Theon's fate

[ross1983]

This may have been discussed but I'm to lazy to really check. At the end of brans last chapter in adwd, he dreams of the blood sacrifice that we assume happened long ago. He tastes the blood as it reaches the weirwood roots. Is it possible the knowledge of the person sacrificed could also enter the weirwood as the roots absorb the blood? Kind of similar to how those who sing the song of earth go into the weirwood when they die. Is that why bran wants theon sacrificed at the weirwood? Possibly to know and understand all theon knew? If u think about it theon has lots of knowledge of the boltons inner workings. And that could be of great value to someone who s home was taken and loved ones betrayed by boltons.

[ross1983]

I know we're not sure if bran wants him sacrificed at all. Just suggesting that it may be bran and bloodravens intention.

[evita mgfs]

Bran definitely could warg Theon, but for what purpose? Why would he want to be Theon? It would be a stretch for people who hear Theon speak to believe that another “voice”, namely a Stark lord, is communicating through Theon, IMO. Bran can speak through the ravens – and maybe Bran will speak through the mouth of the heart tree! I think I would rather see talking trees than Bran in Theon. I want Bran to warg someone “cool” – or with the equipment to be someone cool, like Hodor! Bran even suggests this to Maester Luwin when he bemoans the fact that he can no longer be a knight. I think there is more foreshadowing for Bran achieving his dreams of being a knight through Hodor.

Bran and his ravens witness the wedding. So Bran knows all. He and BR have a purpose for Theon, but I do not think it is warging, per say.

Asha being burned is interesting – since in her name we have ASH-A. It would be ironic if nothing else!

[BearandMaidenFair]

I was trying to think of how Theon could cause the most trouble (because that's what he does) and I keep landing on him possibly killing Stannis. I'm not too worried about how practical this could be, I'm just interested in how it would effect Westeros

(If he's alive) Jon Snow would be trapped with Melisandre at the Wall with Others marching from the north and the Boltons marching from the south (which is unfortified). Davos would be tracking Rickon with no plan once he finds him. Plus: infinitely more flaying

[firepoet]

I'm not sure about killing Stannis, but I do like the idea of him not being mentally stable, causing something to get royally screwed up.

[WakeTheDragon]

I don't think Stannis will kill him. No idea how it will play out but I'm positive he'll live.

[ICRYRAGE]

Theon Greyjoy 1000 Commander of the Night's Watch

[Slayer of Lies]

My big problem with Theon being executed (besides being one of the most complex and interesting characters) is the big deal GRRM made out of Asha's revelation right before she abandoned Deepwood, that the Kingsmoot was...moot and Euron's crown is false. I feel like Theon still has a part to play in all that.

:agree: This. Asha's arc seems entirely too dependent upon returning to the Iron Islands - with Theon - to simply watch/let him die immediately after his escape.

Furthermore, her understanding of - and apparent - respect for godswoods and northern powers appears to increase significantly throughout The Sacrifice. Example:

“What has your southron god to do with snow?” demanded Artos Flint. His black beard was crusted with ice. “This is the wroth of the old gods come upon us. It is them we should appease.”

“Aye,” said Big Bucket Wull. “Red Rahloo means nothing here. You will only make the old gods angry. They are watching from their island.”

And later:

A raven was perched atop one [of the Peasebury corpses], pulling at the tatters of burned flesh that clung to its blackened skull. The blowing snow had covered the ashes at the base of the pyre and crept up the dead man’s leg as far as his ankle. This old gods mean to bury him, Asha thought. This was no work of theirs.

For me, the notion of Asha's increased understanding about the old gods is effectively corroborated by her interjecting the "request" in Theon I that Stannis send him to the island, especially after hearing Theon's old gods "reveal" to Asha:

"The heart tree knew my name. The old gods. Theon, I heard them whisper. There was no wind but the leaves were moving. Theon, they said. My name is Theon."

I'm more or less banking on an event significant enough to "change the course" of Theon's current imprisonment. But we'll see.

[TheDarkOne]

I see Theon on a great frozen lake, sacrificing himself in a way that will be destined to become Iron Born legend.

Perhaps he lures Roose, Ramsey, a significant vanguard, or a large portion of the Bolton host onto the lake to see it collapse under the weight.

Theon killing the Boltons and dying by drowning would be awesome.

[Miriel]

Theon Greyjoy 1000 Commander of the Night's Watch

NIce first post. I think this idea is working for me. I have gone from extreme hatred of Theon and wishing him every sort of cruel death to now feeling sorrow for him and hoping he can find some sort of redemption.

[Big Daddy Dave]

I see Theon on a great frozen lake, sacrificing himself in a way that will be destined to become Iron Born legend.

