[Book Spoilers] Stannis the Mannis

[Dragon of Valyria]

You know, Stannis himself admits that Robert was a stronger warrior than he... if Stannis is this insane, just imagine what Robert at the height of his strength would have been like.

[Davos55]

Just a boss all around.

[Stag's Fury]

You know, Stannis himself admits that Robert was a stronger warrior than he... if Stannis is this insane, just imagine what Robert at the height of his strength would have been like.

There's a reason that Robert can smash Rhaeger's ribs in with his hammer :P

[Honey Badger]

I don't like Stannis or Tywin as they'd both be tyrants. But honestly, Stannis as King with Tywin as Hand would probably be the most potent combination and give everyone the best chance for peace. They are both heartless badasses.

[StannisandDaeny]

It's even cooler because GRRM wrote it, 'cos now it can't be refuted it came from the writer. There is a quote from Stannis in the books where he says 'Lightbringer didn't serve me better than any other sword on the Blackwater' so yes, he did fight, if not on the battlements then certainly below as his men were retreating. I love how unfazed he was by the wildfire. "Prepare to land." -> great moment, followed by 'hundreds will die my lord!' 'Thousands.' How can you not love this guy? =)

ALL HAIL KING STANNIS

[Tony Soprano]

He was great!

When I saw the preview for the first time, I thought it was stupid to portray him as a hot-headed psycho charging along with the rest of the arrow fodder. But after seeing the episode, I realized he's a great warrior. :)

First guy up the ladder, killing a bunch of Lannisters... that was so badass.

And at the beginning of the season, I thought Stephane Dillane wasn't such a good choice for Stannis, but after watching him in " Blackwater " , I saw that I was wrong. He's a great actor, perfect for the role.

:bowdown: HAIL STANNIS! :bowdown:

[StannisandDaeny]

I never disliked Dillane, but the writing for him was sometimes a bit off earlier (not his fault) which had me worried they were gonna cast him like a typical villain. Lines like 'I cannot defeat my brother in the field' (especially how he said it) 'Clean doesn't win wars', how he sends Davos and Melisandre after Renly instead of Cortnay etc. had no real place with King Stannis, but were luckily redeemed by his speech about the Siege of Storm's End. One thing I do hope is that they will mention the Hillmen killed his scouts somewhere, 'cos that was the reason he wasn't prepared for the Lannister / Tyrell horde rather than tactical ineptitude.

[Crown]

Stephen Dillane nailed Stannis, wow, what a strong performance: 'COME WITH ME, AND TAKE THIS CITY!'

[Jamie Lannister]

Stannis was insanely badass in that battle.

[BlackTalon]

I have come to like show Stannis more than book Stannis.

[sumpthy]

yeah, Stannis was pretty heroic this episode, I was cheering him on more than anyone...

Eh, I got a bit of a villainous vibe from him, especially from the music. You'd have Stannis/Mel's evil sounding theme every time it focused on Stannis and the far more heroic sounding main theme every time the Lannisters were doing anything.

[The Monkey]

Eh, I got a bit of a villainous vibe from him, especially from the music. You'd have Stannis/Mel's evil sounding theme every time it focused on Stannis and the far more heroic sounding main theme every time the Lannisters were doing anything.

That's why this battle is so good on a narrative level. Our beloved Tyrion, Sansa, Sandor and Bronn are being attacked by the ruthless rebel Stannis. But oh wait, Joffrey and Cersei are on their side too. And Stannis may be a just man, but he deals with black magic and other amoral activities. And both sides see Robb as a traitor. There is no "good guy" here, which makes this battle much more interesting than those between Starks and Lannisters (where it's pretty obvious who the audience will root for).

[Lord Reyne]

But in the books, doesn't it mention that during the Greyjoy Rebellion, Stannis was the first one through the castle wall?

I thought I remembered that being mentioned by a character. Admittedly, that was when Robert was King and he was just a commander, but if that's Stannis's personality, it makes sense he'd try to lead the assault on the gates.

