[TWOW Spoilers] Miscon reading : two Winds of Winter chapters

[Melifeather]

Skunned? What the heck? I have never even heard of that word before in my life. Who would use a word like that?

It's not a real word. lol

Skin, skinned, skun and skunned...I guess the people that say it think its the past tense version! lol Minnesota rednecks, I guess!

[Dragonguard]

No, another that fits is "unMelisandre," or even "unMoqorro." There is plenty of evidence that one or both of those two are undead. Or it could be someone we haven't figured out.

There is zero evidence that Brienne is undead. Literally zero. It's a guess, and I won't say it's impossible, but you should call a spade a spade.

UnVictarion? the priest says he is a deadman already when he 'heals' his arm - the rhllor undead ceremony? also the vision of dany's 'a corpse with grey lips smiling sadly standing at the prow of a ship' his goal is to find dany - may be wrong here but it fits...

and as someone else said ealier robert strong or as he is affectionately known UnGregor!

Edited November 8, 2012 by Dragonguard

[Dragonguard]

That's a big "if", since Bran does not recognize him. But suppose he is Benjen. What mission that he had in life is he now pursuing after death?

learning more about/stopping the others? would explain why he didnt return at the appointed time...

[FacelessManOf TheShire]

Skunned? What the heck? I have never even heard of that word before in my life. Who would use a word like that?

No no no... 'skun' as in 'Hey! Skin up! No, I've already skun up a splif' is perfectly acceptable parlance :drunk:

[Melifeather]

No no no... 'skun' as in 'Hey! Skin up! No, I've already skun up a splif' is perfectly acceptable parlance :drunk:

WHAT the heck??? LOL

[grillmeister]

In AFFC/ADWD, Sam is set to learn more about The Others, hopefully more of their weaknesses and how they arise. When sent to Oldtown, he had not found anything, so the only information The Watch has is the vulneability against obsidian/dragonglass.

Now, Bran is now learning to see the past. I believe he sooner or later will learn what Sam was trying to, by observing the long gone past. If he then manage to pass this knowledge to The Watch and contribute to save the realm, his story can be concluded by achieving something big.

In addition, suppose Coldhands is unBenjen.

1) Bran didn't reckognize him since he covered his face (and Bran notized that no frost smoke passed through).

2) As stated earlier, the undead are more focused on their mission or task. Benjen has swore to be the shield that protect the realms of men. Moreover, when he disappeared, he was sent to learn more about what was happening north of The Wall (although if I remember correctly it was to focus on The Wildlings).

If he somehow knew what Bran can achieve, he will keep his wows by aiding Bran, and thus have ha mission focus.

I realize it is a longshot and give birth to new speculations, like how could he know about Bran's abilities. (Although, as pointed out, warging seem to run in the Stark blood).

[Dragonguard]

What's with the Mel hating? I wish there were an "don't like" button.

I dont like her because she doesnt know how to say "I dont know" - even if she is guessing. One case in point: Arya vs Alys. Thoros can say he doesnt know. So far Moqorro hasnt been uncertain of anything so dont know about him. I dont like anyone in real life who causes problems by claiming certainty when they dont have it - who cross their fingers and hope their guess is right.

There's also the fact that she murdered at least 2 people with shadowbabies (when Stannis had offered Renly a night to 'strike his banners' Mel didnt even wait for the deadline) and was willing to murder innocent children to use magic that would supposedly 'wake the dragon' ... or is that just me?

[Dragonguard]

As for Lightbringer and Nissa Nissa...the sword is already forged. Why would it need to be plunged into anyone's heart a second time?

While i hope that it wont need to be run through the heart of any character i like im not sure why everyone seems to think the sword is already forged and therefore just lying areound waiting to be used, while that is indeed possible if it is Ice, Longclaw or Dawn etc the mention is 'and he will draw a sword from the fire and that sword will be Lightbringer and he will be AA come again' isnt it? now to me this could mean that AA mark 2 will turn a new sword into LightBringer mark 2 by drawing it from a fire though not necessarily by killing anyone - if what is necessary is heartsblood there are other ways than killing a loved one im sure... thoughts?

[Dragonguard]

I don't think he is "definitely" anything, let alone a "legitimate human being" after Qyburn's work in the black cells. Heck, he may not even have a head inside that helmet!

I think that was sarcasm?

[Melifeather]

While i hope that it wont need to be run through the heart of any character i like im not sure why everyone seems to think the sword is already forged and therefore just lying areound waiting to be used, while that is indeed possible if it is Ice, Longclaw or Dawn etc the mention is 'and he will draw a sword from the fire and that sword will be Lightbringer and he will be AA come again' isnt it? now to me this could mean that AA mark 2 will turn a new sword into LightBringer mark 2 by drawing it from a fire though not necessarily by killing anyone - if what is necessary is heartsblood there are other ways than killing a loved one im sure... thoughts?