Perhaps he lures Roose, Ramsey, a significant vanguard, or a large portion of the Bolton host onto the lake to see it collapse under the weight.

Theon killing the Boltons and dying by drowning would be awesome.

That's...that's actually REALLY cool.

[Petyr Patter]

I suspect if Stannis and the North learned Bram and Rickon were still alive, Stannis would be willing to hold onto him for a bit longer. Especially if it meant a Kingsmoot could be summoned again with a chance to get the Iron Isles under this thumb. Euron would have to respond, and would have his captains return to the Islands with him. Of course, the captains would never vote for Theon over Euron unless he did something absolutely disastrous as a leader (which he might), but more likely he'd show up to end the farce and make sure his legitimacy remained strong. At which point, ambush! Maybe Stannis, maybe Aeron, maybe Asha.

Thats how I would play it out.

[Noemia]

First post.

I feel that Theon might already be fulfilling the prophecy of the Ironborn (what is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger).

Theon "died" when he lost is identity to become Reek. At Winterfell, we see him starting to embrace the power of the old gods and being slowly reborn as Theon again. After all, the Reek we knew would have never escaped with fArya, because he was too scared.

I feel that Theon will be brought in front the heart tree and confess that Bran and Rickon are still alive. It is said that nobody can lie in front of a heart tree. Then, he might fully be reborn as Theon, true heir of Iron Isles, and not be Reek, the traitor and kinslayer, anymore. He might even go after Ramsay himself, as a harder and stronger self. I could see Stannis send him to deal with Ramsay, in order to prove his loyalty. That would be pretty badass, but might be to cool to be true.

[Ser Gareth]

I don't think Theon will end up 1,000th commander of the Watch. I am not even sure the Watch is going to survive after the books. Their prophecy has almost been fulfilled and I am pretty sure that the Others will breach the Wall and get at least as far as Riverrun. But if there is a 1000th commander my money is on Dany appointing Jorah Mormont.

[JLE]

Even if Bran and Rickon are known to be alive, his crimes as the betrayer of Winterfell - and the man who set Reek free from the dungeons - would demand, at the very least, his execution, and the only way to avoid it would be by offering to take the Black and join the Night's Watch. (And that's not even counting the murder of the two actual children, the miller's wife's boys - the younger of which might even have been his own bastard, since the ages match up and he admits to having bedded her on some occasions, although Theon would have had to be maybe about 15 or 16 - not impossible.)

On the other hand: Stannis believes he knows things that could damage the Boltons' chances against him, otherwise he would have killed him immediately.

Theon will not escape Stannis's army alive unless he is wearing a black cloak: if he lives through the battle, and the battle goes against Stannis, someone will have been detailed to kill him so that he doesn't fall back into the hands of the Boltons.

But he could still save Stannis's life: if spared for long enough, he may be able to identify Ramsay, who has disguised himself successfully in the past, through any disguise he might try to use to infiltrate Stannis's camp and pull off some kind of treachery. And if he makes a final confession to the heart tree, and either the tree or the ravens start talking back, Stannis may spare him for long enough for Theon to play an important role on his behalf. (Important note: In the preview Theon chapter, Theon comments that Stannis "does not know" Ramsay - and Stannis replies that Ramsay does not know him either.)

Also. Being alive, and being the only person who could dispute Euron's claim to be true king of the Ironborn (by virtue of having not been at the kingsmoot): he is in no fit shape to actually claim the kingship of the ironborn, nor is he likely ever to be freed to take up that position: but if he proclaims himself the rightful king of the ironborn, or Asha proclaims him as such, then he can at least *die* as the ironborn king... as one of the two kings that need to die for whatever prophecy / magic Melisandre has in mind (she is hoping the Boltons will claim the title of King of the North, so Stannis can kill them both to "wake the dragon", the father first and then the son so that they both die kings, but I don't think actually claiming the Kingship is a thing the Boltons have in mind - at least, not Roose.)

Interesting thought: If Theon is the first king to die by Stannis's red sword... and I think Stannis himself, when he gets back to the Wall, will be the second, possibly to save Shireen from being burned by Melisandre as part of a magical ritual to resurrect Jon, he'll take her place in the flames and then run himself through, FIRE AND BLOOD - then that's two kings plus fire-and-blood, to wake "the dragon" - the bastard dragon, Jon the bastard son of Rhaegar...

[finger]

Bran-BR, Asha want Theon beheaded behind the weirwood, or so it seems. Strange.

1. Asha might have Theon dead rather than living this way.

2. Bran must want to have a part when killing Theon.

3. None of them has any love to Stannis (or each other.)

Those details make a grim picture. I wouldn't expect any good.