I thought Jorah Mormont was the first one to breach the walls at Pyke, cant remember where I read that

[StannisandDaeny]

It was Thoros Of Myr. It's mentioned on several occasions, even on the show. Though it could be Ser Jorah was close behind him ;)

[Gilps]

It was definitely Thoros of Myr who was first through the breach at Pyke. But Jorah Mormont was right behind him. It was for his bravery that day that Jorah was knighted.

[BlackTalon]

Yep it was mentioned in the show, when poor Jory talked to jaime while he was standing guard in front of Robert´s chambers.

[Castel]

Stephen Dillane nailed Stannis, wow, what a strong performance: 'COME WITH ME, AND TAKE THIS CITY!'

Dillane was rough in the beginning, especially his scene with Melisandre in the second episode, but he won me over today. Him folding his cloak neatly and that little shrug of his mouth when he said "Thousands" was just too badass, in the understated way I've come to expect of Stannis. I mean, the guy's an ass, but he's an impressive ass. I'm glad that all that build up and talk of him being a "feared battle commander" was actually justified.

Honestly this episode was a tug of war between Tyrion and Stannis to see whose could drag the other across the line with sheer awesomeness. I had no idea who to root for.

[The Bastard of Bolton]

Imagine if Stannis had Melisandre with him? How do you guys think the tide of battle could have been turned?

I'm quite sure he would have won, in the books as well as in the show.

It wouldn't have been an honourable victory as it would have been a result of the dark arts.

Even Varys brought this to light this episode, he wasn't worried about the fleets and all Stannis's men, he was worried about the magic.

[Dunnii]

So it seems I may be the only person on this forum who still dislikes Stannis. I don't care how badass he is. He:

1. Killed his own brother in a very creepy way.

2. Destroyed statues of gods -- ignoring that others may follow those gods.

3. He's an insane delusional man -- does he really believe he's some kind of god himself? He's as crazy as Aerys was.

He's a heartless jerk if you ask me. And no amount of going out there first in a battle is going to change that. He has NO guilt/remorse/feelings about sending "thousands" to their deaths?

He isn't any different than Joffrey who smiles when hearing the screams of men dying in the wildfire.

Call me old-fashioned, but I don't want this series to be totally amoral.

[Rockroi]

Holy water cannot help you now

A thousand armies couldn't keep me out

I said it in the main thread but as the relationships between the main characters got more and more personal; as they could not- unlike the small folk –take refuge under the shelter of ignorance, men like Tyrion and Varys, the Hound and women like Cersei were afraid. But they were afraid not of something, but of a very specific someone.

That someone had to have chops. He had to make you know that he wasn't fucking around here. That he was coming and that he would destroy everything between him and his throne. And either that works and the episode is a success or its not and its just a bunch of swordfights nobody cares about.

I don't want your money

I don't want your crowd

See I have to burn

Your kingdom down

Stannis is the rightful King of Westeroes; in both the books and the show all anyone can say to Stannis is that, well, people just don’t like him and do not “want” him as their King. But Stannis has said time and time and time again- Want has nothing to do with this. To Stannis- and the character that was forged as this season went along- he has to destroy these false Kings, false gods, false protectors, false….hoods (after all, what is a theif if not a hood?). He does not want their money or the sycophants who praise them. No. He wants his Kingdom.

Holy water cannot help you now

See I've had to burn your kingdom down

Maybe Varys said it best; the warth that Stannis is capable of is not something anyone whould ever want a part of. Varys- for reasons known and suspected- cannot have Stannis on the Throne. Because there is no force as fearsome as a truly just man. AQnd when Varys talks about sorcery and fear, that's all just window dressing- Varys is afraid because what they all deserve is coming for them. And he's the one with the burning stag on his chest.

And no rivers and no lakes, can put the fire out

I'm gonna raise the stakes; I'm gonna smoke you out

When the ships exploded, Stannis remained Stannis. He didn’t grow another personality; he did not retreat, reconsider or capitulate. No. No, no. See, Iron will break before it bends. And this fucking guy ain’t breaking.

He simply and matter-of-factly called his next play. Period.

