Jaimie, Brienne, jon snow and SToneheart predictions in the tWoW

[Tini]

How can they come to an understanding if they don't talk about it? If they talk about it, Brienne might argue to let Stoneheart live, and they might come up with a plan that accomplishes that.

I don't think she'll necessarily argue for Stoneheart's continued existence, though. Stoneheart is already dead. And there is very little of Lady Catelyn left in her. Killing Stoneheart might be considered a mercy.

[iamthedave]

Id be happy to hear your prediction if you want to share it?

I'm reasonably sure the BWB will play a part in the Freys' comeuppance, but I don't think Catelyn will 'live' for much longer. I personally suspect that Thoros of Myr is going to realize how much was lost when Cat came back after seeing her attempt to murder Pod and Hyle (the one completely innocent, the latter because... uh... because some people he knew killed some of the Brothers? That seemed to be their only reason), and his conscience will force him to do something that will result in Jaime/Brienne (either or both) getting away alive from whatever is about to happen.

I'm talking in vagueries because I don't want to speculate too much. Given Martin's penchant for high drama I think Cat will have Brienne duel Jaime. There are plenty of reasons why she wouldn't, but them duelling, after having set up Jaime's lack of skill with his off hand with such dedication, playing up Brienne's injuries etc, seems to be the most dramatic resolution to this scenario, and hence I think Martin will go that route and find a reason for it to occur.

I expect Thoros will make his move around there.

Alternatively, I think the Brotherhood will be interrupted by an attack from... I can't remember his name... Hyle's former boss' men. We know they've hunted the Brotherhood extensively and with some success (hence why they're so pissed), so it wouldn't be out of the blue for a party to encounter them. In the ensuing chaos Jaime is injured but not killed, and he then drops off the face of the earth to heal, explaining why no-one's heard from him. I've heard it suggested he might end up on the Quiet Isle, run into Sandor, and thus get him back into the story as well (since Martin has hinted he's not finished with the Hound quite yet; though that may have been people reading into a fairly vague statement).

Honestly I'm irritated more than anything else with Jaime's chapter in Dance. Martin might as well have ended it with the words 'SPECULATE, DAMN YOU, SPECULATE!' It felt like a cheap, cynical ending.

[Dolorous Ali]

really? i havent come across anyone who believes ghost will be sacrificed yet, or anyone who WANTS to believe it :laugh: .

i really like ghost aswell and i dont want him dead either, tbh ders no real evidence so i guess it would be regarded as "crackpot" but yes one of the reasons i thought of it is because oathkeeper is ice and i think it will end up with a stark somehow, although i dont think oathkeeper is the only option i think using longclaw would have the same effect but i think longclaw might end up with jorah mormont when he comes to the wall with dany somehow..

some of the main reasons are that i dont believe light bringer is just hidden somewhere and will just appear so i think it will have to be forged again so there will need to be a sacrifice of some sort. some say it may be dawn and the daynes still have it, even if it ends up being dawn, dawn is not aflame so i think that would need a sacrifice to re awaken its powers again.

thats where ghost comes in. if jon really is AA i think ghost symbolises the thing most dear to him like the originals AA wife. so this is just speculation but if it came to a sacrifice i think GRRM would choose ghost aswell, not that he doesnt like ghost but just because it suits the plot (wev seen him do it before).

people say he could sacrifice arya or rickon or bran etc but i think each one would be as hard as the other for him so why would GRRM choose one without him/her having any real significance.

id love to see the story finish with ghost still beside jon( if jons still alive) but i think hel end up warging and riding a dragon somehow, and ghost being used to symbolize his change from stark to targaryen when he finds out R+l=j..

Hmm... It seems plausible, but does the sacrifice have to be killing someone? If NW=lightbringer then the sacrifice is already done! And didn't Stannis sacrificed the seven for his lightbringer (even though it's fake)? I can't see Jon changing sides, he's too much of a Stark even if he finds out he's a Targ. Anyways, your theory seems much better now, not the oathkeeper part but the Ghost part. Maybe Jon's death can be used as a kind of sacrifice before the his resurrection.

