Could Melisandre resurrect Jon Snow?

[nothatso]

"snow" is quite a stretchy thing, you see, Mel's:

a) "snow" may indicate just that - snow

B) "snow" may indicate Jon Snow; or

c) "snow" may indicate Ramsay Snow; or

d) "snow" may indicate any other Northern bastard...

Besides, Mel is not particularly good and trustworthy in her readings of the fire.

Granted, no one can possibly say who the AA is exactly, still certain educated guesses are indeed made on these forums. Some people believe it JS, the others believe Dany, and the rest believe entirely differently. I for one would enjoy nothing more than Pod becoming flame-master-winter-slayer-rage-of-all-the-westeros AA. Irrespective of that, he probably wouldn't, but still the joy of expecting the plot going that way is still something no one can take from me :)

"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow."

It was capitalized and was the last word of a sentence. Either it's a name, or it's a typo. And what other "Snow" would she be referring to if it's shown to her when she asks for AA? Ramsay, besides being ridiculous (she also hasn't seen his face before and wouldn't recognize him), is known as Bolton by this point. Do you think her flames are showing her random pictures of northern bastards for the fun of it? How would she recognize them?

[brut]

She is also the one believing that Stannis is AA... Kinda discredits the whole "put your trust in Mel's fire readings" thing.

[nothatso]

She is also the one believing that Stannis is AA... Kinda discredits the whole "put your trust in Mel's fire readings" thing.

Certainly she has issues interpreting what she sees in her flames, yet there was no interpretation going on here. She simply says she sees "Snow", not something that she thinks represents "Snow". Granted there may have been a step that we did not see deliberately, but it was in her own PoV.

There is the chance that whatever or whoever is showing her images is manipulating her, and I haven't ruled that out, but if not I simply can't see any way that what she saw doesn't point towards Jon (outside of it being a typo).

[TheDarkOne]

"I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow."

It was capitalized and was the last word of a sentence. Either it's a name, or it's a typo. And what other "Snow" would she be referring to if it's shown to her when she asks for AA? Ramsay, besides being ridiculous (she also hasn't seen his face before and wouldn't recognize him), is known as Bolton by this point. Do you think her flames are showing her random pictures of northern bastards for the fun of it? How would she recognize them?

Do you believe the R+L=J?

If so, would he really be a Snow?

[woweezowee]

Do you believe the R+L=J?

If so, would he really be a Snow?

That's irrelevant, all that matters is that Mel refers to Jon as 'Snow'.

[baxter]

Clearly the Missionaria Protectiva planted this prophecy to help Mel the bene gesserit witch rule westeros. It is known.

[John Reynolds]

My personal theory is that while in the east Melisandre and her fellow shadow binders were recognizing other signs that a 2nd Long Night was approaching and they began looking for this era's AA. Melisandre thinks to herself in her one POV chapter that she's the best of her order at flame gazing, and as she began searching for the flames to show her she began seeing Stannis. Thus she assumed Stannis was AA, but her mistake was in assuming that, because (and here's my take) the flames showed her Stannis since he would lead her to the true AA. It was through Stannis and Melisandre's influence on him and his court that would lead to the Wall and Jon, so the flames showed her the surly Baratheon brother. And without that vision setting off the necessary chain of events. . .well, the wildlings would've overran the Wall, and Jon most likely would've died fighting against them.

[bent branch]

My personal theory is that while in the east Melisandre and her fellow shadow binders were recognizing other signs that a 2nd Long Night was approaching and they began looking for this era's AA. Melisandre thinks to herself in her one POV chapter that she's the best of her order at flame gazing, and as she began searching for the flames to show her she began seeing Stannis. Thus she assumed Stannis was AA, but her mistake was in assuming that, because (and here's my take) the flames showed her Stannis since he would lead her to the true AA. It was through Stannis and Melisandre's influence on him and his court that would lead to the Wall and Jon, so the flames showed her the surly Baratheon brother. And without that vision setting off the necessary chain of events. . .well, the wildlings would've overran the Wall, and Jon most likely would've died fighting against them.

