Norse Mythology-Ragnarök and the possible ASOIAF connection

[LaroC]

agree in gender number and degree!

[Myles]

George created a whole new world. That's said-

He based his tale, loosely, on the Wars of the Roses, the bloody dynastic struggles in medieval England.

He also said he based the wall on the Hadrian's Wall, and he based the 'Red Wedding' on the the 'Black Dinner' and 'Glencoe Massacre'.

All taken from history, so why not base the fantasy elements on mythology?

Where do you think long winters, dragons, krakens, warging and magical trees came from?

They are all creatures and concepts from the Norse mythology.

George was admiring the works of J. R. R. Tolkien in his childhood, so this should not come as a surprise.

Tolkien's world of Elves and Dwarves are by and large based on Norse and related Germanic mythologies, and possibly Celtic Mythology.

The connection is not limited to creatures, as this entire world is fantasy.

He is using names, events, places and even some of the characters story is base on the story of the gods in Norse mythology (George is writing on the "human heart in conflict", but the gods act like humans in Norse mythology).

There are even quotes that might ring a bell, like Fáfnir (a rich dwarf who killed his father) warning Siguard not to take his treasure as it will fate him to death, and Sigaurd replies that "all men must one day die".

Even the story name and the elements of fire and ice are strong in Norse mythology. The Norse creation myth tells how everything came into existence in the gap between fire and ice.

George always said he knew the framework to the story from the start,

so it will not be a surprise if even that framework itself is based on the Norse mythology.

The same events leading to Ragnarök in the Norse mythology are appearing one by one from AGoT all the way through ADwD and even the sample chapters of WoW.

First sign of Ragnarök is three winters without a summer. Prior to these winters, three earlier winters will have occurred, marked with great battles throughout the world.

During this time, greed will cause brothers to kill brothers, and fathers and sons will suffer from the collapse of kinship bonds.

Then binding of the wolf Fenrir by the gods (Bran's paralyzation?), causing chain of events leading to Týr (the invincible warrior) losing his right hand (Jaime, of course, is not named Tyr, but someone noticed his brother has 'Tyr' in his name...).

Odin amassing his armies. He does this by snatching up the souls of the bravest and strongest men who die during battle. So they will fight for him in battle of Ragnarok.

The re-appearing of krakens and more.

It is also clear why George is not speaking about this connection, because it says so much about the future events.

Jörmungandr, the last dragon, who started little and grew larger and larger, circling the world, finally reached land.

Surtr advances from the south, surrounded by flames and his sword brighter than the sun.

The arrival of the "Mighty One".

The bridge between the worlds breaks by blowing a horn.

We can even learn from the Norse mythology who will finally sit on the iron throne...

[Tyrion_the_Oneironaut]

I've been working on this theory for quite some time (ever since I posted the original Jaime & Bran theory last year).

I've come a long way on it, and have made some surprising connections that I'll be posting soon.

Here's the basic gist of it (I go on to explain it all in extensive detail, so I'll probably start my own thread for it when I do eventually post it).

Aesir

Odin - Aerys

Thor - Robert Baratheon

Tyr - Jaime Lannister

Freyr - Walder Frey

Heimdallr - Samwell Tarly

Jotunn

Loki - Bloodraven

Fenrir - Bran

Jormundgandr - Dany

Hel - Melisandre

Surtr - Jon Snow

Hrym - Victarion Greyjoy

Dwarves

Fafnir - Tyrion

Hreidmar - Tywin

I would speculate that

Odin = Bran

Mimir/Kvasir= Jojen

Nidhogg = Bloodraven

Heimdall = Coldhands

Loki = both Littlefinger and Varys

Frigg/Nanna = Catelyn

Freyja/Borghild = Val

Ullr = Stannis/Davos

Baldr = Robb/Ned

Vidar = Arya

Ran = Drowned God

Freyr = Mance

Fenrir = Shaggydog

Rindr = Sansa(which would mean a rape scene is coming up)

Brunhilde = Lyanna Stark

Sigurd = Rhaegar

Gudrun = Cersei

Tyr/Gunnar = Jaime

Holler = Ramsay

Honir = Doran

Urd, Skuld, Velandi = the 3 woods witches Jenny, Ghost of H.H & Mother Mole

Regin - Tyrion(who, by the way, kills a dragon. Ruh roh)

[Crono.gr]

So who will sit in the Iron Throne in the end?

[Myles]

According to Norse mythology- Thor's sons (i.e. Robert's sons).

Hodur will also survive the end of the world- Hodur is blind and he is of sufficient strength, but unable to harm anyone without assistance.