On top of that, my guess is the pink letter is their work. I wonder who did the wording. It seems Asha, using Theon account, but why should she?

[ApKing06]

I think Theon will survive Winterfell and Stannis. Asha will get him out of there and back to Pyke. I really feel like they will escape but a long shot theory is they escape but with Stannis's blessing as part of some plan to over throw Euron and bring the Iron Islands to heel once Stannis is King.

[finger]

Stannis is too righteous.

He might escape as Jon did when he was with Mance close to the Wall. Then Stannis attacked and Jon was left alone.

The Freys might attack while they're going to the island but, seriously, twice the same ruse? I'd expect something better from good old Martin.

We can't know, of course, but I'm feeling it's a good time to finish with Theon's punishment.

As for the moot, I don't think Theon claiming foul is compulsory. The fact is he was alive when the moot was called and he wasn't summoned. Damphair could invalidate it on this ground. Idon't think Euron will care, anyway. Victarion is more likely to cause him trouble.

[ApKing06]

Stannis is too righteous.

He might escape as Jon did when he was with Mance close to the Wall. Then Stannis attacked and Jon was left alone.

The Freys might attack while they're going to the island but, seriously, twice the same ruse? I'd expect something better from good old Martin.

We can't know, of course, but I'm feeling it's a good time to finish with Theon's punishment.

As for the moot, I don't think Theon claiming foul is compulsory. The fact is he was alive when the moot was called and he wasn't summoned. Damphair could invalidate it on this ground. Idon't think Euron will care, anyway. Victarion is more likely to cause him trouble.

I agree, Stannis going along with it is a stretch. Letting Theon go no matter what the gain is not in Stannis's nature. If he does, then Davos should ask for his fingers back.

I brought up the kingsmoot angle due to the conversation Asha and Botley had at Deepwood Motte just before Stannis attacked. Botley mentioned that a very old kingsmoot was overthrown and a new one held due to some lord not being present and the lords at the time were not happy with their current leadership and were happy to have a new kingsmoot. Asha kissed him and called him a genius or something to that effect. I took that to mean Asha wanted to find Theon and use him to overthrow Euron. She did not say it directly but it was implied. I dont think she holds any hopes of either her or Theon winning it and would be happy to settle for anyone but Euron.

As far as Theon being enough to hold another kingsmoot that will most likely be up to the lords and if they are happy with Eurons leadership or not. One things for sure, Damphair would be all in favor of another kingsmoot, whoever was to call it. He hates Euron. He would welcome the chance to pick a new leader.

Seems like a waste to have this conversation between Botley and Asha and not have her at least try to make off with Theon considering she has had the fortune of running into him in the middle of the North, in a snow storm, as a captive of Stannis.

[toffeejay]

First post.

I feel that Theon might already be fulfilling the prophecy of the Ironborn (what is dead may never die, but rises again harder and stronger).

Theon "died" when he lost is identity to become Reek. At Winterfell, we see him starting to embrace the power of the old gods and being slowly reborn as Theon again. After all, the Reek we knew would have never escaped with fArya, because he was too scared.

I feel that Theon will be brought in front the heart tree and confess that Bran and Rickon are still alive. It is said that nobody can lie in front of a heart tree. Then, he might fully be reborn as Theon, true heir of Iron Isles, and not be Reek, the traitor and kinslayer, anymore. He might even go after Ramsay himself, as a harder and stronger self. I could see Stannis send him to deal with Ramsay, in order to prove his loyalty. That would be pretty badass, but might be to cool to be true.

I like the idea of Theon returning to Ramsay as Reek and betraying him. Would be nice switch on Reek being sent to Moat Calin as Theon.

I agree, Stannis going along with it is a stretch. Letting Theon go no matter what the gain is not in Stannis's nature. If he does, then Davos should ask for his fingers back.

I brought up the kingsmoot angle due to the conversation Asha and Botley had at Deepwood Motte just before Stannis attacked. Botley mentioned that a very old kingsmoot was overthrown and a new one held due to some lord not being present and the lords at the time were not happy with their current leadership and were happy to have a new kingsmoot. Asha kissed him and called him a genius or something to that effect. I took that to mean Asha wanted to find Theon and use him to overthrow Euron. She did not say it directly but it was implied. I dont think she holds any hopes of either her or Theon winning it and would be happy to settle for anyone but Euron.

From what I remember the Greyjoy King died and his heir was away. His brothers didn't send word hoping one of them would be crownd instead, howerever one of the Goodbrothers entered and killed them all claiming it for himself.