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[Book Spoilers] EP 210 Discussion

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I think you mean the wights, there were two white walkers on horseback. The wights were described as slow and clumsy in the books and they are essentially zombies so how else are they supposed to act :P??

What do you make of how the White Walkers in Episode 1, Season 1 looked so different from those in Episode 10, Season 2?

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I'm very confused by a lot of the choices that were made plot-wise this season that culminated with this episode. There were several things (Jon's storyline especially) that I was expecting would get back on track once they set up for that to happen, but it seems like they got a lot of characters where they needed to be to follow their actual plots, and then went ahead and deviated anyway.

I can understand when changes are made for time or clarity or budget reasons, but I think there were some decisions made this season that could set up some very drastic changes later on.

As far as the House of the Undying, it was something I knew wouldn't be exactly the same, and I thought the temptations/visions they did give were good, and made sense in the context of the show, but I wish they'd given a little more exposition, and they really could have just put those things through open doors and kept the instructions from Pyat Pree about the door on the right, etc. He could have spoken to her without appearing physically until later.

Aside from that and the lack of Qhorin/Jon interaction, I'm also quite upset that Irri was killed off this season - I thought they had just decided to keep Doreah instead, but if she's dead now, it feels like Irri was killed arbitrarily, and it's a real shame, because Amrita Acharia was really excellent.

I liked the Brienne/Jaime scene, even just as a brief check-in before the end of the season. I hope Jaime will start to call her "wench" next season! Sophie Turner did a great job reacting to Joffrey breaking the betrothal, I'm really impressed with all of her performances this season. Seeing all the white walkers on their way to the fist was great too, although I don't know how Sam is going to magically survive being completely surrounded like that (Sam the Very Prolific Slayer?)

Overall, I'm left with a disappointed feeling, although maybe on a second viewing I can appreciate it more.

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I think they'll end up working the prophecies into Quaithe's storyline very early next season. I don't see Dany being able to go forward with much direction without them, and since the House of the Undying was such a blow, they might use her ... except she's never really interacted with Dany, so who knows.

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Just got done with the second watcnh of the finale, gotta say that overall, I really liked this ep. Like alot of people, I was initially let down by HOTU, but the more I think about it, the more I like what they did. The Iron throne room scene was very cool and awfully foreboding. The Drogo comeback was a nice touch, kind of cool to see the mental prison being built by the warlocks to trap Dany. Although, iwas kind of looking forward to seeing how they could pull off the floating heart and vampire-ghost-mummies on the screen. Seeing the dragons cut loose and torch Pyat and his clones was sweeeeeeet. Cant wait to see them little cuties toasting Astapor. Bring on the Unsullied!

The John and Qhorin fight could have been set up better, at least they could have had Qhorin ordering him to do whatever was asked of him to set up the emotional conflict JOhn fights in SoS, but it was a good brawl between two good swordsmen, fun to watch if nothing else.

REally liked the Luwin and Theon convo, really sad about Luwin getting shive, even though I was ready for it. How funny was Theons hate for the hornblower? A bronze statue, awesome. Wish they could have shown what happened with the bastard sacking Winterfell though, my gf who has not read the books was just confused as shit as to why Winterfell was torched after Dagmer and co sold out Theon.

Jaqen Haqar is the man. That is all.

Loved the ending. THe walkers and the wights coming out of the snow and marching on the fist was a hell of a way to end the season. Was a little weird for Sammy to get ignored by them all, but I guess the director wanted to be able to show a human point of view seeing the walkers stomping in. I thought it conveyed a great sense of impending doom, not just for the Watch, but for all of Westeros. With all the political shenanigans its easy to forget the real threat thats out there.

the only thing Im really disappointed with is the no-show of Arstan the Bold and Strong Belwas. THought they might pop up after Dany locked up Daxos, but oh well. Ill just have to wait for next season.

...and what a long wait its going to be. Bloody Mummers, salve revolts, two epic weddings, Coldhands, Mag the mighty, it cant come fast enough.

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Just how much they showed of the wights and the Other was shocking, but they made Sam too much of a craven.

Eh? It's Sam. Cowardice is his self-identified defining trait (through, frankly, anyone in his situation would be shitting themselves).

On the Other seemingly spotting Sam and letting him be: they let what's-his-name in the prologue escape. Perhaps the Others want to let some live to spread the word or just enjoy messing with people's minds like a cat playing with a mouse.

Edited by Roose Bolton's Pet Leech

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A few thoughts as I rewatch tonight's finale. Apologies if a hundred people have touched on these before me, but the board won't stay up long enough for me to post these in real-time; I'll be copy/pasting later.