[The Human Abstract]

I find this to be a very interesting thread and would love for people to elaborate on these connections and also the circumstances where the story deviates from Norse mythology. I had never heard this until this forum.

Or perhaps a link where this theory is detailed even more specifically?

[Theli]

"Using elements from Ragnarok" does not mean that GRRM is using it as an exact template or that it is a retelling of that myth... the basic idea of a final battle is similar (and it ain't exclusive of Norse Mythology, anyways), but we still have to wait and see how it plays out.

:stillsick:

[TheHalfman]

I did this quick so I probably did a pretty bad job. However I am sure there are connections to be found.

Here is someone who goes more in depth. Be warned, if correct, he presents a TON of spoilers.

I stumbled upon this a few days back. Fantastic stuff, whether it ends up being true or not. Actually the owner of the blog has already posted in this thread I believe.

http://gameofthrones...f-ice-fire.html

[Chocolate_dream]

Here is someone who goes more in depth. Be warned, if correct, he presents a TON of spoilers.

I stumbled upon this a few days back. Fantastic stuff, whether it ends up being true or not. Actually the owner of the blog has already posted in this thread I believe.

http://gameofthrones...f-ice-fire.html

Wow that actually really pulls everything together in an epic way. I kinda had a feeling it would be cyclical, the Other's and the war with humans.

[The Human Abstract]

I very much hope it is not that much of a 1-1 conversion of the mythology because now I know what happens, if it is.

[Macho Hand of the King]

Here is someone who goes more in depth. Be warned, if correct, he presents a TON of spoilers.

I stumbled upon this a few days back. Fantastic stuff, whether it ends up being true or not. Actually the owner of the blog has already posted in this thread I believe.

http://gameofthrones...f-ice-fire.html

I feel Surtr more represents Stannis and Jon Snow seems to fit Sigurd. It's clearly not one for one so Jon and Stannis could be representations of both. The part about Sigurd's parentage really seemed to work for what we know/suspect about Jon Snow.

[The Human Abstract]

_{Been reading a bit more on Ragnarok today, and I'm not convinced it's really a direct conversion of the story yet. But is there any place where the story of Ragnorak is summarized very neatly? I have to read bits and pieces from various places.}

[Macho Hand of the King]

This link is fairly condensed. It doesn't paint a clear picture of who "wins" (sounds like nobody, really), but I thought I would share at least.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/r/ragnarok.html

[Chocolate_dream]

"this is incorrect thinking. Think about Bloodraven==Loki. I do not think so. Think of him as Odin. You can't use one trait to assume something. And little finger essentially is Loki. Look more deeply into it.

I don't think enough is known about BR to conclude that. After all, his motives are still pretty hidden. LF just seems like a lost soul to me. I doubt he really knows what he's doing.

[Ghost's Shadow]

I doubt GRRM is going to copy an entire story into his books. That would be kinda lazy writing? He's better than that, or he's supposed to be.

[The Human Abstract]

After spending about a day reading through stories of Ragnorak I'm out on the theory that this is a literal retelling of that apocalyptic story in a different way. It just already doesn't match in so many places. Going both ways.

I think I'll return to the notion that it is merely influenced by Norse mythology.

[MadFish]

I'm not very familiar with Norse mythology, but judging from this post and some others I have searched and found, it definitely seems like GRRM has been influenced heavily by Norse mythology. But I doubt just because some of the characters are based off Norse gods that GRRM would copy the entire Ragnarok story to end ASOIAF. Way too cheap and easy and I definitely expect more from George.

[Macho Hand of the King]

I definitely feel it is more of an "influenced by/draws elements from" kind of thing. I mean, Loki and Fenrir are pretty much the bad guys in Ragnarok and I don't buy Bran as a bad guy. He clearly used concepts from the mythos, though. It makes for good discussion and brain teasing. :)

[qixoticneurotic]

I think hel is shireen with the half dead face. it also ties into the greek interpretation http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2013/04/greek-myth-in-game-of-thrones-part-one-robert-baratheon-and-cersei-lannister-as-zeus-and-hera.html stannis being hades.

[Tyrion_the_Oneironaut]

People associate Sam with Heimdall because of the broken horn he carries but I'm not so sure it's not Coldhands. It would be an interesting revelation indeed if Coldhands/Bloodraven have the Horn of Joramun.

According to the myth, the horn Gjallar lies buried under the world tree Yggdrasil. I've already speculated that Nidhogg, who sits at the roots of Yggdrasil is Bloodraven.

Edit: Heimdall also guards Bifrost, which is the bridge between realms. A common assumption would be that Bifrost is the Wall, but I rather think the Black Gate is actually inspired by the Bifrost bridge.