How Do You Envision Old Valyria

[Tewks44]

Throughout the novels we often hear about the ancient expansive empire known as the Valyrian Freehold. They used dragons in military conquests, had a unique culture and conquered the majority of Essos West of Qarth. However, how do you envision them culturally, militarily, and in terms of infrastructure. I'll have a go to get things started.

Culturally - I think of the empire being a dominantly Grecian culture. Something similar to Alexander the Great's empire. However, I also feel like there are some Persian elements in their culture as well. As you will see below, I also think Valyria was a center of learning akin to the medieval Middle East or Constantinople.

Militarily - I can't imagine any parallel to ancient or medieval armies. I think they had standing armies to be sure, but their military might centered mainly around dragons. Because of this I would imagine they had a small standing army, leading the people of Valyria to farm, advance the sciences, and turn Valyria into a prosperous center of learning.

Infrastructure - I picture a Roman style of infrastructure. Well built roads that will last for centuries, large cities that are well supplied with markets and public wells, and overall good organization across the empire.

If someone forced me up against a wall and told me to pick one empire or kingdom that most closely matched Valyria I would say the Byzantine Empire.

[cmoor26]

Doomed.

[Walder Waters]

I would like to learn more about the valyrian constitution/government. Was there a king? An Emperor? Or a high nobility of only a few families, that controlled the whole freehold? A Council of Dragon Masters?

[Darth Rivers]

Rome, but with silver-haired people and dragons.

Culturally - I think of the empire being a dominantly Grecian culture. Something similar to Alexander the Great's empire. However, I also feel like there are some Persian elements in their culture as well. As you will see below, I also think Valyria was a center of learning akin to the medieval Middle East or Constantinople.

And I think you are just making that up for no reason, to sound smart. What does Valyria have to do with Alexander? Or Persia? Look, Ghis was still pretty western, with legions and shit. If you look at the map, Valyria = Rome, Ghis = Greece, Qarth = Constantinople+Carthage, Asshai = Asia.

@Walder Waters The Valyrian empire was a freehold - every free Valyrian could vote. But there are many, many slaves and non-citizen subjects. So the Roman republic it is.

[Gurkhal]

For me its pretty clear - incest-fixated Romans with dragons.

[xRobbStarkx]

If only we could get a little more info on Valyria, either a story Sam finds in an old tome or a recount by Euron.

There is so much mystery surrounding that place and the "Doom", and it has been tantalizingly presented so that we know the "what" of what happened there but we don't know why/how.

[Rodrik of Dorne]

I would like to learn more about the valyrian constitution/government. Was there a king? An Emperor? Or a high nobility of only a few families, that controlled the whole freehold? A Council of Dragon Masters?

Valyria was a Freehold, like Volantis.

Also, I guess their architecture was not "classical", meaning Graeco-Roman, but not unlike Dragonstone's. They shaped rock with their dragons and magic, and thus were not limited to the use of columns or other ancient age techniques.

[Fire Eater]

I would imagine the city of the Freehold of Valyria to be beautiful with towers (like the topless towers mentioned by Cat in AGoT), walls and columns and fountains shaped by Valyrian sorcery with many beautiful and astounding images. There might be beautiful gardens expertly arranged and designed. The city would be surrounded by a wall as big or bigger than the Black Wall in Volantis. The wall being surrounded by the hovels of slaves.

There would probably be caves in the mountain sides for dragons' nesting.

The standing army of Valyria might resemble the legions of the Roman army in some respects.

[Rodrik of Dorne]

And something like the dragonpit, but much much bigger.

[Snowmelter]

Rome would be the best fit, if Rome had sorcerers and dragons.

[Dragonstar]

Valyria to me = Thera (Present day Santorini) & the general Minoan culture - that was brought to a cataclysmic end by the eruption of Thera.

[Ser Thomas Derpingham]

A horrible mishmash of Roman and Greek culture, with a predominantly Roman Empire motif throughout the entire Valyrian Freehold.

So, the Byzantine Empire, with Dragons, Brother and Sisterfucking, wildfire, magic, and such.

[Chirios]

Rome pre Octavian.

[Gurkhal]

Rome pre Octavian.

Pre-Octavian? They seem more like Imperial Rome than Republican Rome to me.

[Fraemakr]

In all fairness, I think it is impossible to guess what the Valyrian culture, architecture, or governance was like, purely on the basis of the dragons. As with Dragonstone, they could have shaped rock into shapes that would not be immediately thought of, purely because they could not realistically exist. The same goes with culture; my thoughts would be that the culture centred around dragons, as they were the key to forging their empire, although probably in the same way the Starks focus on Direwolves, and the Lannisters focus on lions. To Valyria, the dragons were probably not seen as magical, astonishing creatures, but more as weapons or as, in a way, pets.

Whenever thinking of Valyria, though, I think it is probably intended to seem like Rome or Greece, as a great state in Antiquity, with, in my view, the Ghiscari Empire replacing Persia. This is based on the patterns seen elsewhere: the seven kingdoms seem to represent Western Europe, the Free Cities, barring Volantis, are a take on the Italian City States, while Volantis is the Byzantine Empire. In aDwD, someone states that Volantis saw itself as the succesor to Valyria, and when Tyrion visits there, it seems to be a state in stagnation, like the Byzantines. This is why I think it makes sense for Valyria to be based, somewhat loosely, on Imperial Rome.

[Istari]

When I picture Old Valyrian structures, I always think of Minas Tirith (as interpreted by the LOTR films).....but with a little bit of dragon accents

[Mediumjon Umber]

Definitely Rome. Notable parallells between Old Valyria and Rome is the fact that both built roads, had some degree of democracy and the constant clash with Old Ghis (Rome and Carthago; the romans supposedly sew salt in earth so that nothing could grow there again and the Valyrians did the same in Old Ghis).

But the one thing I think is the definite link between Rome and Valyria is the Doom and the parallells between it and the destruction of Pompei after the eruption of Vesuvius. There's nowhere written that Valyria fell because of a volcanic eruption but I think it's the most reasonable theory. Read the wiki entry about the Doom of Valyria. "Every hill for five miles split asunder to fill the air with ash and smoke and fire" and "fiery fountains spewed molten rock a thousand feet into the air" clearly speaks of volcanoes. Both the Doom and Vesuvius caused a tsunami. And the black blood of demons could be interpreted as acid rain.

[Chirios]

Pre-Octavian? They seem more like Imperial Rome than Republican Rome to me.

Not sure, but I don't think we have heard of Valyrian kings or emperors or permanent First Consuls before Aegon came along, so the Republican Rome model could fit.

[Azor Ahai Reborn II]

We really have not been given that much to go on. If you read through the above it is all illussions and opinions, and rightly so at this point. I believe we shall learn more about Valyria from both Euron and Sam. At some point we must gain some nugget of information from Euron as to why he is so certain of his powers, perhaps there is still a small conclave of Valyrian people still alive, who taught him his magic, lets face it he killed Balon with the power of the wind!

Sam will be studying texts within the Citadel and will find something, there must be more to come from him or he would be dead.

Personally I cannot see certain aspects of Valyria, it was obviously a volcanic land but we do not what level of technology they acquired. I think Rome is a good view, a bit as Qarth appears in the TV series.

[Terilien]

I imagine that while there are certainly paralells between rome and valyria, their technology probably made for much more elaborate and advanced/achitecture engineering.

I imagine the city of Valyria as a swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers.