I think the Winds of Winter is going to be... Amazing.

[Stormheart]

I assume that Dany, Tyrion, and Jon will live until the end of the series (any of them might die at the end).

Any other POV could die before that (and I imagine that many of them will do).

Why does everyone assume that the main characters will live to the end? Remember a Game of Thrones? We all thought Ned was going to be the main character, and look what happened to him.

[SeanF]

Too much has been invested in those three.

[Melisandre's Shadow]

Depends on definition of "bad". Bad in comparison to most other authors? Not at all. Bad in comparison to GRRM at his best? Yes, I do feel that way. I could get into a laundry list of reasons why I was disappointed in the book, but that may derail the thread. I'll just say to try and sum it all up as concisely as possible: I was hoping for more ASoS and less AFfC. I don't feel that's what I got.

I thought it was more aCoK than aFfC... not so many huge events but a ton of plot building with a suspenseful ending.

But I'm sick of people using an impossible standard of aSoS... aSoS could quite possibly be the best fantasy novel of all time, maybe he will trump that with tWoW, but i bet hes more like to trump it with aDoS

[Whitering]

I really expect WoW to be as good as Storm, but I skip huge portions of Feast and Dance on rereads. I mean, I skip portions of the first three books as well, but nothing like the volume of pages I do for Feast and Dance.

So, yes, I really like Feast and Dance on rereads because I skip nearly the entirety of Quentyn's story, most of Victorian's even some of Dany and Barristan's.

[Drysh Wyvernborn]

After the RW one character dying isn't going to effect me much. I just hope its not a Stark( or Snow).

You... don't want Ramsay Snow to die? :lol: Kidding. (Obviously :ack: )

I see aFfC and aDwD as one bigger, more world building, with higher stakes a Game of Thrones. Unnecessarily long on some parts, yeah, but what is to come...

Other users have already made good lists so I'm not going to. There is much to be exited about.

[The Holy Goat]

My ratings for the books are in order from best to worst:

A Storm of Swords

A Clash of KIngs

A Game of Thrones

A Dance with Dragons

A Feast for Crows

That said, I think all of the books are amazing, and I defnitly think the Winds of Winter has the potential of matching any of the first three and surpassing the last two. I mean, just the fact that he has no plans to separate the book by geography as he did with the AFfC and ADwD is enough to make my mouth water. I mainly worry that he will be to determined to end the series in seven books, thus rushing things and leaving threads hanging. I personally think that a Second Dance of Dragons and the Others Invasion deserves more than two books, if they happen, and thus wouldn't mind if he added more books... but hey that's just me and I'm digressing.

I mean, we will see the Battle of Winterfell and the Battle of Meereen, two battles who I think as the potential to be amazing. And I'm certain we soon will have some big revelations regarding Jon and what his role in the future will be (if he's alive, I don't trust GRRM). And the Other's who hopefully will be more active. Not to mention the warfare in the south, with The Lannister-Tyrell alliance, the Ironborn and the Golden Company duking it out. And the Meereenese cnot as a whole. And Arya's future. And Bran's future. And Sansa's future. And Jamie and Brienne's reunion... there's a shitload of stuff, and these are just some of the things.

It's gonna be good.

[dalrymple123]

Dance is probably my second favorite of the series (I know, I'm weird). That said, I think we're done with denouement and are moving towards a faster paced segment which should be more similar to the pacing of prior books. Not sure if it'll be aSoS, but more will happen, I think.

That said, I don't know if people on this forum will ever like anything as well as aSoS. For most, reading that book was a clean slate. There's been over 10 years of speculation here. People have their pet theories, have talked themselves raw over interpretations and things they want to see.

When they don't, they won't like it as much. Expectations are a b*tch.

I agree with this. the Whole Stannis in the North was amazing and I loved the return of Theon. Whilst Dany's chapters were really bad, Barristans ones did make up for that, and were my favourite chapters in the series

My order of best to worst is

ASOS

ADWD

AGOT

ACOK

.

.

.

AFFC

Yup. I hated Feast

[JonisHenryTudor]

Believe what you want, but what purpose does speculating on this serve? It'll be what it is. How can we possibly predict whether this next book will be "epic" or not before it's even written? I have faith that the story will be better than just about every other fantasy book out there because Martin has consistantly met that standard. What I don't know is whether or not it'll live up to ASoS (which I'd say is the most emotionally invested I've ever been while reading a piece of literature). If the last two books are any indication though, I don't have my hopes up too high. I do have hope though.

This just doesn't wash. I think it's fair to say that AFFC (especially in comparison to the first 3) was pretty widely regarded as the weakest of the books (yes, yes, individuals may agree/disagree. I'm speaking generally here). So by your metric ADWD should have been awesome because Martin would have known that people were let down. But ADWD (IMO) didn't meet my expectations. It also assumes that Martin pays attention to these forums or other fan sites like it. If I were Martin (which I may be... no not really. But I could... nah just kidding... or am I?) I'd stay as far away from forums like this as I could. Also, your statement here supposes that Martin didn't try his hardest before, but NOW he will, and I just don't believe that. I believe Martin is trying to deliver the best story he can each time. He is just more/less successful on some books than others. I don't question his intent for 1 second. I believe he is trying his damndest to write the best story he can.

