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Oberyn poisoned Tywin


jurble

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I do like the theory. And it does seem possible, however I am not 100% sold, based on things other have pointed out in this topic. The Red Viper definitely did want Tywin dead, and had an opportunity, assuming he was able to slip something to Tywin without him seeing or noticing, but Tywin Lannister isn't exactly someone who is going to let their guard down around someone who he knows for a fact wants him dead, I don't think it can be 100% confirmed just cause it "seems possible."

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I was looking for this thread the other day and couldnt find it. I dont know if it has been mentioned. But in aDwD around page 250ish hardback Tyrion says something like "i cured my fathers constipation".

Of course on the surface it could just be tyrion making another jape about shooting tywin in the bowels and them releasing and what have you. However in typical ASOIAF fashion it could be one of those things we reread after more books have been released and notice that comment could have been forshadowing.

Even tho Tyrion couldnt/didnt know that Oberyn posioned Tywin.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I do like the theory. And it does seem possible, however I am not 100% sold, based on things other have pointed out in this topic. The Red Viper definitely did want Tywin dead, and had an opportunity, assuming he was able to slip something to Tywin without him seeing or noticing, but Tywin Lannister isn't exactly someone who is going to let their guard down around someone who he knows for a fact wants him dead, I don't think it can be 100% confirmed just cause it "seems possible."

I concur, probaly we wil never know the truth, Even if we could confirm he was poisoned there were 2 other people( Cersei and Varys) who had a motive. Cersei certianly took his death in stride, its almost like she expected it.

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That's a very good theory, and it's quite possible, but I think it's up to us to choose what we think about Tywin's death, even if Oberyn had poisoned him and he was going to die (I think Oberyn would rather give him a slow death) it was Tyrion who killed him, because he did it before the poison.

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regarding those who say that being gut shot would account for a stink that bad after one week :

Nonsense. Take it from someone who has dealt with human corpses (not in my crawlspace, mind you).

there is no gut wound that if attended to within several hours can't be cleaned up nicely by removing the innards, applying disinfectant (normal strength wine would be fine for the job, and barring that they do have "strong wine" which I would imagine is at least comparable to port) - then rub down the emptied abdominal cavity with salt and whatever preservatives you may have, the corpse will do fine for a week, regardless of the cause of death.

Unless you think Tywin's corpse was undiscovered for a few days, there is no reason to think it would smell like this, and even if it were a few days, it wouldn't continue to putrify in this fashion once eviscerated and given a good scrubbing. It is very clearly pointing to something amiss about the corpse.

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just passsed this part in SoS again and after reading this topic the first time its been in the back of my head.

just to point it out now, i think a rough timeline supports it. tywin left his chamber for long enough that he would disturb shae in leaving, waking her, and she would fall back asleep before tyrion arrived in the chamber. tywin was clearly having issues expelling his... meals.. since he was in this spot but not servicing it properly for that time period. that is until tyrion kills him, his bowels loosen, and the stink follows. which tells me he was there, unable to perform, and that something was stopping him up.

as for tyrion saying he found him where he knew he would, tyrion has shown an amazing ability to uncover little clues pointing to the culprit like who tried to kill bran, both times, who aegon really was, littlefingers boast about the tullys, and probably 100 other things i cant recall, including oberyns allusion to poisoning tywin when speaking to tyrion in his cell.

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I don't understand why a corpse that smells means he was poisoned? All corpses stink if they aren't taken care of with modern conveniences or unless they are wights. I get the constipated part. But really his corpse smelled he was posioned. Think of a corpse sitting in the sept for seven days. All that decomposition would make the smell unbearable even with the work of the silient sisters.

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I don't understand why a corpse that smells means he was poisoned? All corpses stink if they aren't taken care of with modern conveniences or unless they are wights. I get the constipated part. But really his corpse smelled he was posioned. Think of a corpse sitting in the sept for seven days. All that decomposition would make the smell unbearable even with the work of the silient sisters.

The issue seemed to be odd enough that it caused quite a stir. We know that Robert and Joffrey died and there's no mention of their bodies smelling and decomposing the way Tywin's did. I can't say with 100% certainty that it was due to poisoning, but there was definitely something weird going on with Tywin's body.

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The issue seemed to be odd enough that it caused quite a stir. We know that Robert and Joffrey died and there's no mention of their bodies smelling and decomposing the way Tywin's did. I can't say with 100% certainty that it was due to poisoning, but there was definitely something weird going on with Tywin's body.

Did they have that long-ass vigil? For that matter nothing is said about their bodies being put in public.

I want this theory to be true though, it fits and has had some thought put into it, it'd be a shame for it to go to waste. But unfortunately the only person that can verify it is a minor character who has disappeared since Oberyn died.

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Not convinced. I didnt even bother reading all the crackpot,shennagin ,trollop ,posts.

Fact

When a person is pierced through a vital organ(bladder/colon)the parts of that organ that are then exposed are very hard to contain. Hence the smell.

BLAHBLAHBLAH(but the septa cleaned him up)yeah he used Hydrogen peroxide,rubbing alcohlol and numerous other disinfectants.

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Did they have that long-ass vigil? For that matter nothing is said about their bodies being put in public.

I want this theory to be true though, it fits and has had some thought put into it, it'd be a shame for it to go to waste. But unfortunately the only person that can verify it is a minor character who has disappeared since Oberyn died.

GRRM doesn't mention their funerals at all. But being that Robert was a king I would imagine it would've been just as extravagant as Tywin's. GRRM obviously meant to relay something by writing about Tywin's services, we just don't know what.

Not convinced. I didnt even bother reading all the crackpot,shennagin ,trollop ,posts.

One question. Why are you posting on this thread?

Do you realize how ignorant you sound when you comment on something you didn't bother reading about?

Fact

When a person is pierced through a vital organ(bladder/colon)the parts of that organ that are then exposed are very hard to contain. Hence the smell.

BLAHBLAHBLAH(but the septa cleaned him up)yeah he used Hydrogen peroxide,rubbing alcohlol and numerous other disinfectants.

So turnips, in post #189, says the opposite of what you just said, except he states he has experience. Are you a medical examiner, work in a funeral home preparing bodies or some such, that we should take your statement as fact?

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Doran Martel said that he knew everything Oberyn was planning to do (they were like the grass and the snake ...). I really like the OP theory and I think it has interesting implications for Doran, that he had a plan for revenge that had already started moving. Remember that he said to his daughter that Tyrion stole their revenge or something like that.

And this could lead to another interesting idea that Varys knew all this and "led" Tyrion to his father's room in an effort to cover up Oberin's murder and keep Dorne safe and out of the war for Young Griff's arrival. (But I think this is too crackpot)

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about the possibility that the twins were fathered by Aerys on Joanna:

Yes the twins would be good

It would also mean that Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen are children born of incest by bastards...

plus it would mean that there were two Targaryen kings on the throne since Robert's hunting accident. Varys should be pleased

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