Was Tyrion a good hand?

[Batman]

He saved Kings Landing and did almost everything he could to set the city right

.

On the other hand he let Varys, Baelish and Pycelle live. He had Tywins authority to kill them all as they were all traitors who denied his authority. In the end it cost him and the realm dearly.

The Hands job is to run the kingdoms and help protect the realm. Now Baelish has the Riverlands, the Vale and probably the North in his pocket for whatever end his game requires and Varys is playing Aegon and Dany for all he can.

[LordBloodraven]

Tyrion was a good Hand. His handship was during a time of war and House Lannister had enemies at all sides. Plus, he had to juggle with his sister's caprices and the King's madness. He had to use people as best he could and that he did. Baelish secured the Tyrell support and he promised him Harrenhal for it. Varys was a staunch ally of him though he didn't control him, and it's impossible to control everything even if you are Hand. He secured the Martell alliance with Myrcella and was the main participant to the Blackwater victory. He might be exiled but House Lannister still rules in KL.

[David Selig]

Tyrion didn't save King's Landing. He played an important part in defeating Stannis's army, sure, but many others did too. And it's not like Stannis intended to destroy the city anyway, so nobody really saved it.

did almost everything he could to set the city right

You mean like allowing his clansmen to murder people and get away unpunished?

I think his main flaw as hand was that he antagonised Cersei too much, often for no reason besides the fact that he hated her. The Hand is supposed to work for the regent, not undermine her at every turn.

[Jolene Brown]

I think his mnin flaw as hand was that he antagonised Cersei too much, often for no reason besides the fact that he hated her. The Hand is supposed to work for the regent, not undermine her at every turn.

Seriously. No wonder she is so paranoid. I thought a lot of his moves against Cercei is ACOK were ridiculous, especially the bs with Tommen. And guess what, she was right to be worried about sending Myrcella to Dorne... look how THAT turned out.

[Only Fire and Blood?]

He was a very good hand in my opinion. Most people wouldn't have a chance in that sort of environment (enemy army marching on the city, famine, angry peasants, corrupt small council and a mad sadistc king). To be able to make some improvements in that situation takes one heck of an acheivement.

[LordBloodraven]

Tyrion didn't save King's Landing. He played an important part in defeating Stannis's army, sure, but many others did too. And it's not like Stannis intended to destroy the city anyway, so nobody really saved it.

You mean like allowing his clansmen to murder people and get away unpunished?

I think his main flaw as hand was that he antagonised Cersei too much, often for no reason besides the fact that he hated her. The Hand is supposed to work for the regent, not undermine her at every turn.

Not wanting it to turn into Cersei/Tyrion bickering but admit that Cersei hated Tyrion and didn't take him seriously. Preventive measures are needed when somebody wants to fuck you up

[LuisDantas]

Tyrion was superb. The circunstances he had to face were incredibly adverse, yet he saved King's Landing from both Stannis and his sister and nephew.

He did not quite start a new golden era in Westeros, but that is mostly because he was not allowed to. He _had_ to work either with or against his own House, after all.

[Batman]

You mean like allowing his clansmen to murder people and get away unpunished?

I think his main flaw as hand was that he antagonised Cersei too much, often for no reason besides the fact that he hated her. The Hand is supposed to work for the regent, not undermine her at every turn.

Rulers allow people to be murdered all the time

You cannot be arguing that Tyrion should have worked for Cersei are you? Things went so well once Cersei had complete power right? Wait no she is in a dungeon, she royally pissed off the Tyrells, she allowed the faith to re-arm (nothing quite as danderous as relegious fanatics with weapons and she drove the most powerful financial institution in the world to Stannis' cause. Way to go, Cersei

[Batman]

Tyrion was superb. The circunstances he had to face were incredibly adverse, yet he saved King's Landing from both Stannis and his sister and nephew.

He did not quite start a new golden era in Westeros, but that is mostly because he was not allowed to. He _had_ to work either with or against his own House, after all.

Shouldnt he have killed Baelish, Varys and Pycelle while he had the chance? They all had uses, particuarly Baelish and Varys but come on. Surely there was somone else who could have negotiating with the Tyrells. Varys is harder to replace but still. He said himself he should have

[Jolene Brown]

Cercei does dumb stuff, yes, but he had no reason to go out of his way to antagonize her. There were better ways to handle the situation. He didn't block dumb moves she was making; he took steps that had no real purpose/benefit other than to antagonize her. Perhaps that is part of why she does such ridiculous stuff later once she actually does get power. Because he has contributed to her feeling that she can't trust anyone. I give Tyrion a lot of credit for the chain and his plan with the wildfire, and I was frustrated he didn't get more credit, but the way he interacted with Cercei was a real misstep on his part. The Lannisters aren't beloved among their allies the way the Starks seem to be, they can't afford to just needlessly fight with each other, and I think Tyrion did pick needless fights with Cercei.

