[Book Spoilers] EP 210 Discussion

[The Frostfangs]

Was that thing on the horse at the end a White Walker or a Wight? It looked quite a bit different from the White Walker that was in the series premiere...

Sorry if this has been asked before.

defo a whitewalker. The Wights were walking dead bodies with blue eyes. The Wakers rode the dead horses with shiny icey swords.

[summer_stark]

Was that thing on the horse at the end a White Walker or a Wight? It looked quite a bit different from the White Walker that was in the series premiere...

Sorry if this has been asked before.

This. I think it's "supposed to be" a white walker, just like from the pilot and early this season w/crasters son...but it's like a "recast" like someone mentioned up thread -- the part of the white walkers are now being played by skeletor zombies...it could be them w/o the clothes? they always seemed clothed. either way, i thought they were terrible. the pilot one was creepy and awesome -- this was a huge step down. not to mention the fact that we saw the same type of white walker (from the pilot) early this season -- so why change it at the end of the season? it just makes it confusing.

Edited June 4, 2012 by summer_stark

[TheRiderThatMounts]

I hate, hate, hate recasting actors. That's some bush-league daytime soap opera shit. Cue the voice-over: "The part of blah blah is now being played by blah blah." Screw that noise. I not only prefer dead to recast, I would prefer they never have been written into the show in the first place. Screw recastings. Screw them hard.

I'm just saying. If they did it for Gregor Clegane, they could have done it for Rakharo too. There was no need to remove that character from the show.

That's a Lysene description from the books. We don't know what they look like in the show. I doubt GRRM's Lorathis are all pseudo-germans, but they are in the show.

Oh. come on. The show is based on the books. I understant having a purple eyed targaryen is hard but a white dude playing the part of a pirate is easy. They just wanted to make Saan look more exotic.

Hollywood. Everybody is getting paid whatever their talent agent and/or manager negotiates for them, and nobody is taking a pay-cut so somebody else can get cast. Things like that are exceedingly rare and usually only happen when a Director/Producer wants a big, big Bruce Willis-esque star in their flick, and so they agree to the cut. GoT has a pretty big budget for a TV show, but it is not some giant inexhaustible gob of $$$.

But it does make a lot of money, doesn't it?!

What does Belwas do that's so important? He's mostly comic relief. And, for the record, some of those you named being cut wouldn't surprise me, unless they can pussy-foot around the budget issue by holding their parts of the story back until later seasons when more established (and, likely, higher-paid) actors get iced, thereby freeing-up their salaries.

He eats the poison that is meant for Daeneris :D

I hope they won't cut too many characters. I like Garlan and the sand snakes and others.

White Harbors Wrath

I think they were just careless when writing the scripts.

[The-Black-Dread]

Where is Ghost??? JS v QH was still good tho

[joaobenin]

just a little question, what exactly in this episode gave people the idea that khal drogo is returning? I just don't see it

[joaobenin]

THERE WAS NO WHITE WALKER ON THE PILOT

Up to this point, we only saw whights in the show.

[Ser Wun Wun]

THERE WAS NO WHITE WALKER ON THE PILOT

Up to this point, we only saw whights in the show.

There was definitely a White Walker in the premiere episode. It cuts off that guys head...

[Jons Now]

THERE WAS NO WHITE WALKER ON THE PILOT

Up to this point, we only saw whights in the show.

There have been white walkers in two instances of the show up to this point. The little girl was established as the wight in the pilot and the other was the sword wielding monster that cut off the rangers head and flung it. Unless a wight (which have been characterized in the show as a bit more single minded) was trying to make a point about impending doom. as it were that scene was a divergence from GoT as waymar never fights an other, an other not appearing in that scene would have been confusing for the viewers as they were mentioned more times than they have appeared (In S1). Second time was during crasters offering in S2 although they were a bit shadowy.

[joaobenin]

There was definitely a White Walker in the premiere episode. It cuts off that guys head...

white walkers and whights are NOT the same thing. White Walkers are a race, who has the power to reanimate corpses, using them like puppets, in a way. Those corpses are just zombified people, called wights, and it's wights we saw on the pilot, not white walkers.

I thought anyone in this topic would've read the books.

[salt]

I feel like I need to somehow burn the White Walker scene out of my brain. That was some painfully bad television.

[Puck the Goat]

I know people wanted to see Reek, etc etc. They simply were not cast.

You need to figure in the logistics of casting and contracts before you can have someone in the show.

[Lord of the Night]

My thoughts on the Game of Thrones finale, Valar Morghulis (Awesome title).

