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[Book Spoilers] EP 210 Discussion

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Disappointed with the Undying Scenes. No Undying, one vision... I hoped that it would compensate for the weasel soup and many other small things that I loved in ACOK...

Loved Theon's parts, I was chuckling all the time. So pumped with his speech and then ...bang.

Jon Snow's fight with Qhorin was good too and Jaqen's new face was kind of creepy.

The Other is fantastic. Too zombie-like perhaps but gods, that spear was nice and the blizzard preceding their advance.

Robb: how can you fuck yourself like that. And Talisa/Jeyne, you'll have more blood than you care for in your hands.

Tyrion is wonderful as always. It's despicable how they used him and discarded him like that. Fuck.

Edit: I forgot Stannis and Mel's scene. Stan was so desperate, hahaha, he was on the verge of crying and that would have been too much. "Where is the lord of light? Can he protect you there? I killed my brother..." I wonder what he sees, did Mel put some powder into that fire? Stannis is not the kind of guy who pretends when he doesn't see anything.

Edited by LordBloodraven

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At first I was upset about the House of the Undying and how much was left out. But after a lot of thought, it totally makes sense. Why? Because for a casual viewer it will make no sense and not be remembered at all. For book readers, we can fill it in with our imaginations. It would have been confusing and ultimately served no purpose other than as a bone to us book fans. Made the episode work much better. A lot of things we'd like to see would probably make the show not work as well.

Theon's scene with his speech was amazing. Sure there will be some grumbling about no Reek, etc. But ultimately this show has so many characters that it isn't worth adding him in when the upcoming stuff can easily be rewritten and make sense without him.

Loved the dragon's fire, love Brienne fighting the Stark men and Jaime's reaction to her skills. Though that the end was great with the three blasts. Really liked how the Others looked.

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Definitely a little disappointed with the House of the Undying, the visions Dany had in the books were a lot cooler (did love how they were able to bring Drogo back though).A little disappointed as well that we were unable to see more of the destruction of Winterfell and/or Ramsay Bolton. It would have definitely been cool to see the destruction of Winterfell from the viewpoint of Summer like in the books. I was definitely excited to see how Jaqen H'ghar was going to change his face. The last scene was definitely how I wanted the season end... very suspenseful and makes me want season 3 to come soon. Definitely a solid episode to cap off a great season.

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It seemed like a perfect opportunity to drop an AA reference in Stannis and Melisandre's scene. I'm really confused about why they continually avoid any prophecy mentions.

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The House of the Undying was a bit of a let down but I did enjoy the scene with Drogo and Rhaego. Very sad. I also enjoyed how they got the ominous feeling down right. Even the vision of the Red Keep in ruins was good. But lacking the other visions was disappointing. Some book scenes just cannot be translated onto the screen and this was one of them. It still got the point across though. I loved how they allowed Dany to be badass in the end and lock Xaro and Doreah in the vault. Yay Khaleesi!!!

I'm glad they kept the little touch of Tywin's horse pooping in the throne room. Nice!

I'm not a big crier...at all. But I must admit I got teary eyed when Tyrion started bawling. I really, truly do love this character and Peter Dinklage really is a revelation in the role.

The end scene with the Others and their armies of the undead was FANTASTIC and made up for the disappointing HotU scene. Loved how the ended last scene with Fire and now they end this one with Ice.

April 2013 cannot come soon enough!

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Ugh. I'm torn. The HotU was a major disappointment--it's not to say what they did wasn't good--but those visions were pretty darned important. They justified the whole Qarth excursion, which was otherwise pointless (and seems pointless now). yeah the dracarys was cool and the snow-covered throne-room is interesting, but... blah.

Theon cointinues to be an idiot.

Talisa and Robb... well.

Tyrion and Shae... welll.

The Margaery farce was entertaining (there were several laugh out loud moments in my viewing party) and it was enjoyable to see the palpable pleasure on Sansa's face, if only for a moment.