Now, I agree that if it comes to sacrifice it's likely to be Ghost, and it is waaaaay better than killing Arya for it.

And yeah, for real. I saw some people is some thread in the general section saying your theory, and I was kinda starting to doubt myself..

Thanks for your explanation

[Jolene Brown]

I like the Quiet Isle speculation - I've been racking my brains trying to figure out why Jaime has been missing so long - it seems irresponsible, since he knows there are issues in King's Landing. No matter how much he dislikes/is angry at Cercei, I can't see him just abandoning Tommen like htat. But if he was seriously injured and Brienne brought him to the Quiet Isle to heal, that would make sense, and make it easy to revive the Hound/Sandor, which is something I am really looking forward to, and which seems prognosticated to some extent (Jaime/Hound working together) by Bran's vision all the way back in A Game of Thrones, during his coma.

[The Red Hand]

I'm really looking forward to Sandor vs. Robert Strong. The trial has to take place before the 5 year gap, right?

[PromisedPrince]

How can they come to an understanding if they don't talk about it? If they talk about it, Brienne might argue to let Stoneheart live, and they might come up with a plan that accomplishes that.

I don't think she'll necessarily argue for Stoneheart's continued existence, though. Stoneheart is already dead. And there is very little of Lady Catelyn left in her. Killing Stoneheart might be considered a mercy.

i meant come to an understanding WITH lady stoneheart (if thats possible), or maybe lady stoneheart just dies...

maybe her sentencing brienne to death was enough to show brienne shes not catelyn anymore

[PromisedPrince]

I like the Quiet Isle speculation - I've been racking my brains trying to figure out why Jaime has been missing so long - it seems irresponsible, since he knows there are issues in King's Landing. No matter how much he dislikes/is angry at Cercei, I can't see him just abandoning Tommen like htat. But if he was seriously injured and Brienne brought him to the Quiet Isle to heal, that would make sense, and make it easy to revive the Hound/Sandor, which is something I am really looking forward to, and which seems prognosticated to some extent (Jaime/Hound working together) by Bran's vision all the way back in A Game of Thrones, during his coma.

what was brans vision i dont remember anything like that?

doesnt jaimie know his uncle is there in kings landing? wouldnt that mean he knows tommen is safe and his new promise to fulfill all oaths is more important?

[PromisedPrince]

Hmm... It seems plausible, but does the sacrifice have to be killing someone? If NW=lightbringer then the sacrifice is already done! And didn't Stannis sacrificed the seven for his lightbringer (even though it's fake)? I can't see Jon changing sides, he's too much of a Stark even if he finds out he's a Targ. Anyways, your theory seems much better now, not the oathkeeper part but the Ghost part. Maybe Jon's death can be used as a kind of sacrifice before the his resurrection.

Now, I agree that if it comes to sacrifice it's likely to be Ghost, and it is waaaaay better than killing Arya for it.

And yeah, for real. I saw some people is some thread in the general section saying your theory, and I was kinda starting to doubt myself..

Thanks for your explanation

no problem.

i think the sacrifice has to be something important because its kinda emphasised in the original AA story how he try to forge it afew times i dont remember what he did first but i remember he stabbed a lions heart with it and it didnt turn into light bringer until his third try when he stabbed his wifes heart with it. so stannis try wouldnt work by stabbing afew statues of the seven even if he was AA reborn.

ive heard you say you think the nw is light bringer quite afew times, what makes you think so? dont you see it falling apart soon enough? i mean the wall has to go down for the others to pass right and if the wall falls surely there will be no nights watch..

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

I like the Quiet Isle speculation - I've been racking my brains trying to figure out why Jaime has been missing so long - it seems irresponsible, since he knows there are issues in King's Landing. No matter how much he dislikes/is angry at Cercei, I can't see him just abandoning Tommen like htat. But if he was seriously injured and Brienne brought him to the Quiet Isle to heal, that would make sense, and make it easy to revive the Hound/Sandor, which is something I am really looking forward to, and which seems prognosticated to some extent (Jaime/Hound working together) by Bran's vision all the way back in A Game of Thrones, during his coma.