- Pycelle was deliciously satisfied with Tyrion's downfall.

- Loved Sansa's reaction to being "set aside."

- Littlefinger being awfully open about helping Sansa; why was Dontos introduced at all, I wonder?

- Loving Brienne! She straight f'd that dude up!

- Dillane is wickedly intense as Stannis.

- Alfie Allen deserves an Emmy! Him being so intense, while simultaneously bitching about the horn-blower was hilarious and a very nice touch, I thought. Allen's portrayal has actually manges to humanize Theon-freaking-Greyjoy for me.

- No knighthood for Ser Bronn of the Blackwater?

- Bran riding in the Westerosi equivalent of a grocery cart... Har! :)

- The HotU was sufficiently weird for my tastes. I loved the sequence of how Dany entered. I imagine many people are freaking about the different visions and no mention of the 3 prophecies, but I wasn't expecting much, so I'm not disappointed. Seeing Drogo and the ruined throne room was cool, tying the wall in was a nice touch, and there will be plenty of time to introduce the prophecies later (by Quaithe, maybe?). Far too early for Rhaegar visions and such explicit foreshadowing of the RW, in my opinion.

- A Man changes his face and sufficiently lays the groundwork for A Girl's future storyline. Good.

- Jon killing QH was a little off. I think it would have benefited from one more snippet of a conversation with QH being clear about his orders. True, there was the previous interaction with QH talking about Jon being able to do what he must when the time comes; I just hope it wasn't lost on casual viewers.

- RIP my beautiful Doreah. Sigh. Closing them up in the vault and pillaging Xaro's whiz-nit was a cool ending for Dany.

- 3 blasts and that Other was awesome. I was a bit surprised we didn't see any Sam the Slayer action, but only because some comments in a recent interview with the actor who plays him made it seem that way.

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I gotta say, I am hugely disappointed about a handful of things

1. The way they handled Jon Snow's betrayal of Quhorin Halfhand was AWFUL. Jon was originally written as a noble figure, a "good guy" who only betrayed his sworn brethren because he was ordered to as a selfless act on Quhorin's behalf. In the show he got butthurt because Quhorin talked smack about his mom, so he stabbed him in the heart, killing him instantly... COOL.

2. Sure, they recast Xaro Xohan Daxos as a "bad guy" but come on! Even a "bad guy" won't build the most indestructible safe in the world to protect... absolutely nothing! I mean they could have just as easily rewritten that scene so Dany and her retinue loots Xaro's safe to get their money. Instead they were like "well herp derp, Xaro built this safe for no comprehensible reason whatsoever, oh well, let's steal everything from Qarth, because it's not like there' any guardsmen around" It's b.s. Just because the creepy magician and Xaro are dead doesn't mean the entire force of city guard in Qarth disappeared in a matter of hours... it's absurd to suggest her 50 something troop could loot the entire palace without any contest at all.

3. The sacking of Winterfell... Who sacked the city? In the books it was Ramsey, in the show.... well, who knows! I think Maester Luwin should have at least said something about Ramsey. I understand due to casting issues we probably wouldn't see Ramsey this season, because why would HBO want to get an actor on retainer for such a long period of time, but it's free for HBO to mention him. All it would have taked is for Maester Luwin to say "no this wasn't Theon... it was the bastard of the dreadfort"

Other than that I actually enjoyed the other story lines. I love how we got to see Jaquen Hagar switch faces, and I thought the house of the undying scene was cool despite the changes. The fact Dany entered a throne room filled with SNOW and then exited through the gates of The Wall... very cool (especially for all you R+L=J fans)

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Above, it was supposed to say "Xaro's xhiz-nit," not "Xaro's whiz-nit," but now the board issues won't let me edit it. Dratz!

Also, two articles:

THIS and THIS

Enjoy!

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Man, what a let down. I watched Blackwater probably 10 times, but I have no drive to watch this finale again.

I loved how ASOIAF became Narnia during the HOTU scene. Sike. That shit was weaksauce. And the stupid vision of Drogo was pointless.

Best part of the episode was Dinklage's crying. That dude is an insane actor, he just pulls at the heart strings. This could've been the best episode of the scene (even after the high octane Blackwater). They just dropped the ball big time. I'd love to see D&D put a good spin on it, as I'm sure some of the reviews that come out won't be as glowing as previous episodes.

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Now I understand why GRRM only dealt with the battle of Blackwater in his episodes and no other storylines... The writers of the show have already diverged the other story lines so far from the books there's little use in GRRM standing in to do the writing for them.

