Redemption for Theon (TWOW Spoilers)

[purake]

I imagine Reek will die and rise again somehow as a stronger more powerful version of Theon Greyjoy (fully healed). This new Theon will fight Ramsay ultimately killing him. As for Stannis killing him, Asha will convince Stannis that the only way to get the Iron Islands on his side is to keep Theon alive. Ruining Euron's reign. If the theory about Jeyne Westerling being pregnant is true. Than Theon will make it a personal mission to protect the child since he failed the father (Robb Stark)

she was killed off in the show, that was just a loose end martin left

[Talking Hodor]

If Theon survives maybe he can become Lord Regent in the North for Rickon until he come of age.

That'll never happen. The North remembers.

[Talking Hodor]

But my Lord...I have no...um...

"foreskin" is not the end of that sentence.

Plus it's kinda hard to circumcise someone who's thrashing about, trying not to get cut.

[WexPyke]

The best Martin arcs are those with the most pain. I do not think Martin has put Theon through all this just to have him die a normal death. Jojen also had visions of Reek doing some pretty awful things like carving up the Starks faces. What does that presage?

Here is the quote:

I dreamed of the man who came today, the one they call Reek. You and your brother lay dead at his feet, and he was skinning off your faces with a long red blade.^[4] ”

- Jojen to Bran Stark

Is it conceivable he carves a face into a Weirwood, or something worse?

[newbieone]

he best Martin arcs are those with the most pain. I do not think Martin has put Theon through all this just to have him die a normal death. Jojen also had visions of Reek doing some pretty awful things like carving up the Starks faces. What does that presage?

Here is the quote:

I dreamed of the man who came today, the one they call Reek. You and your brother lay dead at his feet, and he was skinning off your faces with a long red blade.^[4] ”

- Jojen to Bran Stark

Is it conceivable he carves a face into a Weirwood, or something worse?

Theon recaptured by Ramsay and forced to kill Bran and Rickon for real?

[Reek Havoc]

The best Martin arcs are those with the most pain. I do not think Martin has put Theon through all this just to have him die a normal death. Jojen also had visions of Reek doing some pretty awful things like carving up the Starks faces. What does that presage?

Here is the quote:

I dreamed of the man who came today, the one they call Reek. You and your brother lay dead at his feet, and he was skinning off your faces with a long red blade.^[4] ”

- Jojen to Bran Stark

Is it conceivable he carves a face into a Weirwood, or something worse?

This was when Ramsay was posing as Reek. Theon hadn't become Reek yet. Jojen was referring to Ramsay.

[The_Bull]

Hey guys, just wanted to point out if no one has already that Stannis tells Asha that he needs to kill Theon out loud in the Theon sample chapter from TWOW. If there is any one rule of thumb in asoiaf, it is that plans laid out to the reader, especially with speech, never fall that way.

Theon is not done. I also anticipate his remaining time is linked with the Damphair's.

[copyrightDNA]

Theon is too complex a character to ever be "redeemed" in some kind of black and white fashion. He's certainly been adequately punished for being a dumb kid that made some bad decisions in an attempt to belong somewhere, but karma doesn't work that way in this story. Also, it doesn't matter what he does. He'll always be hated by the north no matter what. He could singlehandedly end the threat of winter and the Others and there would still be people that wanted his head. Redemption will be him doing the right things despite no one caring. I think Martin will keep him around awhile to give him that chance. I certainly don't think he's about to die as of the end of the sample chapter.

[Reek Havoc]

Theon is too complex a character to ever be "redeemed" in some kind of black and white fashion. He's certainly been adequately punished for being a dumb kid that made some bad decisions in an attempt to belong somewhere, but karma doesn't work that way in this story. Also, it doesn't matter what he does. He'll always be hated by the north no matter what. He could single handedly end the threat of winter and the Others and there would still be people that wanted his head. Redemption will be him doing the right things despite no one caring. I think Martin will keep him around awhile to give him that chance. I certainly don't think he's about to die as of the end of the sample chapter.

You're right on many points. Theon's redemption isn't about redeeming himself in the eyes of other characters, it's about reclaiming his own identity... or even just having an identity, period. It's not as though this stint as Reek was the first time he lost his identity. He's been playing various parts for years. You have to consider, he hasn't really been allowed to be himself since he was ten years old. He's been a ward / hostage that had to "be on his best behavior" (even though we know he wasn't really) all during his time and Winterfell. When he returns to Winterfell, he's not truly being himself because he's doing what he feels he has to do in order to win his father over. He no longer acts Ironborn, but he's not a true Northerner, either. Then he hits his low point -- becoming Ramsay's "Reek". Such a low point that he no longer wants to live, but in the same turn, can't bear the thought of dying as he is now. His redemption is solely based on reclaiming his dignity and becoming who he chooses to be, rather than who he's forced to be.

