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Xray the Enforcer, June 6, 2012 in General (ASoIaF)
With regard to Alfie Allen's comment:
Luke was the son of the 'prince' of the evil Empire
Luke was spirited away to be raised by his aunt and uncle in secret
Luke's mother died in childbirth after a traumatic event transpired with his father
all these fit R+L=J
It's surprising to me that he would say anything at all. Martin has done a pretty good job of not revealing anything about it in interviews .But it's cool he slipped in a clue.
I feel more like the show is almost trying to do away with RL=J considering they've mentioned R and L like barley at all.
I wouldn't be surprised if the show is deliberately not going there out of respect to GRRM. Jon's parents have been GRRM's big mystery for many years now and I think that he has earned the right to tell us when and where he wants to and not have it spoiled by some 'johnny-come-lately' TV series.
I figured the writers not giving out many hints in the episodes may have been one of GRRM's conditions for the rights to do the show rather than them doing it of their own choice.
Please, could you paste the latest posts of the V.25?
First time poster -- longtime lurker. I didn't read the books until after season one and didn't catch on to R + L = J until I started google searching for theories on Jon's mother. I don't think the show is ignoring it but may be string to slowly introduce it much like the fantasy elements thus to not totally throw off viewers who just watch the show but haven't and don't intend to read the books. The fact that we will be introducing The Reeds next season and a great deal of cast interviews mention the theory as of late we may be getting more clues on screen shortly. Also given the popularity of the show and how fast we are catching up to the books -- we may get an entire season on Roberts Rebellion so I can see the reluctance for flashbacks.
This is good first post, Medieval Genius.
It's one thing to read the content of Ned's thoughts, memories and dreams in the book but harder to bring that to life in a live action TV series in a way that isn't either blatantly spoilerific or awkward exposition, or both. Those little hints and clues are very cleverly woven into other parts of the book stories, piece by piece, in a way that it takes some work to figure out.
If the show runners are trying to keep to the basic story arc and time frames of the books in the tv series, there are certain things that are important now and other things that can be disclosed later. I think some of the detail from the books is being lost in the short 10 episode season and there's only so much the audience can absorb with already a half dozen major storylines. Maybe they think that happened 17/18 years in the past has to wait to be revealed slowly while the current story is progressing.
One of the reviews of the finale pointed out that in the throne room scene in Danaerys' vision, there is one quick shot of the 7 pointed star in color before everything washes out in black, gray and white. In the center of that star appears to be a blue flower. It's easier to see in the extended features. It wouldn't mean anything to a non-book reader and it was just a quick flash, but it could be the first of may hints. On the TV series, we haven't heard the story of the wreath of blue roses that Rhaegar gave Lyanna, or the story of Bael the Bard and the importance of the blue rose. If/when that is revealed in later seasons, it may be a little hint that blue roses may tie Rhaegar to Lyanna, as well as the blue rose that Bael the Bard left in the place of the abducted daughter of Lord Stark who later gave birth to his bastard son.
In re: Alfie Allen's comments, assuming he's not just trolling the fansn and he let something slip that was meant to be kept a secret, I think he said Jon's story is sort of like Luke Skywalker, not exactly like it. That could mean a lot of things but certainly there are obvious parallels between a motherless (presumed orphan) child, raised by an Uncle (who is later killed by the Powers-That-Be) and who later goes off to join an ancient order of warriors and has certain innate extrasensory abilities. Luke learns the truth about his father, and I think Jon will find out the truth about his real father and mother.
I agree that the reason the show has been tight-lipped is to avoid giving it away outright. What comes off as subtle in the books would be a baseball bat to the head in a TV medium.
All I know is that when it is revealed that Rheagar is Jon's father, it will be EPIC
And yet the TWOP Unsullied are all over it (though only after first theorizing he was Robert & Cersei's stillborn child, and then Ned and Cersei's love child. Third time's a charm, though!).
you know what, i can only imagine Rhaegar/Lyanna's relief when Jon came out he had dark hair. made things easier to hide/keep secret. UNLESS of course somehow Rhaegar figured that out hence why he chose a Stark/Lyanna, etc...
How could anyone who's never read the books or these forums (or had someone else spoil it for them) conclude that R+L=J? The interview the other posts are referring to? I can't keep up with these boards, let alone other sites, so I'm curious.
Rhaegar died before Jon was born, so he could never have felt that relief. Also, many babies have very little hair, and many children's hair color changes in their first few years. Case in point: I was born blond, but my hair has darkened to a dark brown since, while my sister was born with black hair and is a dark blonde herself now.
I think that's at least part of the Ashara Dayne rumours, actually. Ned certainly couldn't risk on having silver hair without having an explanation for that. So he planted the Ashara roumor; since there are silver-haired Daynes, he could simply have pointed to her as explanation.
ok my bad, Rhaegar obviously wouldn't have seen his kid having gone to battle way before Lyanna went in labor. but i'm wondering if the hair color is also factor if he wanted to hide an heir in Jon by choosing the (dominantly) dark-haired Starks? it's a shallow reason but who knows it may have contributed in his choice of Starks/Lyanna along with the obvious mystical warging capabilities they had + the whole falling in love thing at Harrenhal. did he have reason to hide a third heir in the first place assuming things didn't get out of hand? the whole mess with Robert's Rebellion happened only after Brandon/Rickard died caused by him and Lyanna's disappearance.
anyhow it might have just been coincidence at this point re: hair color people just seem to make such a big fuss of it i'm starting to wonder if Rhaegar or Lyanna themselves had concerns with the color of their child's hair. obviously it's no biggie if circumstances were peaceful but it would be a huge concern if they were hiding him.
cue the "Finale" track of the TV soundtrack. i don't know why but whenever i read about Rhaegar/Lyanna, Jon/Dany i keep hearing that music in my head. one of the best/most epic scores to be quite honest.
Alfie Allen says:"You know, I asked him [GRRM ]about who Jon Snow's real parents were, and he told me. I can't say who, but I can tell you that it involves a bit of a Luke Skywalker situation."
It doesn't confirm R+l=J exactly, but it DOES confirm his parents were not Ned Stark+some ramdom woman!!!
The show has dropped clues that at least Ned is not the father. In the first season, Robert was down in the crypts looking at the statue of Lyanna and going on and on about how much he wanted to kill Rhaegar again and Ned kept silent. There was that scene where Jon asked about his mother and Ned said they'd talk about it when they next saw one another. Ned then had that conversation with Robert where Robert was asking him about Wylla. The most recent one was when Jaime was going on and on about how noble and honorable Ned was and yet he fathered a bastard. My sister, who is not the type to uncover mysteries and never notices any hints in books or shows (she doesn't even know the names of half the lead characters on the show), noticed this and phoned me exclaiming, "I just came up with the most awesome theory. Ned was not Jon Snow's father!"
Season one wasn't fresh in her mind and since she can't even remember Arya's name (her favorite character) she couldn't remember any of the names that were dropped in the first season. She's gone back to watch and it she's come close to guessing. Lyanna is a potential Jon mother she's picked out. Mad King Aerys was a potential father she guessed. If my sister, who's talents do not lie in picking up clues, has figured out that Ned is not Jon's father, then I'm certain that others who haven't read the books have as well.
GRRM may be doing a good job, but apparently the actors from Game of Thrones are not following his lead. Sean Bean gave an interview in New York Magazine where he all but admitted that he is not Jon's father. Alfie Allen does the same thing in his interview. If GRRM wants to keep R + L = J a mystery, he might want to tell the actors.