NBA Playoffs 2012 - Prelude to Punches

[Guest]

I would like to thank the ownership of New Jersey for the 6th pick. Nice. Portland has the 6th and 11th picks, and was named one of the "winners" of the lottery after New Orleans.

Things is...Portland is still sans GM and has been for a while, and Paul Allen is always hard to figure both w/ management and personal health.

[BLU-RAY]

Prokhorov is a disaster. Anyhow, Greywolf (that is you, right?), I agree with your call on the criticism that LeBron gets; I just think that was a bad basketball decision. He's like two-and-a-half times Rondo's size and fast as hell; he should go for the layup there.

Nice job by the C's tonight, though, they were extremely strong.

[Jaime L]

What's great about the Conference Finals is each night you get reminded how the other conference plays. Cause it's really like night and day right now. San Antonio plays beautiful team basketball - the type you on't see anywhere else in the league. It's really feels like basketball from a different era where teams were intelligently built with guys with complimentary and varied skillsets. Meanwhile OKC is so explosive that when they're on, and playing smart, there isn't a team out there that can stop them. This is three straight games where the Spurs are trying to match 'em score for score and simply can't...which is amazing considering, y'know, they'd won 20 games in a row before these three.

But then it's the next day and it's the Eastern Conference Finals and it's like a different sport entirely. On the Celtics, Rondo is a kick to watch and I appreciate the Big 3, especially the intensity of Garnett, and yet they're so limited due to age they can explode for 60 in a half and then struggle to reach 90 for the game... including OT. Meanwhile the Heat are the greatest waste of God given talent I've ever seen in the NBA. Why the would Wade and James sign on to play with each other if they were just gonna spend half the game watching the other? Why can't they draw up a single effective play on the last possession of either regulation or OT? There's good defense, sure, but a lot of it is just simple lack of execution. 1 on 5 isos. And they're still the favorites to go to their second straight Finals but if they don't become more efficient, if they don't compliment one another better, I don't see how they got a chance against either of these Western Conference machines.

[BLU-RAY]

The fuck is going on here? The Spurs were playing so much better than this earlier in the playoffs/in the first two games of this series. I realize that Brooks made some nice switches and OKC has been better, but seriously, what the fuck?

Anyway, JL, completely agree about the difference between the two conferences. Problem is, I could totally see Miami beating OKC in the finals... but I might still have OKC underestimated, I picked SA in five for this series. All of my NHL and NBA picks have been disasters thus far this year.

[Jaime L]

Anyway, JL, completely agree about the difference between the two conferences. Problem is, I could totally see Miami beating OKC in the finals... but I might still have OKC underestimated, I picked SA in five for this series. All of my NHL and NBA picks have been disasters thus far this year.

Y'know I was with you on this earlier in the playoffs. Not having watched the Spurs much this year, I felt like this was Miami's year to win it all because I felt like they'd be able to shut down OKC if it came down to it. LeBron and Wade are studs on both ends whereas Durant and co. aren't. And yet watching OKC's explosiveness in this series, I'm not sure anyone can shut 'em down. Durant's got that Nowitzki thing going on where you can cover him perfectly, double team him and he'll still score over you with his length and absurd ability.

Also this series has me thinking I underestimated OKC defensively. I'm like you, I thought the Spurs would roll, but incredibly OKC's figured out how to slow down the Spurs while Pop's got no answers for Durant. Only guy who can shut him down is Westbrook but that point is moot when he's making plays all over the court like tonight. And Harden as an X-factor? That's the final piece that breaks any defense's back. My thinking now is that what they've accomplished in this series, coming back from 2-0 down against a Spurs team that won 20 straight, winning in San Antonio, these all represent the final evolution in the Thunder becoming a team mentally tough enough to win titles. Every young team's has to go through where they're tested by someone who has been there before and they rise to the occasion. The way they've risen in this series is not something I can say I ever recall Miami doing against an opponent this good. I think they've turned a corner but they're still going to have prove it by driving a final stake in SA's heart (I don't think they go down easy) and then beating whoever they face in the Finals.