Lastly, and this may be pedantic, but even if your starting assumption is that he listens to fans/forum-posters and is inspired to great heights because he wants to "want to shock us back into awe", how can you POSSIBLY conclude NOW that "he will succeed"?

P.S. I don't mean to come off rude in my disagreement. If I do, I apologize. I just disagree with the premise of the OP.

I agree with all that you said.

1. Martin has already "confirmed" that he ignores the boards, although his wife apparently checks them occasionally for the theories.

2. Martin sees his story much differently. We see it as a series of books, but he sees it as a single story in which publishers force multiple publications.

Having said that I do expect WoW to pick up, and i think there is textual evidence to suggest this will be the case. A FfC was meant, I believe, to capture the lull between storms. Unfortunately, that lull happened to be broken into two parts, and when you combine that with the lengthy wait for the two installments, it is not a surprise that people felt let down. I suspect, however, that when the series is complete (barring Martin's health), aFfC and aDwD will be understood within a different context and perhaps appreciated for what each installment is. I doubt, but I could be wrong, that Martin is going to deliver three consecutive books that stumble along at a slow pace and finish the series with a single, gut retching installment. We shall see, but I presume Martin wants to finish the series with a blast.

[Nick_Scryer]

I also think WoW will be incredible! I mean, how can it not be? It has two battles to open the book, then the resolution to all the cliffhangers from ADWD and AFFC, followed of course by hopefully more awesomeness!

It's still so far away though and I have a fear that the ending events of WoW will be pushed back to the book after like what happened with ADWD. I hope not :(

[ugashep]

Think about how much we have to look forward to in those pages!

- Whatever Daenerys decides to do with the Dothraki

- The fate of Aegon Targaryen and his plans

- Cersei and Margery's trials

- Arya as an assassin

- Stannis v Bolton

- Jon's fate

- The Others

- The trouble in the Vale

- Tyrion and the gold cloaks

- Whatever Lady Stoneheart is up to

- Possible revelations on the Tower of Joy

And when I look at that list I honestly have no idea of what way they might end up, as the story is so brilliantly unpredictable.

I agree it should be great. However, just for fun, and to maintain healthy skepticism, here follows my most disappointing answers to your questions: 1) Dany and Jhago make amends for the former enmity between them and Jhago vows to become the leader of her "Mother's Men". Drogon is bored by this snoozefest and flies back to his lair where he remains for the rest of the book; 2) Lannister spies kill Aegon, who was legit, and place the blame on Arianne Martell, Jon Connington is overcome with grief and agrees to avenge Aegon (and Rhaegar, sob) by fighting with the Lannisters against the now hated Martells in exchange for the promise of being healed by Qyburn, married to Cersei and becoming the legitimized Lord of Griffin's Roost again; 3) The high sparrow dies in his sleep and the next high septon is a disciple of the fat one who got pulled apart in a clash of kings, he takes a bribe and declares both women innocent and restored to power. He further informs the populace that all of the prior trouble was caused by a spell cast on the lady lion of the rock by the usurper Stannis's red witch;

4) Arya, sick of what she has become begs for the "gift of death" and is given it by the kindly man who we find out was actually Benjen Stark, thus ending her story and his.

5) The bastard letter was written by Ramsay and was all true.

6) Jon is healed by Melisandre and when he awakens tells of a vision he had of a fire queen in the East, he then sets off on a mission to find Dany and conducts a travelogue to Meereen for the entire book.

7) The Others are not seen in the book, but random parties of wights begin probing the Bridge of Skulls, and undead whales are harpooned by fishermen, freaking everyone out.

8) The Lords of the Vale bend the knee to Littlefinger and Sansa becomes his protégé and willing consort, marries Harry the Heir and then kills him after a few weeks but not before becoming pregnant with Littlefinger's baby who is passed off as Harry's baby and the future Warden of the East.

9) Tyrion meets up with Victarion after Victarion kills Barristan and spends the rest of the book teaching Victarion in a karate kid mentor-pupil type relationship the game of cyvasse, telling Vic that while he is a great warrior he must learn mind games to defeat the Crow's Eye.

10) Lady Stoneheart and the brotherhood without banners are never heard from again.

11) It is revealed that Lyanna in her haste to stop Ned from being killed by Arthur Dayne tripped and fell over a wine glass slicing an artery and bled to death. Howland Reed used this distraction to knife Dayne in the back. The rest of "promise me Ned" was "promise me Ned that you will never tell my beloved Robert the humiliatingly stupid way I died." Jon's mother is actually Wylla, a milkmaid at the Dayne stronghold into whose arms Ned falls in grief over Lyanna when he takes Arthur Dayne's body home. Ashara killed herself simply over grief and to escape the torment of the horribly dull daily secret admirer letters that are delivered to Starfall by raven (written by Barristan). Wow, I'm depressed, lol.

[Aerys Blackfyre]

seen the premises, if it isn't I'm going to be very disappointed!

[Ser Luke.]

I really enjoyed both AFFC and ADWD. While not very action packed, they were both good books.