Brienne is sworn to find and return Sansa. Jaime has promised Cately in the past that he would return Sansa and Arya safely when she let him go free. So since it seems likely that these two are back together again, then they are looking for one or both of the Stark girls, right? This is what these two are up to (I think).

[Dolorous Ali]

no problem.

i think the sacrifice has to be something important because its kinda emphasised in the original AA story how he try to forge it afew times i dont remember what he did first but i remember he stabbed a lions heart with it and it didnt turn into light bringer until his third try when he stabbed his wifes heart with it. so stannis try wouldnt work by stabbing afew statues of the seven even if he was AA reborn.

ive heard you say you think the nw is light bringer quite afew times, what makes you think so? dont you see it falling apart soon enough? i mean the wall has to go down for the others to pass right and if the wall falls surely there will be no nights watch..

go to that link. It's Apple Martini giving ample evidence for it.

I do think that NW will fail at the first attempt against the Others, but I don't believe that NW is gonna be destroyed, and I believe they would retaliate. And even if the wall goes down completely, NW isn't destroyed yet, it's just lost their best defense. Also, it doesn't have to go down. Yes, there are spells gaurding it, but the spells could be removed. Or maybe only a portion of the wall will be destroyed.

[brut]

If I had to put my money on it (and I’ve been promoting this scenario recently):

1. Brienne will take Jamie to unCat

2. In her Lannister hatred, unCat will sentence Jamie to immediate death

3. Though, Jamie will demand trial. Thoros will support the claim in the same way as he supported and conducted trials by battle during unBeric times. Remember, BwB are ALL followers of R'hlor. They've been converted to the Red religion. All of them are also knights, so the members of Brotherhood will agree that Jamie should be granted the trial by battle chance

5. unCat will remain in minority, and she will concede seeing how Jamie lacks his sword arm, and thinking that he would not best her champion

6. And her champion would be, drum roll, Brienne

7. Brienne will have no choice but to agree and face Jamie, as she believes that way she would be able to save him

8. And saving him she does. Brienne will return Oathkeeper to Jamie as for all purposes this is his sword. She will also sacrifice herself

9. Her death will be willing. The Oathkeeper will become Lightbringer

10. unCat will be furious and will try to kill Jamie herself, but Thoros will interfere and take her life in a most epic way – by beheading

11. The Brotherhood will proclaim Jamie AA

12. Jamie will be awesome in the last two books

Now, some housekeeping before anyone goes further and lights up crackpot:

1. To become Lightbringer, the sword does not have to be tempered by water or lion’s blood. We know almost certainly that the two swords forged and tempered by these elements failed. So, AA forged the third one, and asked for a willing sacrifice of his love. Willingness in sacrifice makes all the difference. So, in the case with Brienne, this is the only way Oathkeeper becomes Lightbringer

2. Out of the three Red Priests known to us, none except Thoros are shown to possess enough power to resurrect people. I give it to Mel, she reads fires (very poorly) and dose some glamors (quite well), but nowhere is it implied that she can resurrect someone. Moqorro is almost certainly able to restore body parts and read fires, but again, nothing implies that he can resurrect the dead. As for our friend Thoros, well, he’s done this MULTIPLE times, and WAAAAY before dragons were hatched (i.e. before the fire magic became strong). It also makes logical sense. Thoros was sent to convert the Westerosi king to the Red Religion, and does anyone for a second believe that such a mission would be entrusted to a mediocre priest? True, Thoros himself claims that he is unworthy and unskilled, but this is basically certain self-diminution on his part, which is also understandable, as he would prefer to keep low profile in the foreign land that may have been hostile to his religious practices. I will be posting on Thoros in a separate topic…

So, what I wanted to say, is that don’t assume that someone will go to the Wall, or someone at the Wall will resurrect Jon (if he is dead, that is). Resurrecting requires power. And such power is only possessed by one person we know. And Thoros will stick with Jamie and his Brotherhood.