This is also how I see this chain of events.

[JonTargaryenW/Viserion4WIN]

My personal theory is that while in the east Melisandre and her fellow shadow binders were recognizing other signs that a 2nd Long Night was approaching and they began looking for this era's AA.

I like this theory. Certainly there are other institutions in Martin's world that track and mark seasonal changes. The Citadel announced the end of summer with a pimped out raven and as surely as Ned bones are echoing somewhere in Westeros 'Winter has come', the archmaesters exchanged their calendars for WW themed ones.

The mystical presence beneath the shadow is also vigilant of the skies and would have recognized a seasonal shift. The red comet was a literal red flag for those familiar with dragon lore and it is also present in the myth of AA. Surely this alone would warrant some red priest types seeking out potential AA.

Melisandre considers herself to be the best of her sect at flame-o-vision and curiously enough in the same line seems to confirm there are other institutions in the business of fortuning.

"Melisandre had practiced her art for years beyond count, and she had paid the price. There was no one, even in her order, who had her skill at seeing the secrets half-revealed and half-concealed within the flames."

There are instances of other red priests making grand statements about Dany being AA but Mel has always been Stannis Stannis! Stannis!! And then she pulls a Snow??!! in her visions.

If she puts so much emphasis on her visions being accurate then why not interpret them more literally. i.e.

Mel- "Rh'llor. Please show me AA."

Rh'llor- "well um.... Okay here he I go. Put a little black there and then smudge a little grey in his eyes and also... Yea. Just touch it up with some fresh snow there. Good.... (this is an extremely weak Bob Ross impression that will not translate well to the... nvm..) and just finish up there with a little hair swoosh over his eyes kinda like an emo and there you have it... Azor Ahai Reborn"

Mel- "motherfucker that's just Jon Snow. Come on Rh'llor!! Rh'llordammit."

Rh'llor- " Why you know like my picture?? Okay I draw some more for you in flames!! Here is yor boyfriend Stannis... An heerz yor boyfrin PatchFace. "

wow sorry guys. OP!

Could Mel resurrect Jon?

Well Thoros didn't really know frenching Beric was gonna Romero him so...

Mel may just deliver the rights and Jon springs up.

I think there is more magic to unfold in this world so I'll wait patiently.....

In the meantime. I'm gonna go write more Mel/Rh'llor fan fiction.

[pragmaticus]

As a character Jon Snow is a pivot point or a tie,therefore did he die? Stabbing should be conclusive yet somewhere I read of some one who avoided dying from stab wounds because he was a mirror image body so his heart was on the right rather than left side and strangely enough it is not that rare in real life. Moreover Jon Snow had been warned of the dangers of daggers therefore the simple expedient of wearing chain mail could save him. Without Jon Snow the story of the ice wall dies because no one else can pick up the lead role on the wall except perhaps jaime Lanister who would then have a juxtaposition of roles and could he field the return of the two younger starks and Sansha but that leaves a direwolf outstanding? Melisandre in some ways is a red herring who in another place and time would be burnt as a witch or killed as a Rasputin. Indeed it is the fate of Stannis's daughter who was doomed to die which i think is the key to Melisadre's demise. The ice wall and the dragons are the key to the denouement with the Others because allthough fire destroys, water annihilates.