And when a man said the fire was dangerous, what did Stannis do? Did he berate the man (like Robert probably would have)? Did he vacillate and ponder the dangers of fire (as Renly would have)? Did he mock the man who raised this concern (as Tywin would have)? Did he give the man false hope (as Robb probably would have)? Did he scream at the man for forgetting who he was (as any Greyjoy would have)? No.

He said what was true and kept moving. Simple and matter-of-fact. The Imp is out of tricks. And he was right. And they followed.

See they were there when I woke up this morning

I'll be dead before the day is done

Hundreds dead? More like Thousands. And it matters. Not. At. All. This is war and Stannis is the warlord of Westeroes. When he got to that boat he KNEW – and the show made sure that we knew –that Stannis had to get these men into those boats. He cannot do that from a hill or behind the lines. No, men- Help me Take This City! A roar.

INSTANTLY Stannis knew what had to be done- no waffling, no hesitation, no mercy, no stopping him. First one into the boat. When the men cheered him down the ropes, he had them. The show finally SHOWED us- as opposed to telling us –that Stannis Baratheon may be King, but he is the best soldier in Westeroes. And he stood on the prow of that boat (EASILY the most underrated shot), flinched his sword in the moonlight as his skiff raced ashore, and dared the world to shoot him.

And now all your love will be exorcised

And we will find you saying it's to be harmonized.

On the beach he’s a leader- get his men to the wall! Stannis is a leader and yes the VAST majority of the time Stannis would lead from the rear. But this is not those times. So Stannis adapts.

In the books, Stannis’ most underrated virtue is his ability to listen to wise counsel over and above his own prejudices and pride. Stannis can adapt. Stannis can evolve. And so he charges to the beach right into the lion's jaws. .

And he spooks a false King. The reaction from Joff, Sandor and Tyrion was perfect. Tyrion was afraid and he overcame his fears- the Hound and Joff were afraid and it consumed them. And they were afraid of this death coming at them and its leader- this implacable force blasting onto their beaches, climbing up their Walls and battering down their doors. And they fear his determination to destroy them all.

And it's an even sum

It's a melody

It's a battle cry

It's a symphony

At the Wall, Stannis knows. A man gets his head caved in a few inches from him- yes, that happens. LADDERS! FORM UP! Like it was nothing; like it was everything. Stannis commands these same men who moments ago were puking on themselves and shitting at the sight of wildfire. And now they only have one thing- this man his voice and his plan. And it works.

Again, I believed it because Stannis would do this and so much more to get his crown and toss aside these pretenders. It is believable even in the shadow of its fantasy.

They can keep me alive

'Til I tear the walls

'Til I slave your hearts

Up the latter. This is clearly unrealistic. Pretty much the first person up any wall is the first man killed. Well… not today. Stannis with a sword in his hand is a beast. Slick, hard, tough. As Doc Holliday would probably have said, No, Stannis ain’t no daisy.” He will do whatever it takes, kill who ever he has to, destroy whatever is standing before him to get this day won. Its as cold as that.

And they take your souls

And what have we done?

Can it be undone?

In the evil's heart

In the evil's soul

And it goes to Hell the only way it could have: with All the West, Highgarden, King’s Landing and many forgotten pots of Aerys Targaryen’s wildfire combining to consume his men on the Blackwater. So close- he was in the City!

As his men fall back, Stannis wasn’t spooked by some stupid armor or some fairy-tale. No. He was enraged that he had come so agonizingly close and it has to be stopped here, by the Lannisters and their bought men, by a dead King's tricks and by all the hate that the world had for him. A weak pretender sits the Throne and the rightful King has to be dragged kicking and screaming from the battlements to eat his defeat.

“… and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart’s shell upon it.” - Herman Melville, Moby Dick (p. 155, Barnes and Noble Classics edition, 1993).

That was amazing. That was what I signed up for. This Stannis was the Stannis from the books- hard and mean; tried and true; vicious and just; and scary. Oh so fucking scary. We finally saw why the world holds Stannis in such high regard, in such high esteem, in such contempt and in such almost paranoid fearfulness.

Because they know. They know they cheated death and made him storm back to his stone to brood. They know they pulled a fast one on the man everyone agrees is the most dangerous man in the land.

For. Now.

Before the day is done