Redemption for Theon (TWOW Spoilers)

[Jolene Brown]

Theon's story can't end before he gets a bow in his hand. grrm conveniently left him enough fingers to properly nock and draw a bow, his back story is full of archery nonsense in the books as well as in the series. jon even remembers theon saying nothing is quite so mortal as a grey goose feather. imo, he will end ramsey with a grey goose feather, and possibly die in the act or shortly thereafter, who knows...but i see him with a bow in hand before the end.

This is an interesting idea - GRRM has generally avoided giving characters the satisfaction/catharsis of personal revenge (Jaime does not take out Vargo Hoat, Oberyn Martell causes Gregor's death but not in a very triumphant way, Tywin dies at Tyrion's hands rather than as payback for the Red Wedding) but I think for Theon to face his fear and "training" to take out Ramsay comes naturally out of the emotional arc he has created for Theon. It might be another one of those storylines like Sam killing the Other or Tyrion's defense of Kings Landing where a character accomplishes something that the reader knows is important but the actual other characters in the story don't give a crap.

[Whatisdeadmayneverdie]

I think he will live until the end. Probably won't see spring. But, if your looking at the end of the series like a game of cyvasse. I think Theon will be one of the lead bowmen. Plus with all the great hero's in the past. GRRM is setting up for a bevy of "legendary heros". One-handed knight (Jamie), Demon knight (Jorah), Maiden Knight (Brienne), Knight of Flowers (Loras, who I think will return) and of course Dany, Jon, and Tyrion will have multiple nick-names in the stories. So I think Theon being the 6-fingered bowmen a good chance. I see most of these people dieing in the final battle. But, they will take down a lot of others with them. And Sam will be there to remember it all.

[Uncat]

Nice idea comparing the heros to cyvasse.

But there is another thing: we have actually seen very few battles - mainly the Blackwater.And we have been taught, that battles don't decide wars. Yet most people seem to belive, that the books will end in a epic battle. Why is that?

[Whatisdeadmayneverdie]

Maybe not end in a epic battle. But, the epic battle will be a great way to stall the others. Your right it won't end in an epic battle. Maybe some type of speech. To much talk of a Game of Thrones for some type of politcal component to not play a huge part with the others. I always thought the idea of Tyrions mouth will be the death of him was going to play out in the last book.

[Uncat]

:agree: and so looking forward to read that last great pun or joke :D

[Whatisdeadmayneverdie]

Oh its going to be fantastic. Everyone will get chills. Maybe he'll ask the Others where whores go haha! But, going back to the idea of redemption for Theon. He along with many other characters I think will earn their "redemption". I think by the end of the novels when we look back at all the "terrible" things characters have done. It will be more understanding. Sure Theon did a terrible thing killing the orphans, but if he didn't do that things would have played out a lot differently. He set the course for him and Bran and if he didn't do his mummers farce he wouldn't be so harsh on himself and be on a path of being a better person. Plus of course it hid Bran from the rest of the world.

And if you look at it from the FM point of view. I'm sure most everyone can agree Theon gave the orphans a good quick death. He gave them the gift. If he didn't well there could be a very good chance that orphans would have had to suffer what Theon suffered at the hands of Ramsey.

I'm just excited for the "new" Theon to come out. Just the sample chapter of him and Stannis got me excited. Sure Stannis said he wanted to kill him, but who hasn't said that to Theon and he almost wants it. I just have a feeling Stannis is going to have a good ally in Theon. He gave Davos and 2nd chance and with winter coming I see him give 2nd chances to a lot of would-be criminals if they show him reason to. Most of all I want to see him and Jon Snow (once we see what happens to him of course) meet up again. The two Stark misfits (without the last name to). Just think it'd would be highly ironic if Ned Starks teachings came out best in the two people who really weren't "a part of the family".

And one last question. To anyone else. With all these mythical creatures does anyone think a kracken might show up? Maybe saving Davos. Or just when you think a fleet of "the good guys" doesnt stand a chance.

