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The Martells


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The Martell family seems almost as cursed as the Tullys and Starks everything they have done since ASOS has backfired on them horribly. From Oberyn fighting Gregor, Arrianne trying to make Myrcilla a queen and Quentyn trying to steal the dragons. Now the Sand Snakes are on their way to King's Landing and Arrianne is on her way to meet Aegon VI but will they follow the plans that Doran has created or will they ruin them. Even if they listen to Doran do they have a chance of destroying House Lannister if they side with Aegon and he turns out to be a Blackfyre. I believe Quentyn burned their bridges with Daenerys when he released the dragons on Meereen and the Sand Snakes are to hotheaded to do anything right so the only way I see House Martell surviving is if Aegon is the real deal and takes the Iron Throne in the end. Tell me what future you see for The Martells ruins or riches.

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Oh, I wouldn't underestimate the Sand Snakes. One of them (Sallera/Alleras) is uniquely well positioned in Old Town with the Maesters trying the get in control of the entire dragon situation again to make things go right for her family.

I could well see the Martells running the show in the end (when show refers to the game of thrones, not the battle for the dawn - that's were Dany and Jon will shine) and I think that wouldn't even be too bad for Westeros. Sure, they've always screwed up up to now, but that might well be beginners' mistakes and if at least of them comes after Doran, who seems to me unlucky but quite competent, there might still be hope. It's a learning process after all. Dany and Jon have fucked things up too. All people in this story have so far made pretty grieveous mistakes, some just seem to have had a wider margin of error - but that does not say anything about the overall level of competence any individual character has.

Right now it looks like a Arianna/Aegon marriage is in the cards and I'm pretty sure that won't be endgame, considering Dany's entire "slayer of lies"-stick. But it's quite possible that they will sit the Iron Throne at least for a while. I'm pretty sure that Aegon's conquest of Kings Landing is a done deal. He will eventually be roasted by Dany's Dragons but that doesn't have to mean that all is lost for his widow. Dany will be too busy fighting back the Others to take the Throne immediately after her defeat of Aegon and then when the battle for the dawn is fought, Dany might a.) not have surived; b.) be sick of Westeros anyway (I think that Aegon will be immensly popular and Dany will be unversally hated for having killed him, although saving the world might compensate for that. Then again, these things often get misreported, it's a tragic irony that Dany often gets bad rap for noble things she does) and c) in a very weakened position and not keen on continuing the fight, especially when the Martell's Old-Town-Connection finds a way to neutralize the dragons again. The Maesters did it once, they can probably do it again. So they might well negotiate some sort of truce.

I would quite like that, because I actually like the Dornish. Most readers are not terrible emotionally invested in them, because Martin has kept them on the sidelines for so long, but I think they are fun. Daughters who can inherit, bastards who are treated well, people in general quite comfortable with their sexuality - what's not to like? There's clearly the best society, I think the rest of Westeros could use a taste of that.

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I don't know, I can't know. It's GRRM. He's unpredictable. What I think is that both Stark and Martell have a good future. You know, Doran Martell is very very clever, so even if Dany's gone, there's still Aegon, sand snakes in the KL who could plan/start a rebellion in there. Sarella/Alleras is learning a lot. Plus they have Myrcella. There a lot of possibilities. Much and more can happen during the forthcoming novels. I like the Martells, so I hope they succeed.

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I think that they will definitely side with Aegon VI, although I'm not so sure as other people is that Arianne is going to marry him. IF Doran supports Aegon VI then he obviously believes that he is the real deal (not meaning that Aegon is actually son of Rhaegar, but what matters is what Doran thinks) so he is already blood-boud to him due to the fact that Aegon's mother is Elia Martell. So from a political point of view marrying a Martell is a "waste", because you simply strengthen an alliance that you already have. Varys and Connington will advise him to marry someone from another big family (Sansa, Margery Tyrell, etc) in order to seal an alliance with another big family of Westeros (thus creating not just a Targ-Martell alliance but a Targ-Martell/Stark/Tyrell/Tarly/Baratheon/Whatever alliance).

Their luck will of course be linked with the luck of Aegon VI, I do think that Aegon will wipe out his "southern" enemies and easily defeat Lannisters and Tyrells, but then I can't really predict what will happen once Dany reaches Westeros.

I'm still conviced that Aegon VI will be King of Westeros at the end of the series married with Sansa (in a parallel with Henry Tudor and Elizabeth of York)... The fact that he is a Blackfyre or a Targaryen is irrelevant, as I think people would believe him as a legit son of Rhaegar if he prevails and proves a good king. In this scenario the Martell will be between the prominent houses of Westeros, together with the reborn Starks and whoever will rule in the Vale and the Riverlands.

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I don't know, I can't know. It's GRRM. He's unpredictable. What I think is that both Stark and Martell have a good future. You know, Doran Martell is very very clever, so even if Dany's gone, there's still Aegon, sand snakes in the KL who could plan/start a rebellion in there. Sarella/Alleras is learning a lot. Plus they have Myrcella. There a lot of possibilities. Much and more can happen during the forthcoming novels. I like the Martells, so I hope they succeed.

I wouldnt call Doran Martell clever - smart enough to know a suicidal venture and cowardly enough not to attmept it anyways is not clever. Clever would have been to try and gather allies in the seven kingdoms instead of waiting for an idiot like viserys to come to westeros with an army. Clever would have been to side with the young wolf in the war instead of licking the Lannisters feet.