[Maithanet]

Also this series has me thinking I underestimated OKC defensively.

I think that Westbrook, Harden and Durant are all decent, but by no means great defenders. But the issue is that the Thunder also have Sefolosha, Ibaka and Perkins, who are great defenders and strong on the glass. If the Celtics look like they're wearing out the Heat, I imagine these three will be much too much. The Heat rely on finishing at the rim. With Perkins size, Ibaka's shot blocking and Sefolosha's ball pressure, I think they can bring a lot more challenges than Dallas could last year. And unless Miami's defense can really create turns and stops against the explosive Thunder offense, it's gonna be a short series.

And all that's assuming that Miami can indeed finish off the Celtics, which I'm not 100% convinced they can.

As for Spurs/Thunder, I do think it's age. Duncan and Ginobli both show flashes of greatness for a quarter or so, but cannot sustain it when they are playing every other night. And while the first two games the passing was just magical, the adjustments they made have really limited the 3 ball, and that's been the difference.

[Jaime L]

I think that Westbrook, Harden and Durant are all decent, but by no means great defenders. But the issue is that the Thunder also have Sefolosha, Ibaka and Perkins, who are great defenders and strong on the glass. If the Celtics look like they're wearing out the Heat, I imagine these three will be much too much.

Agree on what Sefolosha, Ibaka and Perkins bring. Ibaka especially impresses me. He's like one of those Tyson Chandler presences in the middle you need to win a ring. And his ability to consistently drain the 15 footer has broken the Spurs back on several occasions. Still don't get why the Celtics let Perkins go, but his presence means that Ibaka can get in early foul trouble and they're still stout in the middle. They'll need both to fill the lane against Lebron and Wade drives if they meet in the finals.

What's interesting is looking at the +/- from the last three games, the Spurs are just getting destroyed whenever they bring in their subs. This was the deepest team all year, but when Neal, Blair, Bonner or Splitter enter the game they get run off the court.by the Thunder because of the athleticism difference. They tightened to bascially a 6 man rotation last night and started Ginoblii who played great but it still wasn't enough. Pop sounded like a coach who's run out of arrows in his quiver.

[Greywolf2375]

With the board having been down, a lot has happened in a few days.

At the outset, it looked like Miami & SA were on a collision course. SA makes a huge comeback to win game one, blow out game two. 3 games later, SA is one or two lucky bounces from not having been bounced out 4-1.

Similar with Boston - Miami. Wade gets called for face raking Rondo in game 2 and right now the C's are up 3-1.

I think SA-OKC goes 7 now with SA taking it in a war.

C's- Heat. I think the C's do what OKC did - win on the road. Back in Boston, Heat take it and it goes back to Miami. The only chance Boston does have is if they can win the next one - they need that game in hand because Bosh is going to be back this series and he can slow down what Garnett has been able to do. If the C's are up 3-2 though I think they can muster enough to win one of the final two games - winning two in a row though would be a stretch even for as well as Rondo & Garnett are playing and Allen/Pierce getting healthier.

[Guest]

That was so awesome to see Boston take that one in Miami.

It was amazing how lazy Miami was getting back on D at times. Game 5 at home and you can't hustle?

Does Miami have any offensive plays, or is it just LeBron or Wade goes one-on-one and occasionally dishes out every time down the court? I realize that's actually not the worst strategy in the world considering the talent of those two, but damn.

If they lose this next game, I can't imagine that Spoelstra survives. The next question is whether the big three stays together or whether they think some trade makes them better.

Shadenfreude is nice.

[Bastard of Boston]

Loving the fire the C's are showing. Ashamed to say I was one of the people who had doubts. Fuck me.

[Greywolf2375]

Loving the fire the C's are showing. Ashamed to say I was one of the people who had doubts. Fuck me.

How could you not have doubts about the Celtics beating Miami going into this series? Miami was down Bosh, but Pierce & Allen were hobbled, the C's have no bench. The Heat were rightly favored in this series. And still were till they choked it out last night.

