at that).

I’d happily see things play out in either of these ways. What I really hope is that Ramsay wrote the pink letter wrongly believing that Stannis had been defeated & killed and completely unaware that he’s been played.

“Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell.” As well as putting some of Stannis’ men in Frey gear to accompany the Maderlays &“lightbringer” back to Winterfell, I hope they dressed some dead Freys up as Stannis supporters to provide extra proof of his host having been “smashed”. Given he came up with the plan to spike the wrong heads when Bran and Rickon escaped it’d be sweet if he fell for the same ploy even as he’s taken down.

My concern is Roose. I can see Ramsay falling for a scam along the lines of those above, but even if the “evidence” seems compelling that Stannis has been defeated I think Roose will be very, very sceptical. If Roose is still at Winterfell with Ramsay I think he understands the value of holding it and is too cautious to do anything which would weaken the force holding it.

[rohit39]

I believe this might have been covered before, but when Theon sees a letter on Stannis' table with a broken seal of black wax (presumably the letter Jon Snow sent along with the Bravoosi Banker), why does Theon think "I know what that says" and then giggles.

Or am i missing a trick here?

[MtnLion]

I believe this might have been covered before, but when Theon sees a letter on Stannis' table with a broken seal of black wax (presumably the letter Jon Snow sent along with the Bravoosi Banker), why does Theon think "I know what that says" and then giggles.

Or am i missing a trick here?

Theon is present when Roose mentions that he is plotting with Karstarks to stab Stannis in the back.