What does Varys want?

[braulio09]

I just got spoiled in another thread (regarding the Targaryens), so please keep it spoler-free.

SPOILERS: Pages 600 of AGoT and beyond.

I finished reading the Eddard chapter where Varys visits him in the dungeon. Ned asks him two very important things: Can Varys get him out and who does he serve.

First, can someone explain to me why Varys cannot get Ned out without being traced? He has done a lot of sneaky things and I think he could. Is it more of a case of him not caring about Ned?

Second, and most importantly. In the show, Varys says to Ned that he serves the realm, "someone has to." When I saw that episode, I believed him. However, in the book, it seemed to me like Varys was being sarcastic, not wanting Ned to know anything. Do we learn of his allegiance later on or is he always a mystery? Does he actually serve the realm?

Varys is such a complicated character, but definitely a constant winner of the game.

[Krakenheart]

I think releasing Ned would go against his interests too much. His allegiance is discovered in aDwD but if you take hints well you might be able to figure it out earlier.

[Erkan12]

Peace i think. He doesn't like wars and violence.

[Glom]

Varys in A Game of thrones is hard to get a grip at. He seems to play his own game. If one can belive Littlefinger it seems that Varys, Littlefinger and the Queen have their own spies in the court, thta would imply that at least these three do not work for the same cause.

One clue could be that he seem to help Eddard with some hints about what Jon arryn was looking for. What do he have to gain on that? Ha also warns him about what he claims to be a murder plot for the king in the melée, and in the cell you mention in the original post he says he have spent fifteen years keeping the king alive. But of course, serving the king and hand is his job, that does not have to do with his own agenda.

[bede]

Varys is capable of getting Ned out.. untraced. He just chooses not to.

IMO, he is sincere when he states to Ned that he serves "the realm" and even implores Ned to do likewise. Thing was, it was to serve on Varys terms. Eventually, we do discover more about Varys motives/intentions, and whether or not they validate his statement to Ned in the dungeons.

[braulio09]

Varys is capable of getting Ned out.. untraced. He just chooses not to.

IMO, he is sincere when he states to Ned that he serves "the realm" and even implores Ned to do likewise. Eventually, we do discover more about Varys motives/intentions, and whether or not they validate his statement to Ned in the dungeons.

Can you explain this or will I understand in a later book? Varys had been helping Ned before, so I supposed his purposes aligned with Ned's. Is he not helping Ned anymore because he would not be useful if he was free? I mean, Ned loses all his power and his place in King's Landing when he blurts out the truth about Joffrey's conception, so if Varys gets him out, there's just nothing in it for him and it would spur a war with the North, right?

From the forums, I get the feeling that most people think of Ned as too stupid for his own good. However, I still think his "righteousness" shouldn't have cost him his life. Damn Joffrey, even Cersei wanted Ned to live.

[DirePenguin]

I think his short terms goal regarding Ned is this. A little spoiler into early book 2.

So Ned could meet Gendry on the way to the Wall

To what end, I don't know.

[bede]

Can you explain this or will I understand in a later book? Varys had been helping Ned before, so I supposed his purposes aligned with Ned's. Is he not helping Ned anymore because he would not be useful if he was free? I mean, Ned loses all his power and his place in King's Landing when he blurts out the truth about Joffrey's conception, so if Varys gets him out, there's just nothing in it for him and it would spur a war with the North, right?

From the forums, I get the feeling that most people think of Ned as too stupid for his own good. However, I still think his "righteousness" shouldn't have cost him his life. Damn Joffrey, even Cersei wanted Ned to live.

Keep in mind that all of this becomes a bit clearer the further into the series you go.

But I feel that Varys very much viewed Ned as useful, elseways, why bother visiting and counseling him in the black cells at all? One need only to catch a glimpse of Westeros in the aftermath to see why Varys (among others) stil deemed it prudent to "help" the Lord of Winterfell, even after his treason was manifest.

Yeah, I agree that Ned gets labeled as "stupid" and it is spurious. You do not get to Eddard Stark's position by being stupid. I feel that he was a bit too stubborn and intransigent at times, and thus was ill-equipped to handle or adapt to the southron politics en vouge in KL.

[braulio09]

I think his short terms goal regarding Ned is this. A little spoiler into early book 2.

So Ned could meet Gendry on the way to the Wall

To what end, I don't know.

But Ned meets Gendry in the forge. He knows he's Robert's bastard and he knows that Jon Arryn paid Gendry's apprenticeship.

I just finished AGoT today, but I dread what Robb will end up doing. I get the same feeling of dread that I got when Ned refuses Renly's help the night Robert dies.

Supporting Renly's claim was the obvious choice. Six of 7 Kingdoms uniting would have made it impossible for the Lannisters to keep it up and I think a separation of the North could've been discussed if the Lords still wanted it after Renly was king.

[K.C.]

I believe Littlefinger makes some remarks in a later book about how Ned and Jon Arryn despised the game and its players. Ned's fate despite being the consummate "good guy" and arguably main character speaks to the theme of the first book.

The second half of aSoS gives some credence to the "untraced" comment. Trying to elaborate even vaguely would go against your request for no spoilers. Suffice to say Varys is indeed motivated by serving "the realm" as he sees it, and by the time Ned is in the black cells, Varys has realized he's a hopeless cause.

[Zefsfonseca]

Varys serves the kingdom... Does not matter who is the king, he just wants peace.

[Independent George]

This is not a spoiler, as it pertains to a lack of information: Even at the end of DWD, we're still in the dark about Varys' true motivations. That's part of what makes him truly dangerous - unlike other players, it's not enough to ask what Varys has to gain. You need to ask why he even wants to gain in the first place - and we really don't know. How do you predict, and plan against someone whose motives cannot be understood?

