I think the Winds of Winter is going to be... Amazing.

[Lady Hodor]

So alot of the time on these forums I have read people talking about how they thought the books were going downhill.

While I don't agree, I do consent that some things were not as fantastic as expected, or at least not as the other books were.

But I believe that the Winds of Winter is going to make all of us regret doubting Martin for one single second, as its going to be epic.

Think about it. Martin obviously knows, from hearing fans or looking on sites like this, that some were disappointed in the last books.

And he's going to want to shock us back in awe and amazement so that our faith is regained in his story. And he will suceed.

Think about how much we have to look forward to in those pages!

- Whatever Daenerys decides to do with the Dothraki

- The fate of Aegon Targaryen and his plans

- Cersei and Margery's trials

- Arya as an assassin

- Stannis v Bolton

- Jon's fate

- The Others

- The trouble in the Vale

- Tyrion and the gold cloaks

- Whatever Lady Stoneheart is up to

- Possible revelations on the Tower of Joy

And when I look at that list I honestly have no idea of what way they might end up, as the story is so brilliantly unpredictable.

The Winds of Winter will be epic, that is my belief, as both Martin's retaliation and a story packed thick with amazing stories.

Even if it does end up coming out at Christmas 2015 or something, it just means he's spent longer to make it that much more legendary.

Do you reckon so too?

[danm_999]

I predict Winds of Winter will be a return to top form too. I think the narrative split and abandonment half way through writing of the 5 year leap really hurt AFFC and ADWD, but it looks like Winds of Winter is going to be structured more like A Storm of Swords, which is a good thing.

[kkae]

Well we had a big list of things we expected to happen or get resolved in ADwD and they didn't. However, it does sound promising to me that GRRM has said that many things from previous book will get resolved early in TWoW.

I'm myself going to try to keep my expectations in minimum since that is one of the reasons I didn't like ADwD so much on my first read.

[drigoly]

if Wow is going to be a 2nd SoS :bowdown: but if it's going to be a 2nd Ffc :bang: , i hope it will be the first one...

[DaveSumm]

I think the key thing in Winds will to be to group all the various POV's and eliminate unnecessary ones. So Dany/Victarion/Barristan/Tyrion can all meet and have a plot told from only Tyrion and Dany's POV, the north can all be condensed down to Theon, the Wall to Jon, Kings Landing to Cersei.......then if we can see some serious progression and action from these smaller number of plots.......ultimately we need to see the story take a serious contraction on its way to the end. I believe GRRM has described the whole story as starting in one place (winterfell), expanding out, then contracting back to one place again (not sure if this 'place' is literal or not). So we need to really see this direction by the end of Winds. If this happens, I think we can forgive the shortcomings of Feast/Dance as unavoidable from this 'middle-scope'.

[gogorath]

So alot of the time on these forums I have read people talking about how they thought the books were going downhill.

While I don't agree, I do consent that some things were not as fantastic as expected, or at least not as the other books were.

But I believe that the Winds of Winter is going to make all of us regret doubting Martin for one single second, as its going to be epic.

Think about it. Martin obviously knows, from hearing fans or looking on sites like this, that some were disappointed in the last books.

And he's going to want to shock us back in awe and amazement so that our faith is regained in his story. And he will suceed.

Think about how much we have to look forward to in those pages!

- Whatever Daenerys decides to do with the Dothraki

- The fate of Aegon Targaryen and his plans

- Cersei and Margery's trials

- Arya as an assassin

- Stannis v Bolton

- Jon's fate

- The Others

- The trouble in the Vale

- Tyrion and the gold cloaks

- Whatever Lady Stoneheart is up to

- Possible revelations on the Tower of Joy

And when I look at that list I honestly have no idea of what way they might end up, as the story is so brilliantly unpredictable.

The Winds of Winter will be epic, that is my belief, as both Martin's retaliation and a story packed thick with amazing stories.

Even if it does end up coming out at Christmas 2015 or something, it just means he's spent longer to make it that much more legendary.

Do you reckon so too?

Dance is probably my second favorite of the series (I know, I'm weird). That said, I think we're done with denouement and are moving towards a faster paced segment which should be more similar to the pacing of prior books. Not sure if it'll be aSoS, but more will happen, I think.

That said, I don't know if people on this forum will ever like anything as well as aSoS. For most, reading that book was a clean slate. There's been over 10 years of speculation here. People have their pet theories, have talked themselves raw over interpretations and things they want to see.

When they don't, they won't like it as much. Expectations are a b*tch.

[Silent_Hero]

Dance wasn't really that bad. The Theon chapters were probably the best of the series and though it may be the lowest of the series it's still way better than any other books out there right now and that's good enough for me. But I can't help but wait for TWOW to come.