I'm expecting the Winds of Winter to be ASOS Vol. 2 though in terms of shit hitting the fan.

[binga]

I think George's legacy and long term reputation are riding on these last two books. If the ending is brilliant, most complaints about feast and dance will be forgiven and he will be remembered as one of the greats to ever do it. However if it is just two books full of travel and talking and predictable endings, watch out. Endings are difficult to do, it is always easier to raise questions than it is to answer them. I know people like some of the more "minor" characters but there will be a backlash if Winds of Winter is mostly Arianne, and Aeron, and Victarion, while Dany, Jon, Arya, and Bran are doing things on their own and have fewer chapters. It may be a bit narrow minded but I want to see the journey of the characters we fell in love with from the start.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

People think Dance with Dragons was bad?! I was not aware! I thought it was utterly amazing. Dany's chapters were great and full of excitement, Tyrion is back in action, Stannis is on the move, Jon and the Wildlings was fascinating, Jaime restores order to the Riverlands and does it with honour, Theon chapters were horribly good reading, Cersei got disgraced, the North is on the move again., Doran Martell is plotting, Aegon lands in Westeros with an army. There was so much happening and on a grand scale too.

There is no chance Winds of Winter will end up like Feast for Crows. Feast was bad because the war was winding down, it missed out much loved characters like Jon, Dany and Tyrion and there was long chapters of characters trudging across boring sparsely populated locations. Winds of Winter will look to wrap up some of the many stories, kill of some characters and the war will be in full swing again, in Westeros and at Mereen.

I agree with everything you said except for Dany's chapters being "great and full of excitement." Dany single-handedly came close to ruining DwD for me. Fortunately, other storylines such as Theon and Jon managed to redeem DwD from Dany's follies. Also, you might be combining some parts of FfC with DwD.

I think that WoW will be the climax of ASOIAF, and DoS will mostly be resolution. WoW will get off to a great start (the battles of ice and fire), and then from there, who knows? GRRM has stated that WoW will take us farther north and show us more Others than ever before. Other than that, anything could happen.

[Rashtibram]

This just doesn't wash. I think it's fair to say that AFFC (especially in comparison to the first 3) was pretty widely regarded as the weakest of the books (yes, yes, individuals may agree/disagree. I'm speaking generally here). So by your metric ADWD should have been awesome because Martin would have known that people were let down. But ADWD (IMO) didn't meet my expectations.

GRRM believed ADWD was going to be awesome. When he was describing it before it came out, he said, "think 'A Storm of Swords.'" And I think that it would have been amazing if the hundred or so pages which were supposed to be in book 5 were kept in it. The reason most people didn't like it was because most story arcs ended with utter cliffhangers, with little to no resolution; this would not have been the case if the length had not exceeded the bounds of what GRRM anticipated.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

GRRM believed ADWD was going to be awesome. When he was describing it before it came out, he said, "think 'A Storm of Swords.'" And I think that it would have been amazing if the hundred or so pages which were supposed to be in book 5 were kept in it. The reason most people didn't like it was because most story arcs ended with utter cliffhangers, with little to no resolution; this would not have been the case if the length had not exceeded the bounds of what GRRM anticipated.

That is a good point. The cliffhangers at the end of DwD were frustrating, but if GRRM had included the battles of ice and fire (as he originally intended), the entire character of the book would have changed.

[Rashtibram]

That is a good point. The cliffhangers at the end of DwD were frustrating, but if GRRM had included the battles of ice and fire (as he originally intended), the entire character of the book would have changed.

Yes... imagine if the Battle of the Blackwater had been suddenly moved at the last minute to ASOS. People would have hated book 2 and likely stopped reading the series. Be thankful ASOS came out to keep us hanging on before the two "middle act" books kept us waiting for about 10 years.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Yes... imagine if the Battle of the Blackwater had been suddenly moved at the last minute to ASOS. People would have hated book 2 and likely stopped reading the series. Be thankful ASOS came out to keep us hanging on before the two "middle act" books kept us waiting for about 10 years.

That should not be a problem with TWOW. We have wars and battles aplenty to look forward to. Unnecessary POV's will die, others will converge and a clear direction will take shape.

I think TWOW will fulfill the promise of the last two books combined. We will be left lusting for the final book, but with a good taste in our mouths.

[Anarchosaurus Rex]

That should not be a problem with TWOW. We have wars and battles aplenty to look forward to. Unnecessary POV's will die, others will converge and a clear direction will take shape.

Spoken coldly and callously, like a true GRRM fan. I shudder to think at the reckoning of POVs dying because they are redundant: "Bye bye, Asha; we only need Theon, now!"

[Rashtibram]

That should not be a problem with TWOW. We have wars and battles aplenty to look forward to. Unnecessary POV's will die, others will converge and a clear direction will take shape.

I think TWOW will fulfill the promise of the last two books combined. We will be left lusting for the final book, but with a good taste in our mouths.

I completely agree. With the first three books comprising the War of Five Kings and the first act of the series, the fourth and fifth expertly capturing the lull in the war as the different sides of Westeros cooled down following the madness of ASOS, comprising the middle act of the series, I expect in the last two books things will really get down to business.