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Hmadkour

[TWOW Spoilers] Miscon reading : two Winds of Winter chapters

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I had guessed, "Oathkeeper", but "sword" is good! I am waiting with baited breath as to whether or not this will mean the death of Jaime. There has been speculation that Jaime is actually Cersei's valonqar, and maybe Lady Stoneheart will allow him to go free if he promises to kill her. If this is the death of Jaime, then, in my opinion, Arya will be the valonqar as she is the younger sister of Sansa.

Arya = Cersei's valonqar would be sweet sweet justice.

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My theory is that jaime will be killed but thoros of myr in defiance to lady stoneheart will bring him back to life. and when lady stoneheart finds out she will kill/imprison thoros (most likely kill him considering how much catalyn has changed after the red wedding)

Edited by the rightful king

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Perhaps word of Ramsay's marriage to "Arya" will have reached the Brotherhood before Brienne returns with Jamie in tow. That would necessitate a change in plans for Lady Stoneheart possibly.

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Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I read through 12 pages before I gave up.

For those who mentioned about Gendry and forging/reforging a Valyrian blade, wasn't he only an Apprentice Smith when he was forced to flee KL? I know he was apprenticed to a very good armourer, but still, I can't see him teaching an apprentice how to work with VS...

On the topic of Brienne and Jamie, I think its almost certain (I refuse to say certain when talking about GRRM) that they will return to Stoneheart, but following that I am not sure. Some ideas I like are: Brienne dying so Jamie can live, a trial by battle that never starts due to Lannister men arriving having followed Brienne and Jamie, a "trial" by Stoneheart, during which the others of the BwB convince Stoneheart that she must choose between vengeance against the Freys and vengeance for Bran by killing Jamie. Another possibility could be Jamie pulling another Riverrun dungeons and just admitting everything he has ever done, followed by....something, I'm not sure.

Also, I do very much love the character of Podrick Payne. Not sure what will happen with him, maybe he can marry Sansa, who knows?

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I do not much care what happens to Jaime or Brienne but what about Podrick and Ser Hyle. They are both innocents and do not deserve to die.

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I rather suspect that Jaime may be the third head of the dragon.

I rather think the idea that he and Cersai were conceived by Aerys on the wedding night makes a lot of sense.

There was a very small line somewhere where someone in a crowd calls out to Jaime "kinslayer" and he replies - "No Kingslayer" that I think foretold this.

He and Tyrion are therefore equals in having killed their fathers.

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Brienne becomes an oathbreaker against Catelyn, realizing that Stoneheart is an insane zombie lost to the real world, she'll kill Stoneheart and let Jaime go free.

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GRRM read another TWoW Tyrion chapter at Worldcon yesterday (LoneStarCon 3). I've submitted a thread with my notes. As soon as it's up, I'll post my better-written summary of the chapter along with more information he gave.

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Thanks a lot !

Maybe you can announce it here too :

There was quite a number of people waiting there last night ^^

Edited by Pliskin

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Thanks a lot !

Maybe you can announce it here too : http://asoiaf.wester...y/page__st__320

There was quite a number of people waiting there last night ^^

Thanks for that link. It looks like they decided it was the old Tyrion chapter, the one reported on in this thread. It wasn't. I told them that and that my report will be up when moderators let it through here. I gave them my recount of other news and things he said there.

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Hmm...crackpot theory!

Jaime bumped into Fake Arya when he arrived back at King's Landing. He knows where she's going and he warned Brienne so she wouldn't go after her. The original BWB have familiarity with Arya, especially Gendry. Cat's end-all-be-all berserk button was her kids. Stoneheart knows about the Bolton betrayal. Mayhaps Jaime convinces them Arya's at Winterfell, the wife of the Bastard of Bolton ("we've been trying to get north but I had to end the Riverrun siege without harming a Tully!). Stoneheart hacks and sputters something that means "saddle up" to the BWB. Jaime and Brienne are still her prisoners but now they have a trip north to make a break for it.

Or Ilyn Payne just dives in and saves the day.

Edited by PhoenixFlame

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Brienne becomes an oathbreaker against Catelyn, realizing that Stoneheart is an insane zombie lost to the real world, she'll kill Stoneheart and let Jaime go free.
This seems like a real possibility. Brienne's path would then parallel Jamie's--betraying the knightly code by killing the one she has sworn herself to. I really hope that she doesn't sacrifice herself to save Jamie, but GRRM has emphasized Jamie's lack of sword skills, so that may well be the way it goes. However, if there is some sort of trial by combat, and Jamie is the winner, why has he been missing so long? No one has seen him for weeks.

