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YazzyYaz

Could Melisandre resurrect Jon Snow?

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I just hope, as others have said, that he either isn't dead or he stays dead. Enough with the "Un" characters.

What always made GoT and GRRM so fantastic was that he played for keeps, there wasn't the urge to keep bringing people back or faking their deaths. How many "Uns" and fake deaths have we seen now? I would like this whole carousel of characters dying and undying come to an end. The entire time Jon was being stabbed all I could think was...yeah right he ain't dead.

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No, he won't stay dead, if he actually is. Mel clearly has the hots for him (pun intended) and maybe even is starting to suspect his larger role in the prophesy.

Not sure why anyone here thinks Ramsey is heading to the Wall! Really? Why, becasue he said so? The letter was bogus from start to finish, (esp. in light of the preview chapter of TWOW released a while back). The whole thing was just lunatic ranting and lies. I doubt they Mance or any of his women either. All the Boltons, etc. are surrounded by massive amounts of snow and are not about to start marching up the Wall, this year or many after. Maybe Jon and the wildlings might have a better go at to meet him at Winterfell, but Ramsey and everyone else there has a lot more to deal with close by with Stannis and his army.

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It is highly doubtful that Jon Snow is dead, and that Mel possesses abilities to resurrect anyone..

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Ramsay would go to any lengths to retrieve "Arya" and "Reek", both for his own sick purposes and because the Bolton claim to WF and the loyalty of the North is predicated on the marriage.

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It is highly doubtful that Jon Snow is dead, and that Mel possesses abilities to resurrect anyone..

Oh, I think Varamyr's prelude and its comments on a warg's wife, Jon becoming more and more attuned to Ghost throughout Dance, Melisandre seeing Jon whenever she looked for Azor Ahai, all hint that Jon is the PWWP and will be 'born' under a bleeding star with salt and smoke present.

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I think Jon is dead, but seeing as he has some targaryan blood in him, fire cannot burn his corpse, and he comes alive as something other then a wight.

How did the nights watch deal with dead targaryans?

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It occurs to me that "Ramsey's" letter may in fact not be his letter at all. It could be a faked letter by some Night's Watch schemers who correctly deduced it would push an already stretched Jon over the edge into committing some major treasonous act and give them the excuse to strike. It's been noted in this thread how carefully planned out the whole attack was and how odd it came at just this moment. They certainly could have known of the Mance/spear wives mission and just cooked up this fake letter to create a perfect pretext push things into chaos. I agree Ramsey's crazy to say he's coming and all, but almost everything he claims in the letter is either a lie, mis-information or un-confirmable. If it was really him and he really had Mance, wouldn't send along some skin to prove it?

Jon's a lot like Danereys in that they both makes half of the hard decions, just enough to piss everyone around them off, but won't follow through and with the ones that might really set things right. Why'd he put up with the stupid boar/skin changer right there at Castle Black. And Mel is giving himn warnings every time she sees him to keep Ghost around. And he's surrounded by guys that can't wait to literally stab him in the back. Why not send them ranging or off to defend some far away outpost?

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I think Jon is dead, but seeing as he has some targaryan blood in him, fire cannot burn his corpse, and he comes alive as something other then a wight.

How did the nights watch deal with dead targaryans?

Hasn't jon already been burnt before?

i hope he doesn't die and get resurrected in the literal sense as its been done before and wouldn't carry as much shock an weight as it did for the likes of dondorrian. i do think melisandre will heal him or play a part in his recovery somehow

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Yep. I agree. Melissandre staying on the Wall is no coincidence. And this theory about the faked letter by some Night's Watch schemers realy fits.

I just hope Jonstays don't turn up to be an undead or a boring mute trapped spirit inside Ghost...

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Hasn't jon already been burnt before?

i hope he doesn't die and get resurrected in the literal sense as its been done before and wouldn't carry as much shock an weight as it did for the likes of dondorrian. i do think melisandre will heal him or play a part in his recovery somehow

Yeah actually he got his hand burnt pretty badly when he threw that lantern at the un-dead NW brother in AGOT. Another one of the GRRM phrases I grew pretty tired of hearing..."Jon flexed his sword hand open and closed."

And while we're at it I think we can safely put to bed "You know nothing Jon Snow." Please?

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I think Jon is dead, but seeing as he has some targaryan blood in him, fire cannot burn his corpse, and he comes alive as something other then a wight.

How did the nights watch deal with dead targaryans?

It was never a problem before since the un-dead thing only started recently; at least not for a thousand years or so. The last dead "true" full-blood Targaryen was the old Maester Jon had sent off with Sam down to Old Town. But recall not all of them had this aspect anyway. Viserys got his molten crown and died of the burns.

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It was never a problem before since the un-dead thing only started recently; at least not for a thousand years or so. The last dead "true" full-blood Targaryen was the old Maester Jon had sent off with Sam down to Old Town. But recall not all of them had this aspect anyway. Viserys got his molten crown and died of the burns.

Daenerys also burned her hands in ADWD. I feel like there should be a sticky at the top of every board that explains how Targaryens are not immune to heat or fire at all times.

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I do not think that Jon is permanently dead, but I do think that it's very telling that he was 'killed' at the end of DwD. Martin's conundrum was this, in my opinion: He needs to get the Others to invade Westeros, but a very important character is currently - and, given his position, permanently - at the Wall; a place that will be among the first to be wiped out. So, ironically, in order to have Jon survive he needed to kill him to get him out of the way.