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I wouldnt call Doran Martell clever - smart enough to know a suicidal venture and cowardly enough not to attmept it anyways is not clever. Clever would have been to try and gather allies in the seven kingdoms instead of waiting for an idiot like viserys to come to westeros with an army. Clever would have been to side with the young wolf in the war instead of licking the Lannisters feet.

I think it is too early to say whether Doran's long game is clever or not, we have to see how it all plays out over the remainder of the series.

I don't see how siding with Robb, rather than APPEARING to lick the Lannisters' feet could be termed "clever".

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I wouldnt call Doran Martell clever - smart enough to know a suicidal venture and cowardly enough not to attmept it anyways is not clever. Clever would have been to try and gather allies in the seven kingdoms instead of waiting for an idiot like viserys to come to westeros with an army. Clever would have been to side with the young wolf in the war instead of licking the Lannisters feet.

When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die! Now think about it, what if he sided with Robb? Dorne would have been destroyed. Take a look at the map. Dorne is deep in the south of seven kingdoms. If he joined forces with Robb, Renly/Stannis/Tyrells/Lannisters would have destroyed them. He doesn't start a war he cannot win. Instead, he got Myrcella, a great leverage to ensure Lannisters wouldn't do anything against them in future. Just look what has happened with all these kings. If he joined forces with any of them, he would have ended up licking Lannisters' feet! Like the Tyrells. He didn't know what kind of an idiot Viserys was, but even if he was an idiot Viserys would have come to Westeros with a big army, and Dorne would have got its revenge. Plus compare the number of lords who would've have joined with a Targaryan versus the number of lords who would join with Dorne. I still think that he's clever and joining forces with Robb is stupid. Robb had a good military mind, but if he was a loser, really. I know you disagree and would hate to hear it, but the fact that he beheaded Karstark if proof enough that he's stupid. Yes, it was honorable and stuff, but honor doesn't buy you a kingdom!

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I definitely think that the Martells will side with Aegon and since I don't think that Aegon is the real deal, I think there is more suffering in store for them. They'll probably have a bittersweet ending with Dany allowing them to survive as long as they swear fealty to her or some stupid plot like that, but I don't think they'll be entirely destroyed or anything like that.

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The Martells are in a way better position than the other Great Houses, even better then House Arryn. Whatever Doran Martell has been doing it's working, his Armies are intact and he's in a good position to move wherever. I'm really interested to see where Dornes story would go.

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I think it is too early to say whether Doran's long game is clever or not, we have to see how it all plays out over the remainder of the series.

I don't see how siding with Robb, rather than APPEARING to lick the Lannisters' feet could be termed "clever".

Robb was his best chance for vengeance against the Lannisters. Though I am of the opinion that Robb would still have died at the red wedding had he married Arianne Martell instead of Jeyne westerling, Doran did not know that and why is Viserys with an army of savages a better bet than Robb with an army of northmen and rivermen and possibly even the vale??

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Robb was his best chance for vengeance against the Lannisters. Though I am of the opinion that Robb would still have died at the red wedding had he married Arianne Martell instead of Jeyne westerling, Doran did not know that and why is Viserys with an army of savages a better bet than Robb with an army of northmen and rivermen and possibly even the vale??

Just think about when the Doran sent Quentyn. It was after the wars of the five kings. I think it's more about timing. No country is more ripe for conquering than after a civil war.

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If anything happens to Tommen, Marcylla is queen. If past law is example and the male is preferred, then Stannis would be declared. The story is at the point where the current status quo is squarely hinged on Tommen's health and he is atleast 6 years or so from being able to sire children.

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I think the Martells are in a good position just by staying out of the fighting, much like the Vale. Just because Doran's moves haven't panned out doesn't mean that he isn't a clever man. If you would've known about the Dorne alliance with Viserys during AGOT it would seem like a good idea. It's easy to think a plan was ill-conceived after it has already failed

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Waaaaay to many people sell the Martells short. Doran hasn't even done anything yet. His Sand Snakes are spies everywhere now and when he declares for Aegon then the Lannisters will need to run back to the westerlands because either the Tyrells will join the Martells(never), lose to the Martells, Stormlords and Golden Company or get betrayed by the Tarlys. The Tyrells and Lannisters have literally been set up for failure by the chess masters. The Martells have given the rest of westeros the impession that they are weak and cowards...yea

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Regarding Robb, his father slew the Sword of the Morning and was completely complicit in Roberts Rebellion. Plus, Lyanna was (possibly) involved in an affair (or polygamous marriage) with Rheagar... I think Doran sees the starks as responsible for Elia's death as well.

As mentioned, siding with the Lannisters keeps them out of the war. siding with Robb wouldnt.

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I think that the Martell's will actually end up on top due to their excellent long term planning. I have some sort of a favorite ending in mind where I can see Jon Snow and Arianne on the Iron Throne, with the two off them having a daughter, who then inherits the Seven Kingdoms. <3 Not likely to happen but still.

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Regarding Robb, his father slew the Sword of the Morning and was completely complicit in Roberts Rebellion. Plus, Lyanna was (possibly) involved in an affair (or polygamous marriage) with Rheagar... I think Doran sees the starks as responsible for Elia's death as well.

As mentioned, siding with the Lannisters keeps them out of the war. siding with Robb wouldnt.

I don't think Doran views the Starks as responsible at all.

I mean Doran is an intelligent man and understands exactly who sacked Kings Landing...do you really think Ned Stark would have allowed Gregor to run loose in the Red Keep and allow Elia to be raped/killed.

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