[bemused]

I want to see Theon with bow in hand as well. I imagine men who can shoot fire arrows with good aim will be fairly important against the wights , and it would be great to have someone to help Ulf train them.;) ( I know , I know, Ulf isn't alone , but still..)

I'd love to see Theon take Ramsay down with a grey goose feather, but don't know if he'll get the chance. I hope he does , but I feel he'll win at least enough redemption to be more at peace with himself, before he meets whatever end will be his.

[A Stark in Salem]

Part of me hopes for at least a sense of closure at his death, and yes he's suffered. I don't think for a second he's really capable of redeeming himself in battle anymore though.

But anyway, by his actions and choices he caused, or allowed to happen essentially the death of all remaining residents of Winterfell, it's burning and destruction, as well as the sneak attack and death of hundreds more Northmen soldiers when they were outside the gates. He was the key to the Lannister and Boolten schemes, unwitting or not.

Every step of the way he had options, the most poorly chosen to take Winterfell in the first place. But even Asha pleaded with him to go with her. The Maester gave him an out by taking the Black. Every day he had an out- until he didn't. It wasn't just the Millers family and the ones he directly killed. His choices brought on a true ocean of suffering and death to all those around him, many of whom thought of him as extended family.

[House Martell]

There's no way Theon lives very long, certainly not to rule the Iron Isles. He's the most hated man in the North (with the Freys coming in 2nd). If any Starks or their banner men are left standing Theon is a goner. He did too much to the North and the North remembers...

[Jolene Brown]

I did notice on re-reading Theon's sample chapter that when Stannis sends Massey with the Bravos banker, he specifically emphasizes that Massey needs to get archers, because they are short on them. I wonder if that will have some significance. Theon and Asha have really gone up on my list of favorite characters, which amazes me given how much I hate their uncles (do have a weird softspot for damphair though).

[little & less]

His "redemption" will come in the form of his death in front of a weirwood, which will either bring Jon Snow back to life, give Bran or the Old Gods extra power, or kill a false king.

[Ernestm]

You know what I think will happen, perfect GRRM twist and final arc for Theon, I don't see him being sacrificed at the tree, I see the tree talking to Stannis, Asha and Theon, probably telling them that Rickon lives. Instead of dying at the tree, I think as the Freys charge after Stannis onto the lake, that Theon will some how be instrumental in cracking the ice, and as the Freys sink to their death around him, Theon returns to the water and dies a Kraken and avenges house Stark, thinking as he inhales the water, "What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger."

That's how I'd like to see it. Man, almost brings a tear to my eye.

I love this :D, this would be an amazing chapter to read.

[Trinket2]

I hope there's redemption for him. He's suffered enough. I hope he marries Jeyne Poole and lives through the series. I want to see him be Theon, not Reek, and do something heroic for the realm.

And I hope that Ramsay dies a slow, painful, horrible death.

[King Bolton 1990]

The last Bran chapter in ADWD makes me think that Theon has to be sacrificed at the heart tree. In Bran's vision the last thing he sees is a man being sacrificed at the heart tree at Winterfell after the man dies Bran in the heart tree can taste the mans blood. I don't think that was just a radom thing to throw in I think it is GRRM saying that someone is going to feed a heart tree with their blood most likely Theon but maybe it has to be at Winterfell or maybe it is not suppose to be Theon but someone else Ramsey/Roose but I think a blood sacrifice will awaken a new level of Bran's powers.

[bemused]

I'm feeling something along the lines of baxter's post. Just thinking of a few vague hints that weren't apparent 'til ADWD..think way back to Arya and Jaqen in Harrenhall ; when he swears to her in the godswood that he'll kill whoever she names , he places his hand in the mouth of the face on the weirwood as he swears ( sort of like placing your hand on the Bible ) . As evidenced by his whole payback of Arya's debt to the Red God , he knows what actions are appropriate to what gods. So perhaps this hand in the mouth of the weirwood thing is requisite to formal swearing by the Old Gods. OK, that's one thing...