[all_Freys_must_die]

My personal theory is that while in the east Melisandre and her fellow shadow binders were recognizing other signs that a 2nd Long Night was approaching and they began looking for this era's AA. Melisandre thinks to herself in her one POV chapter that she's the best of her order at flame gazing, and as she began searching for the flames to show her she began seeing Stannis. Thus she assumed Stannis was AA, but her mistake was in assuming that, because (and here's my take) the flames showed her Stannis since he would lead her to the true AA. It was through Stannis and Melisandre's influence on him and his court that would lead to the Wall and Jon, so the flames showed her the surly Baratheon brother. And without that vision setting off the necessary chain of events. . .well, the wildlings would've overran the Wall, and Jon most likely would've died fighting against them.

i agree with this, somewhat. Mel must have realised by now that Stannis is merely a tool. He has a claim, and army (had) and is quite the General, so very useful for her needs. Whether Jon is AA or TPTWP is irrelevant to me. He is obviously a key to most if not all of the story so i am happy to wait and see. He aint dead tho. I like the idea of the healing (ala Victarion) and i agree it will require a 'warging' out or whatevs to remain 'normal' but can see GRRM going in any of these directions.

I'd also like Jon to (once he finds out that he's R+L=J) let unCat know that good old Ned was a faithful fellow and she judged him (jon) unfairly his whole life.

[Pope Killdragon]

People, Jon Snow if he's dead, will resurrect himself. He will definitely be reborn as Azor Ahai. The Prince that was promised.

[brut]

My personal theory is that while in the east Melisandre and her fellow shadow binders were recognizing other signs that a 2nd Long Night was approaching and they began looking for this era's AA. Melisandre thinks to herself in her one POV chapter that she's the best of her order at flame gazing, and as she began searching for the flames to show her she began seeing Stannis. Thus she assumed Stannis was AA, but her mistake was in assuming that, because (and here's my take) the flames showed her Stannis since he would lead her to the true AA. It was through Stannis and Melisandre's influence on him and his court that would lead to the Wall and Jon, so the flames showed her the surly Baratheon brother. And without that vision setting off the necessary chain of events. . .well, the wildlings would've overran the Wall, and Jon most likely would've died fighting against them.

But Mel did not lead Stan to the Wall. It was Sir Davos who persuaded him. Actually, I seem to recall that she was objecting the trip....

[bent branch]

But Mel did not lead Stan to the Wall. It was Sir Davos who persuaded him. Actually, I seem to recall that she was objecting the trip....

That is kind of the point. The fire led Melisandre to Stannis, and then Stannis led her to the Wall.

[brut]

That is kind of the point. The fire led Melisandre to Stannis, and then Stannis led her to the Wall.

Then why didn't the fire "show" her Jon Snow instead Stannis in the first place? She could have been led to Winterfell without any problems. Or is this to imply that the ways of Red God are miraculous? My apologies, but irrespective of what Mel thinks about her fire reading abilities, she is the least worthy of following.

And I shall reiterate, that Davos led Stannis to the Wall. As for Mel, all she did was kill Stan's brother - ironically with the magic which may not be that of the Red Religion at all - and gave him the mockery of a sword. Really, why do people believe that Mel is the strongest magician there is?

[John Reynolds]

Then why didn't the fire "show" her Jon Snow instead Stannis in the first place? She could have been led to Winterfell without any problems. Or is this to imply that the ways of Red God are miraculous? My apologies, but irrespective of what Mel thinks about her fire reading abilities, she is the least worthy of following.

And if the fires had shown her Jon and a glimpse of his location, how would she have been received had she shown up alone? How many women are serving in the Night's Watch?

And I shall reiterate, that Davos led Stannis to the Wall. As for Mel, all she did was kill Stan's brother - ironically with the magic which may not be that of the Red Religion at all - and gave him the mockery of a sword. Really, why do people believe that Mel is the strongest magician there is?

All she did was enable his attempt at King's Landing, which lead to a massive defeat, and thus removed Stannis as a GoT player. Which enabled his willingness to be persuaded north by Davos.

Mel might not be stronger than others, but she's certainly performed some of the strongest magic we've yet been shown by GRRM.

You're working overtime in this thread to avoid giving Mel any credit at all.

[Cerulean]

ETA: damn auto correct. Posting from my phone is fail lol.