Last night for the Heat was game 4 of the Heat-Pacers series over again. The Pacers had the Heat backing towards the corner but the Heat came out and steam rolled them. The C's had the Heat closer to the ropes and came back for their knockout punch...up 15ish at home, in the 2nd half.

And then couldn't find anyone for the Heimlich. It's been said a number of times - remove the faces & uniforms and watch the game tape. the older, slower C's are the ones to the loose balls, fighting off the boards. I thought the C's would win and the Heat win tomorrow. Now, watching how the Heat crumbled, how Bosh was pretty much useless and how Pierce & Allen are healthier - I will be surprised if they do not close out tomorrow. The Celtics actually got bench contribution.

Oh, and it's a big, nationally televised game. Rondo will come with his big boy pants on.

While you never know what "would have happened"...it's scary to think the Celtics might have been one Wade facerake away from winning the series 4-1.

[Morpheus]

I doubted the Celtics, but come on, they were awful in game one and lost game two despite an excellent effort. I do think they have to close out at home,a game 7 in Miami would be a very tough win.

[Rhom]

I love watching the Celtics mainly because I'm still a big Rondo homer.

My favorite soundbite of the year has to be his response at halftime of game four when asked what holes they were exploiting: "They're too busy crying to the refs and they aren't getting back in transition."

:rofl:

[Jaime L]

Yeah, wow, did not see this coming. I wasn't shocked the Celtics fought back and took two at home because they have serious heart and the whole Boston Garden thing. But thought they were just putting up a valiant effort on the way to the Heat winning in 6. Course this flips the script now. And as easy (and fun!) as it is to just to blast the Heat for wilting, I think this is really more about the Celtics. If it's possible, I think Kevin Garnett is vastly underrated at this point in his career. The way he freelances on defense, rebounds, clogs up passing lanes and is always exactly where Lebron and Wade least want to see it...it's a thing of beauty. Watching him play, I think he does more to help his team win than anyone in the playoffs except Lebron and Durant.

Anyway if teams hold serve (and I'm not yet at all sure they do) we're going to get a Celtics-Thunder finals which is both totally unexpected and just bizarre.The battle of the Kevins would be fun and Rondo v. Westbrook would be entertaining, but it would just be hard to imagine the Celtics being able to slow the Thunder down enough to keep pace. But I'm getting ahead of myself....tonight should be fascinating...

[Maithanet]

I am still hoping for Heat-Thunder, just because it would be a lot of fun. And the Heat absolutely can win two in a row to pull it out, although I have no idea if they will. Agree that there was some half-assing it on defense from Miami, which is completely inexplicable at this point. When they got their half court D set, they were still quite solid, but they gave up transition baskets off makes at the other end. Unforgivable.

If it turns out to be Thunder-Celtics, I think that the Thunder will roll over them. The mismatches that have been crippling the Heat (Rondo and Garnett) would be minimized, because OKC has two different defenders to throw at each of them.

It looks to me like this is OKC's year. The only team that really gave them big matchup problems were the Spurs. Maybe Pop can pull something off to turn this around...we'll see.

[Greywolf2375]

If it turns out to be Thunder-Celtics, I think that the Thunder will roll over them. The mismatches that have been crippling the Heat (Rondo and Garnett) would be minimized, because OKC has two different defenders to throw at each of them.

It looks to me like this is OKC's year. The only team that really gave them big matchup problems were the Spurs. Maybe Pop can pull something off to turn this around...we'll see.

The irony of Perkins on Garnett would not be small. He really has been the difference since no one on Miami can match up - as great as Rondo has been, the C's are done if Garnett doesn't play like he is 23. The thing that is amazing me is that the C's are pushing the Heat without Bradley there as a stopper.

I'd love to see a Spurs - Celtics final just to get Timmy on the court with KG.

JL - I'm not sure about the C's not being able to slow down the Thunder. That was one of the Heat's biggest strengths and right now the Celtics are in control of that. I think what the Thunder (among other things) do have that the Heat do not in these situations is a guy who will make Jimmy McGinty happy:

"Winners always want the ball....when the game is on the line"

[Maithanet]

The irony of Perkins on Garnett would not be small. He really has been the difference since no one on Miami can match up - as great as Rondo has been, the C's are done if Garnett doesn't play like he is 23. The thing that is amazing me is that the C's are pushing the Heat without Bradley there as a stopper.

