danm_999 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 These are really minor points that have little directly to do with the story, and that readers noticed years ago.So? They don't have a narrative point, and they're never confirmed as explicity true. Some hidden messages are easier to dig up than others. I realized that Cersei was gaining weight on my first reading of AFFC - it's not obscure at all.That's not what I'd call an obscure callback or foreshadowing honestly.None of these things is anything like having a secret explanation of a major character's death that nobody notices for over a decade and that is never confirmed.This doesn't explain Tywin's death; that's still Tyrion's work. This explains why his corpse stank so badly, something which, until this point, we had no answer for.This is more like Jon's parentage - if we're to believe that Oberyn poisoned Tywin, there will need to be some sort of confirmation beyond the very loose circumstantial case the OP put out there. It's a nice theory, but it's nothing unless it's confirmed.You're not going to get confirmation for everything. The narrative style won't give you that.That doesn't mean GRRM, in your words, has no incentive into putting secret plot points into the text, whether this incident is actually true or not. Of course there's a point in him doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmela28 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I love this. An additional bit of vengeance for Oberyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Paramount of Essos Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxpey Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I love this. An additional bit of vengeance for Oberyn.And Doran as well! Don't forget, Doran was the brains of the operation while Oberyn was the muscle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand11751 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I love this theory because Tywin really should have paid for the savage deaths of two kids and their innocent mother. I'm also really tired of Doran - shit or get off the pot, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breaker of Ice Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I'm sold. i gotta stop reading so fast and missing stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumpthy Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Well, Tywin has an enormous amount of time and respect for himself. He believes himself to be the only competent member of his family, has bullied and dominated everyone his entire adult life, including three kings, and has no particular time for religion or any of that foolishness. He's not going to let something minor like constipation (probably in the early stages thereof) get in the way of banging his least favourite son's lover. I mean, who does this illness think it is, anyway? Doesn't it realise this is Tywin Lannister? I'm sure this is just a misunderstanding.After reading this, I can now not help but imagine Tywin Lannister as Vince McMahon.Also, this is a great theory. I'm completely sold, I don't think GRRM puts in such details for no reason (unless he's talking about food). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Rivers Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Awesome theory, I dig it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlk7e Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 And Doran as well! Don't forget, Doran was the brains of the operation while Oberyn was the muscle.If Doran knew about it, why wouldn't he tell Arianne?Beyond that, Oberyn is plenty smart. He could've been a maester if he'd not gotten bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abradix Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I like this a lot.Oddly enough, bowel movements are discussed fairly commonly in ASOIAF.IIRC, Jaime reads some entries in the White Book about an LC whose entries always began "Lord so and so awoke at dawn and moved his bowels." The point of the entry, to me, was to show that this LC was a man of habit and discipline. He was a man who paid attention to what went into his body and took good care of his body. That was Sam reading a record of former Lord Commanders of the Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flinky Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 why wasn't Mace Tyrell poisoned as well? he was with Oberyn and Tywin yet we hear nothing of him having problems. unless he is part of the conspiracy to bring the Targs back into power with Doran. they are only lords of the reach and warden of the south because of the Targs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I love this theory because Tywin really should have paid for the savage deaths of two kids and their innocent mother.Not to mention arranging the gang-rape of his daughter-in-law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Castamere Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 why wasn't Mace Tyrell poisoned as well? he was with Oberyn and Tywin yet we hear nothing of him having problems. unless he is part of the conspiracy to bring the Targs back into power with Doran. they are only lords of the reach and warden of the south because of the Targs.Maybe the Tyrell´s are in the plot as well. We should remember that hey owe their status to Targaryen´s. Also the death of Tywin allowed them to really start usurping the Lannisters. If Margaery will out live Tommen, still a virgin and gets offered to a male Targaryen at some point, Aegon or some unknown. Im going to laugh myself silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 why wasn't Mace Tyrell poisoned as well? he was with Oberyn and Tywin yet we hear nothing of him having problems. And why would he? It's not like he and Tywin drank from one chalice. They weren't that close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lysmonger Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Damn this makes a lot of sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Maester Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 "He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was as dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood." Bran's dream from GOTHmm. Tywin Lannister lords over both the Hound and Jaime. He is the lord of Casterly Rock. He has thick black blood from Oberyn's poison as well./tinfoil hat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Penguin Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 And why would he? It's not like he and Tywin drank from one chalice. They weren't that close.Eh, they aren't really pious, they never pray.Also, would Martell break the sacred laws? I'm assuming yes. The ends justifies the means for vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What Is Dead Already Died Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Like said i was ready to flat out dismiss this but damn it is plausible. Think I might have to start a re-read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuri Targaryen Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Ok, I believe it! But that's really closed the deal to me:Was just listening to ASOS on a re-read (or listen, in this case) and during Tyrion X, right after Shae's testimony, Tyrion notes that Tywin's face is so dark that he wonders if he also "drank a cup of poisoned wine" (paraphrasing as I don't have access to the text at the moment). In any case, given GRRM's propensity for wordplay and subtlety, I thought immediately of this thread.Just food for thoughtThere are so many evidences! It couldn't be coincidence. The only thing I don't agree with is Tyrion's knowledge. It wouldn't make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Lannister Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Very solid theory; I'm a believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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