[Winter's Knight]

Not wanting it to turn into Cersei/Tyrion bickering but admit that Cersei hated Tyrion and didn't take him seriously. Preventive measures are needed when somebody wants to fuck you up

Except, you know, she did: she accepted him as hand, listened to his counsel-what more was she to do?

And in return, he princenapped Tommen. Tyrion's problem was that he insisted on doing everything hehind Cersei's back when there was no need for it.

[David Selig]

Rulers allow people to be murdered all the time

You cannot be arguing that Tyrion should have worked for Cersei are you? Things went so well once Cersei had complete power right? Wait no she is in a dungeon, she royally pissed off the Tyrells, she allowed the faith to re-arm (nothing quite as danderous as relegious fanatics with weapons and she drove the most powerful financial institution in the world to Stannis' cause. Way to go, Cersei

Why not? This was supposed to be his job, remember? It's the whole point of being the Hand - you work for the King, or in the case, the Regent, since the King was underaged.

And Cersei was a lot smarter and reasonable before her paranoia bout after Tywin and Joffrey's deaths.

I am not saying Tyrion should've done everything Cersei asked of him without objections and go along with her plans if they were clearly disastrous, but he antagonised her way too much and often for no other reason but to annoy and anger her. Why did he had to kidnap Tommen for example? That was such a dumb idea, and it lead directly to Tyrion's downfall.

[Evamitchelle]

Cersei and Tyrion spent so much antagonizing each other that it allowed LF to play them both like fools. For example I'm pretty convinced that Mandon Moore was actually sent by LF instead of Cersei, but Tyrion is so certain it's all her fault that he never once stops to consider the possibility that, maybe, LF would like to get rid of him. Another example would be when they're deciding on who to send to the Tyrells, Cersei and Tyrion are so busy trying to get the other out of KL that Littlefinger manages to go himself, and creates a massive conspiracy that hurts both Cersei and Tyrion (by killing her son and framing him for the murder).

[danm_999]

I am not saying Tyrion should've done everything Cersei asked of him without objections and go along with her plans if they were clearly disastrous, but he antagonised her way too much and often for no other reason but to annoy and anger her.

He was specifically there to supercede her authority because she had cocked things up so badly.

Why did he had to kidnap Tommen for example?

That was such a dumb idea, and it lead directly to Tyrion's downfall.

Because he didn't trust Gyles Rosby to defend Tommen if worst came to worst and Stannis took King's Landing, so he sent Jacelyn Bywater considering him a more reliable and courageous man.

[Winter's Knight]

Because he didn't trust Gyles Rosby to defend Tommen if worst came to worst and Stannis took King's Landing, so he sent Jacelyn Bywater considering him a more reliable and courageous man.

But why do it behind Cersei's back?

[LordBloodraven]

Shouldnt he have killed Baelish, Varys and Pycelle while he had the chance? They all had uses, particuarly Baelish and Varys but come on. Surely there was somone else who could have negotiating with the Tyrells. Varys is harder to replace but still. He said himself he should have

Well I guess he could. But Why? Baelish has diplomatic skills and a honeyed tongue and proved himself useful to House Lannister. I don't see why he should kill Varys at the start of ACOK except having served Aerys. But the threat was still there.

Except, you know, she did: she accepted him as hand, listened to his counsel-what more was she to do?

And in return, he princenapped Tommen. Tyrion's problem was that he insisted on doing everything hehind Cersei's back when there was no need for it.

Cersei lusts for power but is not good at ruling. Plus, she doesn't take Tyrion seriously and begrudges his temporary post as Hand. Pycelle was Cersei's catspaw and was working against Tyrion. The same thing happened with Slynt and the Kettleblacks. Instead of preparing the defences of KL, she sends the gold cloaks away killing Bob's bastards and by the way giving credit to Stannis's casus belli. You cannot share power with Cersei because she doesn't want to. Simple as that, and Tywin send Tyrion for one reason: to rule in his stead. In times of war, two hands on the steering wheel is better than four.

[The guy from the Vale]

Because Cersei was paranoid, and wouldn't have accepted this. Had Tyrion propose this to her, she would have refused at best, and probably punished Tyrion for this suggestion.

[LordBloodraven]

But why do it behind Cersei's back?

Why did Cersei send Tommen with Gyles Rosby without informing Tyrion?

[Winter's Knight]

Why did Cersei send Tommen with Gyles Rosby without informing Tyrion?

Probably because he sneakily arranged Mycella's marriage without telling her?

[danm_999]

But why do it behind Cersei's back?

Cersei threatened to have him thrown in the dungeon when he arrived in King's Landing to take his position as hand.

Cersei threatened to take vengeance against him for sending Myrcella to Dorne.

Cersei tried to muscle him with Lancel when he found out Pycelle was a rat.

Cersei is a dangerous, volatile person who does not allow good judgement within 500 metres of herself, so doing something as ostensibly threatening as kidnapping her son needs to be done secretly.