I really like Brienne and Jamie's relationship, but I fear that she is a goner in the next book.

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This seems like a real possibility. Brienne's path would then parallel Jamie's--betraying the knightly code by killing the one she has sworn herself to. I really hope that she doesn't sacrifice herself to save Jamie, but GRRM has emphasized Jamie's lack of sword skills, so that may well be the way it goes. However, if there is some sort of trial by combat, and Jamie is the winner, why has he been missing so long? No one has seen him for weeks.

I really like Brienne and Jamie's relationship, but I fear that she is a goner in the next book.

I have been nursing a crackpot theory (which may already be old news here - so much is), that Brienne's choice is going to be the central choice of the books: Fighting for the honorable dead & magical (as embodied by Catelyn, but representing COTF/Others) or fighting for the living who are capable of good, but have done so much evil.

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It would be a terrible waste to kill Jaime now that his story is getting so interesting, I really don't think GRRM would do it (and will be terribly disapointed if he does).

But I think it's unlikely that Brienne would break her oath and kill or betray Lady Stoneheart. I think it would be easier for Ned Stark to break an oath than Brienne, she's the most stubborn character in all books; is also unlikely Jaime killing Brienne, Thoros and the rest of the Brotherhood since he can't fight anymore. Neither I think Lady Stoneheart would get soft and trust Jaime to help her daughters or send him to kill Cersei, I think she must die a thousand times before trusting a Lannister (especially Jaime).

Even though I admit that Brienne could break her oath, I don't rely on that. I think it would be an "easy way out" to spare Jaime. In the end I can't see and ending to this story than Jaime being executed, sadly... =/

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Hmm...crackpot theory!

Jaime bumped into Fake Arya when he arrived back at King's Landing. He knows where she's going and he warned Brienne so she wouldn't go after her. The original BWB have familiarity with Arya, especially Gendry. Cat's end-all-be-all berserk button was her kids. Stoneheart knows about the Bolton betrayal. Mayhaps Jaime convinces them Arya's at Winterfell, the wife of the Bastard of Bolton ("we've been trying to get north but I had to end the Riverrun siege without harming a Tully!). Stoneheart hacks and sputters something that means "saddle up" to the BWB. Jaime and Brienne are still her prisoners but now they have a trip north to make a break for it.

Or Ilyn Payne just dives in and saves the day.

Remembered to say "Mayhaps", heh! :lol:

I personally think the BwB will already know about (f)Arya, as they have had Tom at River-run long enough to hear of it. I am hoping that Stoneheart will spare Jamie though, at least immediately. Catelyn was one of my favourite characters so I retain some hope for a LS redemption

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I'm personally hoping Brienne kills Stoneheart so her life can parallel that of Jaime's, I am sure Jaime had no intention of killers Aerys when he swore his oath as Brienne didn't but she will realize there are more important things. I hope at least.


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I'm personally hoping Brienne kills Stoneheart so her life can parallel that of Jaime's, I am sure Jaime had no intention of killers Aerys when he swore his oath as Brienne didn't but she will realize there are more important things.  I hope at least.

Of course he had no intention of killing the man he was sworn to defend at all costs, but the white bull told him that it's his job to protect Aerys, not to judge him. Brienne isnt an oathbreaker in that mold. Jaime may have done the moral thing, but a key theme of the series is duty vs. righteousness, and the world falls apart without duty, it can live without the latter.

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When I think of Jamie and all the time that he has spent with Ilyn Pane practicing with his left hand I can't help of thinking of that line about Qhorin Halfhand. Something about how he became even a better fighter after he lost his right hand. It makes me think that Jamie will not die in the next book but will be around to the end. I don't know if anyone has said this but my crackpot idea is that somehow Jamie is mortally wounded in a trial by combat because he will not fight against Brienne, Lady Stonehart comes to realize he and Brienne are the best hope to save her daughters. As he is dying Lady Stonehart tells him that she will revive him if he goes with Brienne on her quest to save her daughters. Jamie agrees and dies. Lady Stonehart breaths the fire of life into him as Bedric did to her. She dies. Jamie lives and continues his quest with Brienne. The blade Oathkeeper will then have made Jamie keep his Oath.


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