I'd love to see a Spurs - Celtics final just to get Timmy on the court with KG.

JL - I'm not sure about the C's not being able to slow down the Thunder. That was one of the Heat's biggest strengths and right now the Celtics are in control of that. I think what the Thunder (among other things) do have that the Heat do not in these situations is a guy who will make Jimmy McGinty happy:

"Winners always want the ball....when the game is on the line"

I think that the Thunder can push the pace more effectively than the Heat can. The Heat's MO is playing great halfcourt defense which leads to the fastbreak the other way. Thunder are more about speed, athleticism and depth across the board to push the pace and force mistakes. The Spurs have had far more turnovers this series than any other point in the season, and the reason is they can't compete with the athleticism of OKC (particularly the Spurs bench players). The Celtics have virtually no bench to speak of, and I think that this Heat series will take a toll even if they do prevail. Garnett looks great because the guys guarding him are mismatched from the get-go. Perkins/Ibaka will be another matter entirely.

I think if OKC gets past San Antonio and the Celtics advance, it'll be Thunder in 5.

[Maithanet]

Double

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

If it's possible, I think Kevin Garnett is vastly underrated at this point in his career. The way he freelances on defense, rebounds, clogs up passing lanes and is always exactly where Lebron and Wade least want to see it...it's a thing of beauty. Watching him play, I think he does more to help his team win than anyone in the playoffs except Lebron and Durant.

The Celtics were in an impromptu huddle before the final possessions of last night's game, and Pietrus sort of had this tired look in his eyes and started to wander off. Garnett reached out, grabbed his arm, and pulled him in. Pietrus does the same thing a few seconds later, and Garnett pulls him back hard again. That was a perfect visual representation of the force of personality Garnett brings.

I think that's really the difference between the two teams. The Heat big 3 do care about getting each other involved, but for most of the season, their teammates were an afterthought. The Celtics have emphasized production from the entire roster for the entire season, so guys are ready to step up and contribute when necessary. Garnett doesn't tolerate anything less, but also supports those guys positively. His will dominates that team even apart from his personal play, and I don't think LeBron or Wade has that kind of intangible effect of their team.

[Jaime L]

JL - I'm not sure about the C's not being able to slow down the Thunder. That was one of the Heat's biggest strengths and right now the Celtics are in control of that.

Hey, possibly. They've really shown something this series. Though I do tend to agree with Maith that the Thunder are a different animal and would be a huge test for the Celtics old legs' and limited rotation. If the Celtics were to overcome that, it would be one of the great "heart of a champion" runs we've ever seen in the NBA or really any sport.

The Celtics were in an impromptu huddle before the final possessions of last night's game, and Pietrus sort of had this tired look in his eyes and started to wander off. Garnett reached out, grabbed his arm, and pulled him in. Pietrus does the same thing a few seconds later, and Garnett pulls him back hard again. That was a perfect visual representation of the force of personality Garnett brings.

I think that's really the difference between the two teams. The Heat big 3 do care about getting each other involved, but for most of the season, their teammates were an afterthought. The Celtics have emphasized production from the entire roster for the entire season, so guys are ready to step up and contribute when necessary. Garnett doesn't tolerate anything less, but also supports those guys positively. His will dominates that team even apart from his personal play, and I don't think LeBron or Wade has that kind of intangible effect of their team.

That's a great visual anecdote of what Garnett does for his team and really serves as a night and day contrast to the Heat's leadership vacuum. Or diffused leadership. Because unlike the other teams left, no-one on the Heat gives off the sense of being the guy who will not let their team lose. Whereas Garnett, Ginoblii (even in defeat) and Durant have all had stretches of doing everything humanly possible to lift their team. The Heat failing in the clutch seems to be symptomatic of the larger question of how badly do those guys want it?