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Highlights for me - the tenderness of the scene between Shae and Tyrion. It will make eventual betrayal much worse, if it happens? Some doubts, there are so many changes.

Stannis trying to choke Mel, Stannis' disappointment, Mel's words of encouragement.

A well done change of face for Jaqen. Arya got the coin.

Again, as mentioned, Luwin with Rickon and Bran and Osha. "i pulled you into the world, both of you....and for that I consider myself lucky."

Jaime to Brienne - you'd love to feel what it's like to be a woman. FU Jaime Lannister, lol!

Disappointments - So many Sandor lines to LF, the all liars are better than you line.

The House of the Undying, what was there was good, but there wasn't enough.

The whole Robb and Talisa story line.

Tywin's horse should have dropped his load in front of the iron throne, shit delivered to a shit. Why do it in the entryway?

The episode was strong, but could have been stronger. A letdown from BWB, but that's not a surprise.

Edited by Fragile Bird

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Only 10 replies half an hour after the season finale ends... Hm, Blackwater had at least 10 pages by this point last week.

If people had similar experiences as me, it is likely due to the site being down until just recently. There was so much traffic no one could post.

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HOTU scenes were mishandled. No Robb at the RW? No Rhaegar and TPTWP? This was probably Dany's best chapter and since I find her pretty boring, this was one of the few things I was looking forward to from her story arc. Disappointed

Robb gets married in the light of the seven? Why? If I'm not mistaken he worships the Old Gods like his father did.

The scene with the Others felt weird. I don't know how to explain it, but it didn't feel right. I thought they only came when it was dark? The Others weren't as I pictured them, nor as they were portrayed in the epilogue in season 1.

The rest of the episode was pretty enjoyable. Although, I thought that Loras was going to be named to the Kingsguard during his scene. I guess that can happen later. Also, what is Varys planning with Ros? Interesting.

Edited by Big Noyd

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Only 10 replies half an hour after the season finale ends... Hm, Blackwater had at least 10 pages by this point last week.

The website has been down for most of the day. Too much traffic. I've only been able to log on just now.

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Daenerys' "Dracarys" moment was really weak. Other than that, the changes were significant but probably necessary in order to make the story more soap-opera-like. Which it must be, I have come to realize; tv and books are simply too unlike to allow a more faithful adaptation.

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I already know book fans are going to be all up in arms but I thought this was a great episode.

Yes, I too was disappointed in the HotU scene. I think even if they couldn't include the visions as they were (too much given away in a visual medium), I think they at least should have had the prophecies. They stick with her through the rest of the series so I don't know why they didn't have it included. Visually gorgeous though. I also think if R+L=J and we get that far in the series, there aren't nearly enough clues in the show for that to make sense for show fans (Unsullied notwithstanding since they really study every scene).

How people can be complaining about the end scene astounds me. I thought it was perfect! Just because the WW didn't try and kill Sam in that exact moment doesn't mean that he just walked by him and let him go. I'm sure they'll do the dragonglass attack at the very beginning of the season next year.

I'm not even going to get into the whole Robb/Cat/Talisa thing because that's probably the one thing I'm annoyed that they changed so much.

Overall though, I think it served very well as a finale.

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HOTU scenes were mishandled. No Robb at the RW? No Rhaegar and TPTWP? This was probably Dany's best chapter and since I find her pretty boring, this was one of the few things I was looking forward to from her story arc. Disappointed

Robb gets married in the light of the seven? Why? If I'm not mistaken he worships the Old Gods like his father did.

The scene with the Others felt weird. I don't know how to explain it, but it didn't feel right. I thought they only came when it was dark? The Others weren't as I pictured them, nor as they were portrayed in the epilogue in season 1.

The rest of the episode was pretty enjoyable. Although, I thought that Lora's was going to be named to the Kingsguard during his scene. I guess that can happen later. Also, what is Varys planning with Ros? Interesting.

