[Book Spoilers] Game of Thrones, an adaptation of A Song of Ice and Fire? Not any more.

[wandarah]

If you read forums of unspolied non-readers, they all fucking love it. They all get it.

[Castel]

I think Mad Men is a somewhat descent example to show this..I have watched four seasons of that show and I love it. But man sometimes they talk about stuff and I have no freaking clue what their talking about, whether it be about business, politics, or history. They don't dumb down their show. And just because I don't understand every bit of dialogue or catch every reference on the show, it doesn't make me not want to watch the show.

Not the same at all. Mad Men has references to times past that you can get or not get. Same with shows like the Wire. Understanding enhances the experience but lack of knowledge doesn't detract from it.

I'm personally talking about scenes that don't make sense when they should, like Luwin sending the kids away from Winterfell. Littlefinger and Harrenhal was shaping up to be a borderline example, but thankfully they sorted it out the next episode.

I don't mind many of the changes they made, but some of the ones they did make things make less sense. It's less a matter of going your own way and more them cutting out important bits that will make it harder to understand the plot later on.

[Somnus]

I normally don't understand complainers that comlain about how Renly wasn't eating a peach, or how there was no mention to the ghost of Renly, or how Davos only has one son. I was okay with the Jeyne's replacement and Robb's stubborness.

I was a bit sad that they cut Ramsay's introduction since it's a very powerful introduction but hey I thought they'd make it up in the last ep.

But not...and this ep was the ep that made me feel anger towarde what I was watching.

Winterfell was burned without even explaining that it was RAMSAY that did it. I bet 99% of the viewers think the ironborn did it. Qhorin died without making it clear that he wanted Jon Snow to infiltrate the Wildlings.

And then the house of the undying became a joke. The scene i was more looking foward in the show was replaced by DanyxDrogo for the female fans. What the f*** ?

No Rhaegar, no Wolf King, no prophecies, no mad king, no song of ice and fire. Doreah being wasted on a stupid plot, if they intended to get rid of Doreah this way they should've killed her in the red waste and let irri live to fulfill her role in the book.

This is no longer little changes, this is huge changed that change the way people see characters in a completely different way. I always thought that Dany's actions in ADwD were fueled by a paranoia over the prophecies...that she no longer has.

The only way they can fix what has been left out Imo is to have Quaithe in the next season tell her the prophecies, have a Robert Rebellion prequel before they reach ADwD and have the Rhaegar and Mad King scene where he talks about the prophecies and the song of ice and fire and we see the level of madness of the Mad King.

But whatever what I felt from Dany's TV prophecies is that after the red wedding they'll make only one more season that will be mostly filler and tying loose ends and have it end with Dany saving the world from the Others

I'll still watch the show though, if I was a TV viewer I'd love it to death, so from now on I'll differentiate the two. The book and the what if TV version ( that is still pretty good if you don't compare it with the books)

[duncanthemedium]

I love the show for what it is. I love the books for what they are. Linda and company, your posts make me feel like I am betraying the books by liking the show. That is something I cannot abide.

Don't like the show? (A show that is hailed as the best show on TV in Britain and the US?) Don't watch it. But do not imply that there is something bad about feeling grateful for being able to watch our favorite characters brought to life in a different medium.

For people who are fantasy/sci-fi fans, I'm afraid, there is a whole lot of lack of imagination going around here. Think of the series as an alternate universe, where things happen almost exactly the way they do in your 'reality', but not quite. I think that might assuage your feeling of betrayal.

Kudos to D&D for making an awesome show. Can't wait for season 3.

[Toccs]

I love the show for what it is. I love the books for what they are. Linda and company, your posts make me feel like I am betraying the books by liking the show. That is something I cannot abide.

And comments like yours make me feel like I should feel guilty for not liking certain aspects of the show, how is that any different? Get down from your high horse mate.

Don't like the show? (A show that is hailed as the best show on TV in Britain and the US?) Don't watch it. But do not imply that there is something bad about feeling grateful for being able to watch our favorite characters brought to life in a different medium.

Well first off I don't think that anyone is implying that there is something bad about liking the show. Second, this is a forum for aSoIaF fans and we're discussing an adaptation into a TV series and guess what? not liking said adaptation is a perfectly valid opinion to have.

It's pretty obvious from the thread title that this was going to be a "things I dislike about the show" thread, you coming in here with that knowledge and saying that every post is somehow invalid really annoys me.

I really don't see how people discussing what they don't like about the show is in any way an insult aimed at you.

[Nathaniel Hawke]

I disagree with OP. I understand that many people were disappointed from the changes in the house of the undying, particularly the whole issue of leaving many of the past events untold. But we all have to remember that martin has about a thousand pages for each book to unfold his story.. I would, of course, love to see HotU as I hoped it would be, but then, many questions would arise for the non-readers and there would simply not be enough time to explain all of this.