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I d'awwed at the part where Rickon and Bran frantically offered to heal Luwin. So sad but cute. HotU was a definite letdown. I'm not sure if those scenes were slight hints at what's to come in the books. Is Drogo supposed to come back? A snow-covered Red Keep = dragon attack on King's Landing that results in Jon or some other Stark ruling? Or maybe the Others win the final battle... no idea.

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That was the least scary zombie army I have ever seen. And I have seen a lot of zombie armies.

Really loved the series so far, but the Others are the first major-screwup. Good thing they are not the main antagonists for the next five seasons. House of the Undying also could have used a bit more pizzazz, especially the warlock head honchos. Liked the classic fantasy chained Danymsel, though. Good work by the designers on that part. Otherwise (no pun intended), not a bad season finale.

Edit: Minor kudos to the writer that gave the warlocks a plausible motivation that is coherent with the books for abducting the dragons and imprisoning her.

Edited by Rabbity

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Umm, in Sam's last scene, were those _Others_ on the horses, or wights? The one that stared at Sam looked nothing like the S1 other. Hell, he looked like he was half tree. Hmm, WeirwoodSwampThing?

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So what was the point of casting Dontos this season?

Does anyone else think they they took out scenes or heavily editimg the script while shooting? I cant help but think this season was sorta choppy an incomplete...

Also... I guess dany and her dragons will burn down The red keep.... FORESHADOWING

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3. The sacking of Winterfell... Who sacked the city? In the books it was Ramsey, in the show.... well, who knows! I think Maester Luwin should have at least said something about Ramsey. I understand due to casting issues we probably wouldn't see Ramsey this season, because why would HBO want to get an actor on retainer for such a long period of time, but it's free for HBO to mention him. All it would have taked is for Maester Luwin to say "no this wasn't Theon... it was the bastard of the dreadfort"

Yep, Bran-Hodor-Asha-Rickon-Jojen-Meera have to evade the flayed men, otherwise they head to the nearest village and wait for a northern bannerman to show up.

ETA: Maybe Luwin crawled to the godswood before Winterfell was sacked?

Theon getting thumped betrayed was pretty fucking cool. The non-book readers who were watching with me cheered to see him get punished. Oh, what little they know...

Edited by CloudFlare

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"Also, you are right, the White Walkers only come at night. Mance Rayder says so in ASOS."

They only did that before the dragons returned. Maybe they act different now.

What is that 700 foot tall wall for in the first place? Perhaps they are magical creatures. It appears to be magic, riding dead horses and stuff.

Sam may have survived the same way the other craven person survived, the poor chap that had his head lopped off in the first season by Ned.

Loved the Brienne scene. Thought it was gonna go wonky when she killed the last dude not quickly, but it was still relatively quick. Just relatively quick though. She is still the most good knight-like.

Liked the Dany story line. Drogo was touching. Loved the first little smoke ring. Little dragons were trying!

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For me , the finale was good and bad at the same time. I liked direction and actors but just like with the last year, Beniof and Weiss obviously have seen the finale just as means to tie some loose ends as quickly as possible.

- Stannis and Melissandre, while well acted, was total cliché IMHO.

- Theon and Winterfell: victim of adaptation, anticlimactic, especially becouse sudden transition to burned castle and kinda disappointing death of Luwin.

- Dany in Quarth: was lame in the book, even lamer in the TV version for the whole season.

- KL, Arya and Jacquen and the ending worked fine.

Edited by Rhodan

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HOTU scenes were mishandled. No Robb at the RW? No Rhaegar and TPTWP? This was probably Dany's best chapter and since I find her pretty boring, this was one of the few things I was looking forward to from her story arc. Disappointed

Robb gets married in the light of the seven? Why? If I'm not mistaken he worships the Old Gods like his father did.

The scene with the Others felt weird. I don't know how to explain it, but it didn't feel right. I thought they only came when it was dark? The Others weren't as I pictured them, nor as they were portrayed in the epilogue in season 1.

The rest of the episode was pretty enjoyable. Although, I thought that Loras was going to be named to the Kingsguard during his scene. I guess that can happen later. Also, what is Varys planning with Ros? Interesting.

Robb getting married under the new gods was a slip up as was the abandonment of WInterfell. Even if they let all the Iron Islands go as Robb ordered, the northmen still would have occupied Winterfell in some fashion... Saw Theon's demise coming a mile off... Didnt really mind the changes to THotU except my general complaint that the show doesnt do a good job with foreshadowing and important flashbacks. Half the fun of the books is the mysteries that the show likes to avoid.

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