[axels15]

I really liked A Dance with Dragons... And on a second read-through, I thought that A Feast for Crows was much better than I originally thought. Gogorath is right, expectations are a bitch, and a lot had ones that were maybe too high? And because, obviously, GRRM took his characters in a different direction than where many wanted, so people were upset

[KC_Accidental]

People think Dance with Dragons was bad?! I was not aware! I thought it was utterly amazing. Dany's chapters were great and full of excitement, Tyrion is back in action, Stannis is on the move, Jon and the Wildlings was fascinating, Jaime restores order to the Riverlands and does it with honour, Theon chapters were horribly good reading, Cersei got disgraced, the North is on the move again., Doran Martell is plotting, Aegon lands in Westeros with an army. There was so much happening and on a grand scale too.

There is no chance Winds of Winter will end up like Feast for Crows. Feast was bad because the war was winding down, it missed out much loved characters like Jon, Dany and Tyrion and there was long chapters of characters trudging across boring sparsely populated locations. Winds of Winter will look to wrap up some of the many stories, kill of some characters and the war will be in full swing again, in Westeros and at Mereen.

[Aquaman]

- Tyrion and the gold cloaks

Gold Cloaks? Or do you mean the Second Sons?

[FalconGK]

So alot of the time on these forums I have read people talking about how they thought the books were going downhill.

While I don't agree, I do consent that some things were not as fantastic as expected, or at least not as the other books were.

But I believe that the Winds of Winter is going to make all of us regret doubting Martin for one single second, as its going to be epic.

Believe what you want, but what purpose does speculating on this serve? It'll be what it is. How can we possibly predict whether this next book will be "epic" or not before it's even written? I have faith that the story will be better than just about every other fantasy book out there because Martin has consistantly met that standard. What I don't know is whether or not it'll live up to ASoS (which I'd say is the most emotionally invested I've ever been while reading a piece of literature). If the last two books are any indication though, I don't have my hopes up too high. I do have hope though.

Think about it. Martin obviously knows, from hearing fans or looking on sites like this, that some were disappointed in the last books.

And he's going to want to shock us back in awe and amazement so that our faith is regained in his story. And he will suceed.

This just doesn't wash. I think it's fair to say that AFFC (especially in comparison to the first 3) was pretty widely regarded as the weakest of the books (yes, yes, individuals may agree/disagree. I'm speaking generally here). So by your metric ADWD should have been awesome because Martin would have known that people were let down. But ADWD (IMO) didn't meet my expectations. It also assumes that Martin pays attention to these forums or other fan sites like it. If I were Martin (which I may be... no not really. But I could... nah just kidding... or am I?) I'd stay as far away from forums like this as I could. Also, your statement here supposes that Martin didn't try his hardest before, but NOW he will, and I just don't believe that. I believe Martin is trying to deliver the best story he can each time. He is just more/less successful on some books than others. I don't question his intent for 1 second. I believe he is trying his damndest to write the best story he can.

Lastly, and this may be pedantic, but even if your starting assumption is that he listens to fans/forum-posters and is inspired to great heights because he wants to "want to shock us back into awe", how can you POSSIBLY conclude NOW that "he will succeed"?

P.S. I don't mean to come off rude in my disagreement. If I do, I apologize. I just disagree with the premise of the OP.

[Crown]

There's so much going on:

North of the Wall (POV: Bran):

• Benjen Stark? Will he come back? Where has he been? What did he do?
  
• Bran, Jojen, Meera and Hodor in Bloodraven's Cave with the Children of the Forest. What will we see through his weirwood visions? Will they go back south?
  

The Wall (POV: Jon & Melisandre):

• Did Jon die?
  
• What will happen at the Wall between the Wildlings and the Night's Watch?
  

The North (POV: Asha, Theon & Davos):

• Will Stannis crush the Bolton's and the Freys with the Manderly's? Please, let that be true.
  
• Will Davos find Rickon and Osha, and bring them back to White Harbour?
  
• What's up with Mance?
  
• Who wrote the letter to Jon?
  

The Iron Islands (POV: Aeron):

• What the heck is Aeron up to, he's plotting something but what is it?
  
• What's Euron's plan? Will we find out?
  

The Vale (POV: Sansa):

• Littlefinger, what are you up to?
  

The Riverlands (POV: Jaime & Brienne):

• Seriously, where the fuck is the Blackfish? Did he take Jeyne with him? Does he have Robb's heir?
  
• What's the Brotherhood Without Banners planning to do on Daven (?) his wedding?
  
• Where are Galbart Glover and Maege Mormont with Robb's will?
  
• Will Jaime and Brienne get out of the Riverlands alive? Or is one of them death already?
  

King's Landing (POV: Cersei):

• What's going to happen after Kevan's death? Obviously the Tyrell's will seize power, but what will be the results for the Realm?
  
• Will Varys return to his former position? What is Varys' true endgame?
  
• How will Margaery's Trial end?
  
• What will the Sandsnakes do in King's Landing?
  

The Stormlands (POV: Jon Connington & Arianne):

• Will Aegon march on King's Landing? Will he win the Iron Throne?
  
• Will Jon's greyscale infect Aegon or any other major players?
  
• What's Arianne going to do there, marry Aegon?
  

Dorne (POV: Areo & Sam):

• How will Doran respond to Quentyn's death?
  
• What the heck are the Faceless Men doing in the Citadel?
  