Next, we know it's difficult for greenseers to communicate through the trees , though Bran has been having a bit more success than BR said he could expect ( still limited, though ) ... and we know through Varamyr's prologue and Bran's chapters that it's next to impossible to warg a human unless they have a broken , or weak mind .. and Bran goes exploring using Hodor... we know Theon's mind is a shambles and he's been feeling a connection to the Old Gods.

I'm thinking if they take Theon to the weirwood and if the northmen insist on Theon's swearing to his part in the fall of Winterfell and the supposed killing of Bran and Rickon , while touching the tree , Bran could much more clearly communicate to Theon , and perhaps through Theon to Stannis et al.

ETA : I don't know what I'd hope for after that , but so much at least seems possible from what we know .

[aryagonnakill]

I'm feeling something along the lines of baxter's post. Just thinking of a few vague hints that weren't apparent 'til ADWD..think way back to Arya and Jaqen in Harrenhall ; when he swears to her in the godswood that he'll kill whoever she names , he places his hand in the mouth of the face on the weirwood as he swears ( sort of like placing your hand on the Bible ) . As evidenced by his whole payback of Arya's debt to the Red God , he knows what actions are appropriate to what gods. So perhaps this hand in the mouth of the weirwood thing is requisite to formal swearing by the Old Gods. OK, that's one thing...

Next, we know it's difficult for greenseers to communicate through the trees , though Bran has been having a bit more success than BR said he could expect ( still limited, though ) ... and we know through Varamyr's prologue and Bran's chapters that it's next to impossible to warg a human unless they have a broken , or weak mind .. and Bran goes exploring using Hodor... we know Theon's mind is a shambles and he's been feeling a connection to the Old Gods.

I'm thinking if they take Theon to the weirwood and if the northmen insist on Theon's swearing to his part in the fall of Winterfell and the supposed killing of Bran and Rickon , while touching the tree , Bran could much more clearly communicate to Theon , and perhaps through Theon to Stannis et al.

ETA : I don't know what I'd hope for after that , but so much at least seems possible from what we know .

I considered the same fact about warging humans, however I came to a different conclusion. Patchface. Patchface was introduced in the prologue of COK with a rather lengthy description of how he came into stanniss' employ. we see him again when shireen and staniss' wife (can't remember her name) reach castle black. He has thus far served no purpose whatsoever, but we've seen him several times. Now obviously there are other characters who have served no real purpose, but patchface just gets such a long introduction. And it is based off of your same ideas of needing a human to be a halfwit to warg. If jon comes back, more than likely, patchface could allow him to speak with bran, thus advancing the plot of the story by either telling him who his parents are or something about the others.

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

Two thoughts:

1) Theon will definitely play a huge role in the next books. He will redeem himself for the awful things that he allowed to happen (mostly due to incompetence, not to malice).

2) Theon will not die, but will survive. One thing that is undeniable is that he is the ultimate survivor in this series. Whether you think he is a priceless sword that has been refined by fire or just a cockroach that just knows how to scurry out of trouble is one of those "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" things.

[Florent Vixen]

I think he'll pull himself together enough to do some good things

or some good thing and die doing it.

I think the thing people are going to find the hardest to forgive

and the thing I think he finds the hardest to forgive

himself for is betraying Robb.

He didn't just betray someone who trusted him but he

betrayed the only person with the possible exception

of Asha who loved him or that he ever loved him.

His inability to forgive himself might be the thing that

keeps him from having any sort of normal life third act.

I'm all in favor of him being the one who kills Ramsay.

[Whatisdeadmayneverdie]

He saved Brans life once even if Robb said he shouldn't have. Think Bran is about to pull a big IOU in Theons upcoming chapters.

[IKE]

If Theon survives his early tWoW predicament I can see him making it to the Wall as a brother.. He useless foot would make for trouble ranging, but he could still stand the Wall, blow a horn, loose an arrow.

Would be a nice conclusion.. After all the trouble he caused in the north and his identity conflict, ending at the wall to defend the north.. Somewhat fitting.