It is a terrible thing HBO must consider, a vile thing.. Yet they who presume to write the show must sometimes do vile things for the good of all the fanbase, readers and non-readers.

[Ran]

Have I missed something here??

Yes.

Isn't GRRM part of the creational process of the series?

Not really. He doesn't see the scripts, he's not asked to approve anything. He's occasionally consulted.

Aren't any changes made by D&D supposed to be reviewed and approved by GRRM??

:rofl:

No.

Are you people saying that GRRM is not in accord to what is being done to his creation?

Don't think anyone is saying that. That said, GRRM already said -- even in the first season -- that the showrunners make adaptation choices that he himself would not make were he the one running the show. But, hey, it's their show and he's just happy that something of his work is getting out there.

Whether the gutting of the House of the Undying of every single image, moment, and resonance is something he'd not be particularly fond of is a question I leave to you, but it's also an academic one: it doesn't matter, because GRRM doesn't get to say what everyone else likes or doesn't like. It's subjective, and we each decide that one for ourselves.

[End of Disc One]

I'm so glad these books aren't a bible to me and I can enjoy the show for what it is.

[Stannis the Stern]

I thought they made a pigs mess out of Theon's storyline, pretty much because they omitted Ramsay. Now with Season 3 coming, instead of creating what was a sick-twisted yet cunning character what ACOK lead to, he's going to seem just like a generic villain. The weasel soup was another thing that really pissed me off as it was vital to Arya's character arc.

[Ser Giant]

Winterfell was burned without even explaining that it was RAMSAY that did it. I bet 99% of the viewers think the ironborn did it. Qhorin died without making it clear that he wanted Jon Snow to infiltrate the Wildlings.

It was made clear in their conversation a couple episodes ago, if Jon didnt understand what Q was spittin' than he truly knows nothing.

[Mediumjon Umber]

Ah, come on. If I could dislike this thread I would. Clearly the OP has no idea whatsoever what budget, ratings and short term plot has to do with creating a TV show of this calibre. They just can't make a successful show, that follows the exact plot of the book. It's impossible. Even if all of you book purists would donate all your lifesavings to this show, it would still be utter crap if they'd make a direct book-to-TV show. You would think it'd be awesome, but what about the casual viewers, who are in majority? Would they be able to follow a multitude of characters and all the twists and turns of the story? Would they know what every POV character was thinking at a given moment? You would, because you've read the books, and you know what drives every character.

I find this way of thinking narrowminded. Not to mention sad. It's sad that you can't enjoy the greatest TV show in years, just because it isn't exactly like the way you wanted it to be. The way I see it, the books are still the official aSoIaF, the show comes second. I already know what happens in the books, so why would I need repetition? I like seeing changes, even if they aren't always to my liking.

Enjoy raging on the internet. Meanwhile I will enjoy rewatching that awesome finale that is 'Valar Morghulis'.

[kungtotte]

Yeah, I really have to stop seeing this as "Game of Thrones, the TV-show" and more like "A fantasy TV show inspired by ASOIAF". It can still be enjoyable I guess, but it's a shame since they started off so well in season one.

[Sir Cadogan]

I'm so glad these books aren't a bible to me and I can enjoy the show for what it is.

:') so true.

[David Selig]

The less prophesies the better as far as I am concerned, both in the books and in the show .

And it may sound blasphemous to some, but I thought the Drogo - Dany scene was more interesting and moving than any of the HOTU visions in the books. PTWP, Azor Ahai, all this stuff bores me to tears.

[Elroy Mankins]

While I was disappointed that the HotU wasn't more faithful to the books, it's not the end of the world. My guess is the prophecy will still play a part, and will probably be conveyed either by Quaite or through dreams. I though the WWs looked pretty cool, although not how I had imagined them. It certainly was slightly unbelievable that a WW/Other would stare directly at Sam and then just continue on his merry way. Oh well. I'm still enjoying the show for what it is.

[Lyanna Stark]

Ah, come on. If I could dislike this thread I would. Clearly the OP has no idea whatsoever what budget, ratings and short term plot has to do with creating a TV show of this calibre.

Do you perchance know who the OP is? I am guessing no. :P

Just want to say thank you to Linda for posting that.

Yeah, I really have to stop seeing this as "Game of Thrones, the TV-show" and more like "A fantasy TV show inspired by ASOIAF". It can still be enjoyable I guess, but it's a shame since they started off so well in season one.