• What is the Citadel's endgame?
  

Braavos (POV: Arya):

• Will Arya lose her identity or will she return to Westeros?
  

Mereen (POV: Victarion, Tyrion, Daenerys & Barristan):

• The Battle for Mereen, who will live, who will die?
  
• Will Victarion take a dragon for himself? Will he marry Daenerys?
  
• Will Daenerys forgive our lovely bear?
  

So many question, so few answers.

[FalconGK]

People think Dance with Dragons was bad?!

Depends on definition of "bad". Bad in comparison to most other authors? Not at all. Bad in comparison to GRRM at his best? Yes, I do feel that way. I could get into a laundry list of reasons why I was disappointed in the book, but that may derail the thread. I'll just say to try and sum it all up as concisely as possible: I was hoping for more ASoS and less AFfC. I don't feel that's what I got.

[FalconGK]

So many question, so few answers.

THIS in a nutshell is my disappointment in ADWD. Obviously the story can't pay off ALL of these plot lines in ADWD, as we want the vast majority of these to happen in TWOW/ADOS, but this late into the story it felt like Martin was just marking time instead of paying off the stuff he's already set up. For that matter we got too many NEW plots (think Connington) while long established plots (Benjen) are STILL nowhere to be found. How long are we gonna have to wonder "What happened to Benjen!?!?" We've been waiting 4 massive books. At this point I'm almost hoping someone just stumbles on his body so we can get it over with already. And that's sad. Chekov's gun says Benjen disappearance needs to be paid off, but does it really need to stretch on for 5+ books?

[UKS]

People said the same thing about 'Attack of the Clones'.

So be warned.

[Tattered Prince of Pgh]

I agree with the general mood of this thread....Dance was awesome, expectations are a bitch and GRRM's work is not everyone's personal dreamscape (I added that last one on my own). I like to reread all of the books before a new one comes out. In doing this, I feel you see the goal of what GRRM is trying to do. I would wait ten years for Winds if that is what it takes. It is his story and (this does not make sense); I even like the stuff I do not like (told you). This is a long way of saying Winds is going to be kick ass. Everything is set-up perfectly just the way GRRM wanted it (this was key). Could you imagine Tolkein succumbing to fan pressure (or money pressure or what have you pressure) and making LOTR two books? (Bad example, but I am new to posting)

I also wanted to say thank you to everyone here. I have been lurking on this site for years and I finally made a log-in so I could be a part. You guys (and girls, people I guess) are amazing and your posts are fun, entertaining and intelligent- plus they concern my favorite world to get lost in. :)

Long time lover and user of this site and first time poster!!!! THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!

-salvator

ps - check out Sharon K Penman or R Scott Bakker - both are epic and will make the wait for Winds easier. Penman's Sunne in Splendour is awesome and focuses on the War of Roses. Bakker's hero (or anti-hero) is awesome and very well written.

[gogorath]

I think Martin was probably very happy with Dance. It was certainly the best reviewed of his books. So I doubt he is changing anything based on feedback. I think it will get faster paced because we're nearing the end. I hope it will solve the biggest problem with Dance and Feast, which was the conflict between allowed length of books and structure.

[Guest]

I really liked A Dance with Dragons... And on a second read-through, I thought that A Feast for Crows was much better than I originally thought. Gogorath is right, expectations are a bitch, and a lot had ones that were maybe too high? And because, obviously, GRRM took his characters in a different direction than where many wanted, so people were upset

I still maintain that ADwD would have been much better received if only that 100 pages that got pushed into the next book had been included. Combining all of those wicked cliff-hangers after the longest wait of all left people underwhelmed, but a new book reader ten years in the future won't finish ADwD disappointed. They will finish it and dive into TWoW immediately like a crack fiend willing to kill for their next hit.

[baxter]

Well, I need to re-read ASoS because I don't recall its greatness being so superior, though I read all the books in a span of 6 weeks (lucky damn timing that ADwD came out so quickly after I finished AFFC) so I didn't really have time to process it, just went book to book to ... anywho, I think people probably had so long to speculate that they expected extreme greatness, especially after he wrote that damned note at the end promising the first readers it was only a year or so away.

I have no expectation for him to finish Winds for a few years at least, though I do hope somewhat that the plots have become more streamlined, at least in the east, and they can move forward quickly. Honestly though, it's still such a cluster**** of stories that I fear winds may be a bit all over the place. Unless he focuses the invasion very quickly and unifies Westeros. But I doubt it, there's too much to play out, it will probably end with the wall "falling" and then utter chaos all the while Dany is just kind of moping around the demon road.

[Lord Godric]

I don't think I have seen anyone suggest that TWoW will be a bad book. In fact, I usually see people suggest that it may be comparable to ASoS because there are clearly going to be major action scenes and the story will slowly come back together as the characters do. As others have said, splitting AFfC and ADwD really allowed Martin to expand where he didn't need to and his editor really screwed him over by having him move the major battles at the end of the book to TWoW, but with battles and (hopefully) a more concise tale where there is not only buildup but also an actual climax to the plot and TWoW should be great.