Simply because Jon is one of my favorite characters I can't believe him to be dead. There has also been so much speculation and hinting and whatnot especially here on the forum that i firmly believe there just has to be more for Jon snow. Yes i am a R + L = J subscriber just for the record.

I would like to point out that while we have several examples of Red Priests in the texts (or simply males of the faith of the Lord of Light) we only have ONE example of a female - that being Melisandre.

Traditionally we know (biologically) that women are life givers and men do not have that power. In the SoIaF series we get an interesting juxtaposition of that fact - the men breathe life into dead and heal fatal wounds. I can't think of a single text based reference for Mel to have healed someone though there are two good examples (one being more straightforward than the other) of our red priestess birthing a shadow demon to bring DEATH. So, no. I do not feel that Melisandre has the power to breathe new life into Jon. She may be able to orchestrate a situation in which he has the opportunity to revive through other powers but it will only be with her indirect assistance: IE she runs interference or can somehow make sure the situation is right.

I also feel there is more to the "man being born" than Jon learning to make tough decisions - I like the decisions he has made. In context they have been more or less for the protection of the watch and the realm despite the nay sayers. Jon is a very powerful wary and he needs to be in touch and in acceptance with this part of him - a coma would be the perfect time or even a blip of time (like a coma would provide) where his mental "shield" is down and he can better interpret guidance.

We have seen wargs in action but never two warts in their animals consciously (through the beasts eyes) when the animals come muzzle to muzzle. I wonder what might be revealed in that situation.

I think that Jon may turn to Borroq almost immediately after he "wakes" with many questions.

Off to work now - loving the discussion though!

[brut]

And if the fires had shown her Jon and a glimpse of his location, how would she have been received had she shown up alone? How many women are serving in the Night's Watch?

Well, she could have started telling Stannis early on that he had to leave for the Wall, instead of messing with all the king's blood business.

All she did was enable his attempt at King's Landing, which lead to a massive defeat, and thus removed Stannis as a GoT player. Which enabled his willingness to be persuaded north by Davos.

Well, good Sir, all she did is fail Stannis. I mean, look at all the actions that were undertaken by Stannis following her advise. Bloody hell, she kills Stan's only remaining brother. The "Lightbringer" is obviously fake. The leeches were sham. The shadow figure is definitely NOT of R'hllor's practice, but some sort of shadowbinding. Attack on KL is obviously a disaster. Shooting off Orell was obviously non-magical. Her fire reading is way off the mark. She may not be even alive at all. Am I forgetting anything else?

Mel might not be stronger than others, but she's certainly performed some of the strongest magic we've yet been shown by GRRM.

Well, I am not trying to diminish her role. She certainly has influence on the events of Westeros, but thinking realistically, Mel is a grand failure. None of her performances - even the shadow - come at par with the magic we've seen so far. I'd argue MMD, the Warlocks, Dany, Thoros, Moqorro, even Qyburn have shown much stronger magic than Mel. Sweet mother of all hell, even Beric is better at flaming swords than her.

You're working overtime in this thread to avoid giving Mel any credit at all.

She should be given some credit, true, although her shortcomings should also be noted.

[Lady Wylla Manderly]

I don't think it will be Melisandre who resurrects Jon.

So, Melisandre constantly rambles about how “King’s blood can raise dragons,” and blah blah blah, right? Okay… we know that Stannis holds Theon captive and plans to execute him - most likely in front of a heart tree thanks to Asha. We know that Jon was stabbed -and is probably dead- at the end of ADWD. I think that Theon still has one more part to play in the story, and that will be to be the sacrifice that allows Azor Ahai to be reborn. Only death can pay for a life, and only a King’s blood can raise a Dragon. Yes, I’m a true believer of R+L=J, by the way xD

[A Stark in Salem]

People, Jon Snow if he's dead, will resurrect himself. He will definitely be reborn as Azor Ahai. The Prince that was promised.

It is known.