What a difference a few months make, plus being influenced by the Heresy thread, my earlier posts that you've linked from July and August no longer reflect my feelings towards Melisandre and Lightbringer.

[Dragonguard]

What a difference a few months make, plus being influenced by the Heresy thread, my earlier posts that you've linked from July and August no longer reflect my feelings towards Melisandre and Lightbringer.

Hey fair do's

i didnt know :unsure: i only found this thread a couple of nights back, i can only comment on things already on the board though lol - just out of curiosity whats your new theory? (if you wanna share obvs) :lol:

[aryagonnakill]

While i hope that it wont need to be run through the heart of any character i like im not sure why everyone seems to think the sword is already forged and therefore just lying areound waiting to be used, while that is indeed possible if it is Ice, Longclaw or Dawn etc the mention is 'and he will draw a sword from the fire and that sword will be Lightbringer and he will be AA come again' isnt it? now to me this could mean that AA mark 2 will turn a new sword into LightBringer mark 2 by drawing it from a fire though not necessarily by killing anyone - if what is necessary is heartsblood there are other ways than killing a loved one im sure... thoughts?

An entirely new sword I haven't heard that yet, I kind of like it. That would almost point me to Gendry, but in any case about the other thing you said about drawing the sword from the fire and not a heart. I've seen a lot of posts regarding Jon waking up while being burnt at the wall. I'm not sure what i believe will happen with Jon but it is a pretty badass vision of Jon hoping out of a fire then turning around and pulling a flaming longclaw out.

[Melifeather]

Hey fair do's

i didnt know :unsure: i only found this thread a couple of nights back, i can only comment on things already on the board though lol - just out of curiosity whats your new theory? (if you wanna share obvs) :lol:

Um...two very influential threads: Heresy (we're already on thread #28) and Howl at the Moon.

I now am pursuing evidence for two different theories regarding Lightbringer, so I haven't settled on just one. One is that Daenerys dragons are Lightbringer, and the other is that Arya will be Lightbringer.

As for Melisandre...she obviously is a priestess of R'hllor, though not as powerful as I once thought. She does have some abilities, but they're mainly one of mind control over others. She has her own agenda, which I haven't figured out what exactly that is. She could be a double-agent, like a spy, only using Stannis like Moqorro is currently using Victarion. I'm leaning towards her as being against Jon, at the moment, and that she has only been appearing as helping him in order to gain his trust so that she can destroy him. If that is true, then she's behind the pink letter and she and Mance are in cahoots. I think Mance is a follower of R'hllor also after his conversion by the wood's witch.

[Dragonguard]

An entirely new sword I haven't heard that yet, I kind of like it. That would almost point me to Gendry, but in any case about the other thing you said about drawing the sword from the fire and not a heart. I've seen a lot of posts regarding Jon waking up while being burnt at the wall. I'm not sure what i believe will happen with Jon but it is a pretty badass vision of Jon hoping out of a fire then turning around and pulling a flaming longclaw out.

thanks :cheers:

and as for the bit about Gendry its possible - people have named so many different characters as a possible AA that its hard to pick lol i've now heard Stannis, Jon, Dany, Jaime, Brienne, Gendry... and thats just trying to remember off the top of my head without finding the appropriate threads...

(ps are the red priests even sure there will BE one in westeros or are they mixing AA up with the Last Hero - i never heard AA until Mel none of the characters had either lol)

[Melifeather]

thanks :cheers:

and as for the bit about Gendry its possible - people have named so many different characters as a possible AA that its hard to pick lol i've now heard Stannis, Jon, Dany, Jaime, Brienne, Gendry... and thats just trying to remember off the top of my head without finding the appropriate threads...

(ps are the red priests even sure there will BE one in westeros or are they mixing AA up with the Last Hero - i never heard AA until Mel none of the characters had either lol)

People on this forum mix up the Last Hero and Azor Ahai a lot, but they are not the same person. We don't know what happens to the Last Hero, because his story is left unfinished. All we know is that his story begins during the Long Night. He goes in search of the Children of the Forest with his dog, a sword and 12 friends. All his friends end up dying one by one, and even his dog dies, and his sword breaks from the cold. How could this be the same person as Azor Ahai if his sword breaks? He finally finds the Children and they provide him with Guest Rights. But the story ends here.

Meanwhile, Azor Ahai has the flaming sword Lightbringer and he is successful in defeating the Others, but he is an Eastern legend. I have heard some posters venture that the story of the Last Hero was brought to the East and then embellished until he became Azor Ahai, but I haven't read any textural evidence that supports that.