Arya and Jaqen:

Its no secret that I have disliked Arya's story immensely this season for altering everything that makes it compelling and for removing Roose Bolton and the Bloody Mummers. Her final scene with Jaqen was great but doesn't make up for the poor handling of her story. Her actress is great and I have no doubt she would have pulled off the true story greatly, but now we'll never know. That said Jaqen's face change was awesome.

Jon and Qhorin/Sam and the Army:

Decent enough I suppose, though the show does not have the deeper relationship between Jon and Qhorin and frankly I found it a bit dull. Sam and the Army of the Dead was much more entertaining, even if its completely new, hard to believe that they wouldn't just gut him and the White Walkers look nothing like they do in the books.

Daenerys:

Boring and terrible. The entire Qarth storyline was mangled by Pyat Pree and Xaro's coup, the theft of the dragons and the House of the Undying scene was completely ruined and crappy compared to the books. Where the hell was the hallucination of Aerys, of Rhaegar and the Song of Ice and Fire, the visions of the future and past and the three prophecies. Just plain awful and I dearly hope that they get Daenerys back on track for Season 3 which is her best storyline.

Tyrion:

As usual Peter Dinklage is the king of the show and nails everything, I sometimes think his scenes get more attention from the writers and producers than the others do. No complaints, only praise.

Stannis:

Stannis this season was a mixed bag. I do like his actor but he needs to find that core of iron that Stannis has in the books, the man who will break before he bends and he should put a more commanding tone in his voice.

Theon and Winterfell:

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?! DAGMER CLEFTJAW BURNS WINTERFELL? NO NO NO NO NO! RAMSAY BOLTON BURNS WINTERFELL AND ENSLAVES ITS WOMEN! I do not know what the hell made them think Ramsay Bolton is a superfluous character this season because he isn't! He is critical and because of that the entire Winterfell plot with Theon lacked tension, the true character study of Theon as he listens more and more to "Reek" and the final climactic scene when Ramsay burns Winterfell and takes him hostage was epic in the books and now we don't get to see it, yet another awesome scene taken away.

Robb and Talisa:

I do not like the Talisa changes. I do not think that Jeyne Westerling and Tywin Lannister's plot with her mother to ruin Robb is too complex for audiences, I think that it is patronizing to think that we cannot understand the Lannister's prime general setting up a meeting between a young enemy king and a beautiful woman, which can only end in one way really.

On the whole a very mixed finale to a mixed season. I really hope they get on the ball, the ASOIAF ball, for Season 3 and do not change anything further. Too many changes are already in play and I like none of them.

LotN

[DirePenguin]

I found it a bit odd that Dany would turn the key the same way for both locking and unlocking. Anything mentioned about that in the book?

[Puck the Goat]

The Others were great. I think we're going to see some similarities between the Others and the Children.

Goes back to my theory they are of the same race, but the Others diverted somehow.

[Valdred Dethstorm]

There WAS a White Walker in the first season premiere.

Same design: http://images.wikia.com/gameofthrones/images/c/cb/White_Walker.jpg

It didn't have a nose, though. The nose ruined it for me. Looks like a malnourished caveman...or even Sentinel Prime.

Man, did this episode suck as hell. The storylines of Daenerys and Jon are absolute trainwrecks, really shitty.

I was happy with most changes thus far, until yesterday's episode. Oh well...

[KnightsOfDany]

So, by the Seven that was amazing,

Dany i think forged her new identity hear, no longer a pushover whiny baby but the, Strong (and Volatile) Leader much like her more respectable Kin. Although the HoU trippy scenes where not the same i liked the effect they held. and Hot damn locking Double X, D in the vault for betraying her, very Targaryan.

On a side note when they woke XXD up and they are all standing there, reminded me of the end of the Avengers, when Loki wants that Drink, if you know what i mean.

As i expected they would bleed book 3 into this season, the Kingslanding, Robb, Brienne/Jamie stuff was meh but maybe that's because i knew what would come ahead.

I did like the Jon stuff but in truth i know the inner battle he faced in that situation. The non book audience probably thinks hes a turn-cloak, but we all know the whole while hes with Mance he is plotting a stab and run.

As for the ending i though it was chilling pan out, as for the comments why The Other passed on Sam, let us not forget the pilot when the Walker let the one Nights Watch guy go alive. Maybe its a running theme with them to let one live to spread the fear who knows.

Worst part about this finale...... we have to wait to season 3.

[Talleyrand]

white walkers and whights are NOT the same thing. White Walkers are a race, who has the power to reanimate corpses, using them like puppets, in a way. Those corpses are just zombified people, called wights, and it's wights we saw on the pilot, not white walkers.

I thought anyone in this topic would've read the books.