I feel yea on the last scene with the Other man. Totally lame. I mean, the white walker on the horse looked cool but he just stared at Sam, and then moved on...stupid. Sam would have been dead right then and there. The wights with the white walkers just looked like something out of The Walking Dead. Also, you are right, the White Walkers only come at night. Mance Rayder says so in ASOS.

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The show has certainly lost its magic in the second half of the season, excepting Blackwater. It's like they stopped trying.

But, I'm optimistic about season 3 and ACoK is my least favorite, so I don't mind too much.

They'll have more screentime for ASoS as it's spread over 2 seasons. They'll have a higher budget, and they won't need to blow it all on a single episode (Blackwater was a curse IMO, I liked it but I wouldn't have missed it too much if it meant higher production value for the other nine episodes). And they'll hopefully have learnt from their experience and mistakes with season 2.

So... another 10 month wait huh!

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Disappointed with the House of the Undying. I can see why they sort of skimped out on it, but "his is a song of ice and fire and he will be the prince that was promised" is so important to the entire series. Kind of confused with the Other seeing Sam and then looking away, also I thought Others only attack at night? The Winterfell scenes were good, the last Theon scene was needlessly humourous but I can understand why they did that since Ramsay hasn't been cast yet. Was disappointed that Luwin didn't mention that it was Ramsay who sacked Winterfell. I guess we will have to give up on Talisa being Jeyne Westerling, it would have been better if she finally revealed herself to be Jeyne. Shae has really turned around in the last few episodes, now I'm not sure if she's going to ultimately betray Tyrion in the end, the devotion seems genuinely heartfelt. I hope they flush out Cersei's truly nasty and vile character next season, Joffrey took too much of the heat. Other than that I enjoyed the season and I'm looking forward to next season and more SOIAF material coming out in the near future.

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Oh dear. House of The Undying. Kind of anticlimactic. I liked the Khal Drogo part but we could have done with a couple more visions.

I agree. The House of the Undying was the biggest disappointment in this episode. I wanted some visions of the past, some Rhaegar and Elia, and, most importantly, the prophecies. Without them Dany's story lacks a lot.

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I'm sorry but that ending was weak. The White Walkers just look at same and move on? I don't think so. And I felt like I was watching The Walking Dead.

Also, the house of the undying sucked. Sure the little scene of her in the throne room was nice, and her seeing Khal was touching for non book readers I'm sure. But other than that it left out huge prophecies for Dany. Three times you will be betrayed? The dragon has three heads?

And we waited 9 episodes to see what was behind this mysterious XXD vault...and there was nothing? Pointless. Oh, and Danys handmaiden was sleeping with Xaro? Wtf

Jon's slaying of Qhorin was not setup properly in the show. There was no reason for him to completely kill Qhorin in the eyes of a non book reader. It just looked sloppy. Rattleshirt telling Jon to slay Qhorin to prove himself makes sense.

What Robb did was stupid. I mean, I understand what he did by how was explained in the books. But now it's all about passion can make you look like a fool and it's all his fault. I want RW now!

Yeah, Robb and her mother never learned that Bran and Rickon were dead. Both their desicions where pretty dumb without their true reason.

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I loved it.

I was worried that they would try to half-ass the House of the Undying due to budget issues. I thought this was an even better way to do it subtly without having confusing or poorly done prophesy. Plus, the people who are into prophecy are the ones who read the books anyway. AND- I could never complain when Khal Drogo made an appearance!

I thought all the story lines wrapped up nicely. I cannot wait to see the dynamics between Joffrey and Margery with those actors next season! I I did get so sad when Luwin died. I had hoped that he was going to get a reprieve.

And finally- that last scene was amazing. Not sure about the Sam just sitting there issue but otherwise it was fantastic and terrifying. I guess I didn't realize until seeing it on screen that the wights are basically zombies, which is even more awesome. White Walkers scared the hell out of me.

Can't wait till next season!

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