[aryagonnakill]

People on this forum mix up the Last Hero and Azor Ahai a lot, but they are not the same person. We don't know what happens to the Last Hero, because his story is left unfinished. All we know is that his story begins during the Long Night. He goes in search of the Children of the Forest with his dog, a sword and 12 friends. All his friends end up dying one by one, and even his dog dies, and his sword breaks from the cold. How could this be the same person as Azor Ahai if his sword breaks? He finally finds the Children and they provide him with Guest Rights. But the story ends here.

Meanwhile, Azor Ahai has the flaming sword Lightbringer and he is successful in defeating the Others, but he is an Eastern legend. I have heard some posters venture that the story of the Last Hero was brought to the East and then embellished until he became Azor Ahai, but I haven't read any textural evidence that supports that.

I now am pursuing evidence for two different theories regarding Lightbringer, so I haven't settled on just one. One is that Daenerys dragons are Lightbringer, and the other is that Arya will be Lightbringer.

I've always thought AAR was Dany and that Drogon was Lightbringer, i've never heard or thought of Arya but obviously i love her so I'm interested. Your summary of the Last Hero makes Bran seem like an obvious candidate, if all of these heros are to be reborn which is not certain to my knowledge. Hodor brought the sword from Winterfell and obviously Bran has Summer. It would suck if Hodor Bran and Meera all died tho.

[Melifeather]

I've always thought AAR was Dany and that Drogon was Lightbringer, i've never heard or thought of Arya but obviously i love her so I'm interested. Your summary of the Last Hero makes Bran seem like an obvious candidate, if all of these heros are to be reborn which is not certain to my knowledge. Hodor brought the sword from Winterfell and obviously Bran has Summer. It would suck if Hodor Bran and Meera all died tho.

Bran being with the Children does parallel the Last Hero being with the Children, and you've sparked an idea within me! That's probably how the position currently being held by Bloodraven got started, because I don't think he was the first greenseer in a tree.

The reason why Arya could be lightbringer ties into where she is now. You could look at this story as being inspired partly on the astrological ages. It would be difficult for me to explain in just a few sentences, so I'll provide a link to a post I made in the Heresy thread explaining Ages: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/76591-heresy-28/page__st__380#entry3821721

Arya is the representative of the Age of Aquarius, which is supposed to bring enlightenment to mankind. Everything about her character has been linked to water and the moon.

[aryagonnakill]

Bran being with the Children does parallel the Last Hero being with the Children, and you've sparked an idea within me! That's probably how the position currently being held by Bloodraven got started, because I don't think he was the first greenseer in a tree.

The reason why Arya could be lightbringer ties into where she is now. You could look at this story as being inspired partly on the astrological ages. It would be difficult for me to explain in just a few sentences, so I'll provide a link to a post I made in the Heresy thread explaining Ages: http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry3821721

Arya is the representative of the Age of Aquarius, which is supposed to bring enlightenment to mankind. Everything about her character has been linked to water and the moon.

I read your heresy thread, it was very interesting. I also happen to be intrigued outside of the book because I like to examine religion from a practical standpoint and I just yesterday had an argument with someone about why the bible includes that gay people are an "abomination". But thats neither here nor there. Were you suggesting that the first last hero selected or in some way manipulated his replacement into coming to him? And at some point a greenseer did to bloodraven what he did to bran? That actually makes complete sense to me. I also wanted to pose to you something contradictory to your heresy thread so I'm gonna quote you on that thread so I don't go off topic here.

[Melifeather]

I read your heresy thread, it was very interesting. I also happen to be intrigued outside of the book because I like to examine religion from a practical standpoint and I just yesterday had an argument with someone about why the bible includes that gay people are an "abomination". But thats neither here nor there. Were you suggesting that the first last hero selected or in some way manipulated his replacement into coming to him? And at some point a greenseer did to bloodraven what he did to bran? That actually makes complete sense to me. I also wanted to pose to you something contradictory to your heresy thread so I'm gonna quote you on that thread so I don't go off topic here.

Yes. On the Heresy thread, Black Crow disagrees with me that Bloodraven was "lured". He thinks he became the "man in the tree" out of a sense of duty, but I think he was lured or promised something like Bran was promised to fly.

[Alpehue]

But regardless, GRRM has made comments in interviews about characters (plural) who come back from death, BESIDES BERIC, who, like Beric, display hints of having lost a large part of their humanity, and replacing it with a narrow focus on some mission they had in life which keeps them going. So he seems to claim we have seen at least 3 such characters (Beric, plus at least 2 more). The only 3 that fit this bill are UnBeric, UnCat, and UnBrienne.

What about UnBeric, UnCat and UnColdhands?