As to how Jon will return, I do probably think Melisandre is the key. I don't really see any other reason for her to stay at the Wall, when she could have went with Stanis and done her shadow trick to Roose Bolton in Winterfell.

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The difference between Jon being given the kiss of fire and Cat being resurrected is that Cat isn't a warg. As a warg Jon's spirit has a place to retreat to when his body is killed instead of moving on. If you accept this, then you will understand that Cat and Beric were just shells of themselves because their souls had already moved on leaving just their memories behind, and even those faded after a few resurrections in Beric's case. Jon's body would be resurrected and his spirit would most likely be able to return to his body after spending time in ghost. The evidence for this scenario comes in the Varamyr prologue, where the skinchanger muses over the possibility of a second life within Ghost. In fact he says something along the lines of a second life in a direwolf like that would be a second life fit for a king (foreshadowing of Jon's lineage by GRRM). Another source I see as evidence to this theory is Mel's vision of Jon in her fire going from man to wolf and back to man again. That's pretty much as plain as GRRM could spell it out for us without giving us the resurrection chapter in Dance. Also, the line from Maester Aemon, "Kill the boy and let the man be born" echos this theory pretty much word for word. If all that doesn't convince you people that Jonny boy is coming back bigger and badder than ever i don't know what will.

Hit the nail on the head for me with this post. Kill the boy and let the man be born is a cool saying but George does like his foreshadowing haha

Something else that just hit me is the wildling superstition that people with red hair are lucky because they've been "kissed by fire." We see the phrase a lot in SoS in the Jon PoVs at the same time that we see Arya's storyline with Beric and his resurrections through the power of R'hollor's kiss. For me this kind of sets up the scenario at the end of Dance where you have wildlings who obviously want to follow Jon, you have a Red Priestess who even if she doesn't think she can resurrect Jon might want to burn his body (for many reasons: 1. King's blood as Robb's brother or a Stark bastard 2. Wildling custom to burn the bodies and he follows the Old Gods 3. So he doesn't come back as a walker) and she might feel emotional towards the situation like, "Oh Jon Snow you stupid bastard you should have listened to me. Daggers in the dark I told him. Keep Ghost close I told him. And now he's dead and we have to burn him. You know he's pretty sexy even though he's dead, I think I'll give him a fiery kiss to send him off." BOOM Jon is resurrected, his wounds are healed, and the wildlings think he is lucky because he's been kissed by fire, Mel names him Azor Ahai reborn (especially now that Stannis is presumed dead), and we officially have a new sheriff in town. He might even awaken the dragon within him if you prescribe to the R+L=J theory making him impervious to fire which would be pretty bad ass. Although I'm in the camp of those who believe Jon is of the North, more kissed by ice than by fire, but we'll have to wait and see.

Personally think he will be healed like Vic rather than go full resurrection like Beric and Cat. Impervious to fire would be total bad ass and would shut Dany up real quick in an argument :cool4: . With Jon going into Ghost then maybe he does do that and then he figures out that his body has been saved by fire like Vic and just has to warg but into his unconscious body. Perhaps a time for Bloodraven and Bran to say hi :cheers: .

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IMO, well before the end, when Mel said the thing about kniefs in the dark, that Jon would get stabbed, that he had to "die" and that she would raise him from the dead, because

  1. he had to die to be reborn
  2. he had to die to leave the NW
  3. he had to die to Become King of the North
  4. to go back to WF cripts and find whats there
  5. For lightbringer to be reforged

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Jon is not AA. Period. Speculate all you want, your ideas are nuts. Dany is at least more likely to be AA, and she is likely to kill someone close to her, like Mormont, or someone.

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Personally think he will be healed like Vic rather than go full resurrection like Beric and Cat. Impervious to fire would be total bad ass and would shut Dany up real quick in an argument :cool4: . With Jon going into Ghost then maybe he does do that and then he figures out that his body has been saved by fire like Vic and just has to warg but into his unconscious body. Perhaps a time for Bloodraven and Bran to say hi :cheers: .

I agree with this. Thoros had no intention of bringing Beric back, he was very surprised when what was a last rite he performed many times before actually breathed animation back into a corpse. Thoros was, by his own admission, not a very pious or devout priest. If he can accidentally do it, yet the fundamentalist firebrands (see what I did there?) like Mel haven't done it before, then in my mind this points to it not being something that can be done at will.

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Jon is not AA. Period. Speculate all you want, your ideas are nuts. Dany is at least more likely to be AA, and she is likely to kill someone close to her, like Mormont, or someone.

Do you always speak as if your opinion is fact? I don't begin to claim I know who AA is because it is too far from certain, but if you're going to proclaim it's Dany, surely you should explain why when Melisandre asks for visions of Azor Ahai her flames show her "Snow".

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"snow" is quite a stretchy thing, you see, Mel's:

a) "snow" may indicate just that - snow

B) "snow" may indicate Jon Snow; or

c) "snow" may indicate Ramsay Snow; or

d) "snow" may indicate any other Northern bastard...

Besides, Mel is not particularly good and trustworthy in her readings of the fire.

Granted, no one can possibly say who the AA is exactly, still certain educated guesses are indeed made on these forums. Some people believe it JS, the others believe Dany, and the rest believe entirely differently. I for one would enjoy nothing more than Pod becoming flame-master-winter-slayer-rage-of-all-the-westeros AA. Irrespective of that, he probably wouldn't, but still the joy of expecting the plot going that way is still something no one can take from me :)

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