Varys is a eunich. He can't have children, heirs, or a legacy. He is a foreigner and has no ties to Westeros. Presumably, he's gathered quite a bit of wealth over the years - enough to retire someplace in comfort. So why does he continue to risk his life playing the game? What does he get out of it that he can't get in other, safer ways?

I truly don't know. And I don't think we can know - not yet, at least. Five long books in, and I still don't understand Varys any better than I did when he was first introduced.

[bede]

This is not a spoiler, as it pertains to a lack of information: Even at the end of DWD, we're still in the dark about Varys' true motivations. That's part of what makes him truly dangerous - unlike other players, it's not enough to ask what Varys has to gain. You need to ask why he even wants to gain in the first place - and we really don't know. How do you predict, and plan against someone whose motives cannot be understood?

Varys is a eunich. He can't have children, heirs, or a legacy. He is a foreigner and has no ties to Westeros. Presumably, he's gathered quite a bit of wealth over the years - enough to retire someplace in comfort. So why does he continue to risk his life playing the game? What does he get out of it that he can't get in other, safer ways?

I truly don't know. And I don't think we can know - not yet, at least. Five long books in, and I still don't understand Varys any better than I did when he was first introduced.

I find this last line of your post telling. IMO, it is always those individuals whose plans/motivations remain nebulous that are the most dangerous. IMO, the unknown invokes fear in many instances, in large part because it may engender all types of perceived horrors (e.g. death, suffering, war, etc.) to manifest in the panicked mind. A lack of control comes into play here, from a psychological point of view. Oftentimes, when the mind can not grapple with something, panic, stress, and terror can develop.

Varys, is a character who is a true wild card; unknowable and/or uncontrollable. And that sums up why he seemingly is one of (if not the) most dangerous man in Westeros five books in

moreso than LF, whose schemes have come more into focus upon reading ASOS and AFFC

.

I am currently reading the Sword Sword novella, and I get a similar vibe from Bloodraven to the one Varys elicits from me

[AegonTargaryen]

I've always assumed that one of the people Arya overhears in the dungeons was Varys. From that conversation I've come to strongly suspect that Varys is and always has been loyal to the Targaryens, and that his end game is restoring the crown to the Targaryens. As to why he wants this I really don't know.

Minor back story related spoilers below.....(won't ruin it for anyone if interested)

I forget where I read this but I thought that the tournament at Harrenhal was organized by Rhaegar Targaryen as a front to discuss removing his father (the mad king) from the throne. However, Varys informed Aerys of Rhaegar's plans. I always thought this was quite odd, as surely Rhaegar on the throne would have secured Targaryen rule as we have every indication (from GoT and later books) that Rhaegar would have made a damn good king.

With that said I've always found it odd that Rhaegar, who was supposed to be very smart would go off to war leaving his children in the hands of his mad father. I would think that he would have contingency plans, in case the war was lost, to protect the kids.

Personal speculation below (I'm just starting aFfC, but I'll try not to allude to any spoilers)

A certain event towards the end of book 2 had me believing that Rhaegar's children would play an important role in the overall storyline, but of course that would be hard with both of them dead. After long discussions with some friends we've decided that perhaps baby Aegon is alive somehow? If this were true I'd say Varys not only knows of his existence, but has been actively hiding it, while waiting for the right time to have him restore the Targaryen line. (I don't know about everyone else but I've always had a nagging feeling that Dany and Viserys can't be the last Targaryens). This would be pretty hard though seeing as we're all but certain Elia and her children died, it could be that either Aerys or Rhaegar had an unknown bastard somewhere?

In any case, I'm of the opinion that Varys is, always has been, and always will be, loyal to the Targaryens.

[bede]

Rhaegar was heavily influenced by prophecy, so in his mind, he had little (if any) doubts about victory over the Usurper. Furthermore, leaving his wife and kids with the Mad King was seemingly an afterthought, especially when one takes into consideration the near impregnability of Maegor's Holdfast and the presence of KG. Varys, IIRC, urged Aerys NOT to open the gates to the Lannisters, which is what ultimately led to the undoing of the Targaryens.

As to Varys informing Aerys of his sons plans, it could have been a case where Varys felt his position of power was going to be in threatened by Rhaegar's ascension, and thus did what he could to keep it from coming to fruition. Speculation on my part, as I cannot recall if this has been delineated in the series or not.

[Pope Killdragon]

What Varys wants is pretty clear to me: Fire And Blood. I think he may even be a Targaryen or Targaryen bastard. His name and lack of hair are all I have to go on. Varys Targaryen. My own speculations.

[Mephesto]

My opinion of Varys is that his main and only goal is to stay alive. He does this by making everyone think he is on their side. Then when the time to choose comes, he will betray who ever isn't going to help him out the most.

In addition to merely staying alive, he wants to hold as much power as possible so his allegiences will always favor the powerful.

He is loyal to no one. He claims to serve the realm but I doubt he cares at all about the realm and the people in it.

As soon as the power shifts, so does his alliances.

[Sigrid]

My opinion of Varys is that his main and only goal is to stay alive. He does this by making everyone think he is on their side. Then when the time to choose comes, he will betray who ever isn't going to help him out the most.

I would agree with this to an extent, and yet there is still something more. There are some things that Varys does that don't seem to relate to this goal. I think he has a larger purpose, but I'm not sure what that is yet. He's not like Littlefinger who is clearly out for himself.

As someone who enjoys all the political intrigue and a good mystery, Varys is one of my favorite characters.

[Ewan]

I think he has something to hide.

[Liammarksmiff]

I think that Varys serves the realm in the same way that the Nights Watch protect it. I think that he's aware of the greater threat of the Others and is setting things in motion to stop it. Eddard Stark on the wall would be a massive help; and so would dragons in Westeros.