The thing in the pilot that killed the Gared and Royce was an Other/White Walker. It had an ice sword and spoke the same as they do in the novel.

[AegonTheUnlikely]

Let me start off by being contrary: I loved this episode. Further, I loved this season. (finished my 3rd read of the series before the season started, fwiw). I think it was a solid season, and worked well by-and-large. Some changes I wasn't wild about, others I thought were nice ways to cut through some of the density of the story. I know! The density is part of what makes the story so good. It's true, but dense doesn't work so well visually. How many people sat through all 8 (or however many) hours of Gods & Generals? I watched a bit, well done it seemed. But dense.

For instance, I know there are issues taken with Arya's story line. This was a set of changes I think worked. To be honest, the first time I read Clash, the change in ownership of Harrenhal confused the hell out of me. It would have been worse on screen. More, without Roose or any of the other activity in the Riverlands, and no Bloody Mummers, key elements to that plot are missing. We couldn't get the Mummers, or the Tullys and the Riverlands stuff probably because 1) they already had to introduce Stannis et al, the Tyrells, Greyjoys, etc., and 2) they spent all the money on Blackwater. Thus, I think the changes made to Arya's storyline were a good way to getting people where they need to be, in a fashion consistent with the tone of the story, with some good bits to keep it entertaining along the way (Why didn't she name Tywin!? Because she's a kid, and kids make poor decisions some times). The other option would have been some seriously compromised version of the book's change of ownership/weasel soup plot.

Dany's plot worked less well, in my opinion. I don't really care that the 13 is essentially an amalgam of the various Qartheen factions (actually, I thought that to be a rater clever simplification). The stolen dragon plot annoyed me a bit, beause of how Dany reacts. I rather enjoyed the HotU, though. I thought it worked. You weren't ever going to get the visions she had in the book. As others have said, they are very literal moments of foreshadowing. Seeing a corpse with a wolf head sitting on a throne would give away the game, re: Robb Stark. Likewise, with no Lyanna backstory and really no established basis for the various prophecies, the blue flower and Rhaegar/Elia scenes wouldn't make much sense. They wouldn't be giving the viewer any important information, they would be creating questions. Look for the prophecy to be delivered another way- by Quaithe most likely, imo.

I actually can't help but chuckle at many of the complaints about this season/episode. No offense meant towards those voicing the opinions, and to be fair there are a number of legitimate criticisms of the show. I liked the Other. I thought he looked like he was made of ice. The army of wights was pretty imposing, also (particularly when the camera does the final pull-back). To those complaining it was "like the walking dead" - how else did you think an army of clumsy, brainless, reanimated corpses was going to come across?

[legba11]

Ugh, the forums ate my initial reactions:

8/10 Great episode with a few flaws.

Kings Landing: The throne room and Tyrion scenes were excellent, minus the horse crap "HBO Moment", do we really need cheap tricks? The Ros/Varys (not a ros hater here) scene was really unnecessary in an episode where almost everything was rushed.

Robb/Catelyn was both unnecessary AND rushed (hard to do). Either have the scene or don't have it, it makes you wonder why we needed 73 meaningless stories about Robb and Not-Jeyne's childhoods and couldn't find time for this scene to be done properly. I did enjoy the fake out marriage, I can't imagine the Purist heads exploding when people thought it was Tyrion and Shae.

Arya: Very nice finale for Jaquen. I don't understand leaving out her cold-blooded murder, as I see that as her point of no return.

Winterfell: Perfect in every way. I love the mysterious destruction of Winterfell. I had hopes that Luwin would survive, as watching he and Osha argue over Bran's path would make the upcoming seasons of his pointless stories more fun to watch. (yes I know that isn't a popular opinion, but I find Bran to be a pointless character after book 2, I am hoping Martin makes me care about his chapters again, this isn't to say that they are all bad, his conflict with Jon and Team Wildling was excellent)

Stannis: A nice conclusion, but I felt cheated not getting a quick glimpse into the fire. Is Davos really dead? I would have thought they would have mentioned him in some way if they were making it a cliffhanger.

Jon: What they had was excellent, but this scene needed twice the time to play out. I'm sure glad we had Ros grabbing Vary's crotch and a horse taking a shit instead of more time here. I like that they didn't beat you over the head with Quorin's ploy. Is there some character missing here? Someone furry? I can't remember...

Jon's Merry Men: I loved this conclusion. In a season where the "twist" is the only important character to die was Renly mid-season (what were the Vegas odds on EVERYONE surviving Blackwater? except maybe Davos, who is second tier in the show).

[hal9000]

So... just Dany and Ser Jorah now. God help us all next season