Indeed. I thought season 1 was mostly spot on, but now? Cat's and Robb's characters have been gutted, Dany's storyline is just bewildering, Jon has lost his duty, Arya is a jolly happy assassin in training with no darkness to her character, Bronn is 100% hilarious and his lack of moral compass is not touched on, The Hound is one dimensional and most of his good lines ended up with Littlefinger, who in turn shows his hand to all and sundry. The backstory with Rhaegar and Lyanna is also totally lost.

[Jamie Lannister]

Eh, fortunately my "characters of choice" have generally been treated alright... give or take a little cousin bludgeoning. I've never cared too much for Dany and the prophetic side of things, so this isn't a huge blow, but still. It was a disappointment, and coupled with the stunningly efficient botching of Theon's otherwise interesting story this season... well. S2 ended on a pretty stale note for me.

On the other hand, I'm over trying to see ASoIaF faithfully brought to television; it's evidently not going to happen. I can settle for seeing my favourite characters brought to life in a looser sense.

[dreamcatcher]

I think the fact that 33 people (so far) liked the first post in this thread speaks volumes. Seriously, half of the viewership is probably made of fans of the novels, couldn't they just stick to some easy-to-adapt stories? I love this show to bits, but some things really make me mad - like the complete and utter destruction of Jon's personality, the non-existant prophecies and visions (they could include just ONE from the books and we be happy).

It's sad that we won't probably ever see any prophecies now. After the omission of ToJ last season I was 100% that we'll see something in the HotU, simply because they could show things in three seconds and the obsessed fans of the show would be given a bone to chew on, and the other viewers would simply forget or brush it off. It wouldn't hurt.

I'll still watch it, it's just that my expectations have now drastically lowered. And I'll have to work really hard to get Jon Show out of mind when re-reading the books. I want my own image of Jon Snow to return >.<

Plus, some people need to stop blaming the small budget because not a penny more would be spent if Jon and Qhorin exchanged additional lines, or if Mormont wouldn't make fun of Jon, or if the Undying told their prophecies, or if there was at least a blue flower in the snow when Dany's walking through the Wall...

[Silverx2]

I have to say they have completely ruined the character of Margery Tyrell. First with the scene with Renley where they imply a sexual relationship with Loris (or at the very least they r very open about Loris' sex life), then she goes on with Littlefinger about wanting to be "the queen" and now she is throwing herself at Joffrey in the Red Keep. Certainly nothing like the girl in the books.

Can you point me to the Marg POV chapters where you are basing this judgement?

Marg in the books is not some goody goody two shoes who is sugar and spice and everything nice. shes a plotting coniving player in the game of thrones, who helped plan the assassination of joffrey in order to marry little tommen.. if anything the TV show has enhanced her character because it shows just how involved she is.

[nubreed000]

I had said before the season started that for this season, the only thing I really hoped for was that they would get the House of the Undying right. If not, I would find it hard to continue watching. Since they didn't even try to get it right, they just threw it in the trash, I have absolutely no interest in watching any more.

I agree 100% with that statement. I don't want to hear the "oh viewers would get confused"/"there's no budget" excuses. It doesn't matter. I bet 80% of the viewership is confused as is because there's so many characters to follow, and a lot of the dialogue goes over their heads regardless. Adding the visions wouldn't make it any worse, but it would certainly add depth and discussion to the story. Instead of Dany going into each room and witnessing every scene, they could have easily just been voices reciting the lines (like someone in the actual HotU thread mentioned).

The Red Wedding scene itself wouldn't have spoiled anything because very few people would take a vision that literally. I think most would interpret it as Robb sitting on the throne and all the bodies around him would signify the people he had to kill to get there. And the others would forget about it as soon as the episode ended. The fact that these scenes need to be dropped because it might "confuse" the poor little viewers is ridiculous. Somehow Lost managed to last 6 seasons and that confused A LOT of people right to the very end. These guys don't have to cater to the lowest common denominator because that's not who watches this show. They're not competing for viewers against American Idol, Grey's Anatomy or Desperate Housewives. The reason why so many people fell in love with the show is because of the depth/history of the story and world, the character development (which completely went out the window this season), and the mystery.

Like you I'm incredibly disappointed with this scene, and with the season in general. The shadow monster looked like something out of Lost, Joffrey ordering the killing of the babies made no sense whatsoever, Catelyn releasing Jaime before finding out about Bran and Rickon, and the whole Qhorin/Jon Snow thing was just incredibly confusing...epic fails. Sure these guys apparently know the end game but they seem to be completely missing the motivations of characters' actions.

edit oh and Jaime killing his cousin.,,FFS!

edit 2 why oh why did they even waste a second on anything that happened in Kings Landing? They dedicated a whole episode to that arc. They could've used the last episode to focus on the characters that didn't appear there at all. Instead we lost like 15 minutes on Varys recruiting the whore and Tywin's horse shitting.