More likely than not, Theon will not die until he has redeemed himself in his own eyes to the point where he no longer wishes to die. Then GRRM will take him out.

[The Second To Last Dragon]

theon lives!

[Steelborn]

This is not the end for Theon, why do people always assume it is? And Jaime isn't the only one who is the redemption of the history :(

[Snow Dragon]

You guys need to read this theory regarding Theon's death. This theory works because it is the ultimate redemption for Theon.

- It's about 10 comments from the top, by Apple Martini. Read it first and then continue reading my comment because I have explained some of the reasons it could still work despite other's objections.

Objection: Theon's current stage of character development.

Theon's current stage of character development could still be on par with an imminent death. If Gollum is somehow any indication of when Theon may meet his death, it is likely right on the end of his next (final) downfall. i.e. in Lord of the Rings Gollum is Smeagol, is then taken slave by the ring (hence the name Gollum which means slave), then we see him struggle with his identity and in many ways return back to Smeagol, before he once more gives in to being the ring's slave.

Theon became Reek, and then remembered his own name. Will he become Reek right before dying again? I don't think so.

I think for Reek there a few things that round off his sad story

1) the fact that he has simply gone from one captor to another (albeit the latter is not so much a sadist)

2) he has remembered his name, but his true identity remains long lost (similarly to Gollum when he remembers Smeagol and begins once again referring to himself by that name). Theon has not only been physically disfigured - his entire psychology is still affected by Ramsay and the fear he inspires within Theon. We barely see a page go by in a Theon POV without reading at least a reference to Ramsay.

3) he will always believe the only people he ever truly belonged with, the Starks, will forever curse him (and to a great extent that's probably true)

Objection: Asha needs Theon for the kingsmoot.

No, she doesn't, and that's the point. There is a major point here that is still of significance, however Theon is only distantly involved.

Yes, the ironborn value strength above all else. Yes, Asha is one strong woman and probably deserved to be named King (or Queen). The 'strong' is not the problem - the 'woman' is. This is actually GRRM exploring the way in which a category that means nothing compared the person you are distorting an entire societies' perception of you. It is not that Asha isn't strong enough, or that her claim is too weak, it is that the society that THINKS they are valuing strength ultimately value first the male sex and second strength at that kingsmoot. Where Theon links in is that heisn't as strong as Asha - nor was he ever. However, if he were around during his Father's death the rule would likely have come to him simply because he was born male. If Asha and Theon switched sexes, she would be the ultimate ironborn leader.

There is a chance that she could, in the future, reclaim leadership, however I don't think so. The message would be stronger if she didn't. At the least, if she does, I doubt Theon will be involved - unless it is simply to reiterate the confusion of the male sex and masculinity for the ironborn.

[Lutfitasiwi]

More likely than not, Theon will not die until he has redeemed himself in his own eyes to the point where he no longer wishes to die. Then GRRM will take him out.

:agree:

[Lars Penry]

At some point, Theon will think, 'Reek, it rhymes with... speak' and say something of import. Nobody can lie before a heart tree after all.

[sj4iy]

My own thoughts are thus:

I could see Theon being executed at the weirwood and his blood sacrifice bringing Jon back, the way that Lady's execution brought back Bran.

[ivosan]

Theon wants to die.

therefore, he will live for a long time.

[Tyrion Hand of the King]

I almost feel bad for people who still hate Theon with a passion. One of my favorite aspects of GRRM's writing is that he can make me go from hating a character to sympathizing or even rooting for them. My opinions have completely flipped on both Theon and Jaime and I find myself enjoying their stories as much as any other characters now. I'm not saying everyone should forgive Theon or Jaime, but I just wonder how much less enjoyable it must be to read their chapters when all you can think is how you'll never forgive them for things they did earlier in the story. Maybe I'm wrong and those people still enjoy the chapters. All I know is that going from hating Theon in ACOK, to seeing him in the beginnning of ADWD and thinking idk if anyone deserves this kind of treatment, to finally being estatic when he made the jump with Jeyne and reclaimed his identity made his ADWD chapters some of the best in the series for me. Everyone has the right to their own opinion I just wonder if reading those chapters is as enjoyable to people who are determined to never forgive his actions.

[emptyhands]

Theon wants to die.

therefore, he will live for a long time.

I'd hate if it ended up oversimplifying things, but this approach to analyzing most plot points does make a lot of sense to me--I tend to think of the whole series as one giant tragedy, so to me at least, it seems safe to assume that the less sympathetic characters will mainly be the ones getting what they want, but even then, only at a great cost.

[Narvi]

I personally believe his redemption will come through saving the Iron born from his crazy uncle by claiming the whole kingsmoot invalid. That whole plot thread could just be a red herring. If it is a red herring then maybe heart tree food.