3. Without the AA assumption, there is certainly no reason whatsoever for the BwB to head North. They know Arya Bolton is fake. They know Winterfell is taken. They know their force has dwindled. So, the only way I see the BwB heading North is if they have AA to lead them, their purpose being fighting the Winter itself.

4. Jon Snow is not dead.

[PromisedPrince]

Now, some housekeeping before anyone goes further and lights up crackpot:

1. To become Lightbringer, the sword does not have to be tempered by water or lion’s blood. We know almost certainly that the two swords forged and tempered by these elements failed. So, AA forged the third one, and asked for a willing sacrifice of his love. Willingness in sacrifice makes all the difference. So, in the case with Brienne, this is the only way Oathkeeper becomes Lightbringer

2. Out of the three Red Priests known to us, none except Thoros are shown to possess enough power to resurrect people. I give it to Mel, she reads fires (very poorly) and dose some glamors (quite well), but nowhere is it implied that she can resurrect someone. Moqorro is almost certainly able to restore body parts and read fires, but again, nothing implies that he can resurrect the dead. As for our friend Thoros, well, he’s done this MULTIPLE times, and WAAAAY before dragons were hatched (i.e. before the fire magic became strong). It also makes logical sense. Thoros was sent to convert the Westerosi king to the Red Religion, and does anyone for a second believe that such a mission would be entrusted to a mediocre priest? True, Thoros himself claims that he is unworthy and unskilled, but this is basically certain self-diminution on his part, which is also understandable, as he would prefer to keep low profile in the foreign land that may have been hostile to his religious practices. I will be posting on Thoros in a separate topic…

So, what I wanted to say, is that don’t assume that someone will go to the Wall, or someone at the Wall will resurrect Jon (if he is dead, that is). Resurrecting requires power. And such power is only possessed by one person we know. And Thoros will stick with Jamie and his Brotherhood.

3. Without the AA assumption, there is certainly no reason whatsoever for the BwB to head North. They know Arya Bolton is fake. They know Winterfell is taken. They know their force has dwindled. So, the only way I see the BwB heading North is if they have AA to lead them, their purpose being fighting the Winter itself.

4. Jon Snow is not dead.

your idea is plausible but it doesnt give evidence to rule out any other ideas, nor does it give any evidence into why you think jaimie would become AA? why does mel only see snow when she asks to see AA?

jamie needs to keep his oath so if he finds out rickon is alive why wouldnt he go north with an army or even just brienne?

thoros is the only one we have seen ressurect someone because hes the only one thats needed to do so. has there been any other time were mel needed to ressurect someone? or moqorrro? thoros also says he is unworthy and unskilled when he is already with the BwB and has already performed several ressurections.

beric dondarrion ressurected lady stoneheart not thoros, was he a skilled priest aswell?

weve seen mel perform more magic than thoros just not any ressurections if i had to put my money on it i would say shes more powerful.

i dont see any evidence that would rule out ur theory but your theory doesnt rule out any others at this point, anything could happen because we dont have enought information on AA tbh.

i dont know why GRRM would make jaime AA though if you have any evidence why you think he would could you please share?

[Lord Damian]

I think Jaime will be compelled to getting the prisoners from the Red Wedding back into friendly hands and Jaime will remain with this faction until he meets Cersei for what will be the final time.

[brut]

Of cause I don't rule out anything, and in the world of aAoIaF anything is possible, still we have to make logical conclusions based on what we know so far. And what we know is:

Thoros cannot be just some inferior red wizard. He was sent to KL to convert a monarch to the R'hlor's religion. Think of a missionary sent to the Queen of England to convert her into another religion. Would that be some illiterate person, or would that be someone possessing knowledge and charisma? Thoros was sent to Westeros - a region dominated by different beliefs in the bid to create footing for the Red lot there. This could not have been entrusted to just a random guy. Bloody hell, Thoros was the first person to scale Pyke and penetrate the breach, killing Ironborn left and right with his flaming sword. Granted, he is one of the best swordsman there is, but surely, that would have not been possible without certain assistance of magic. Do you think Mel would have been able to do that? How about Moqorro? I don’t doubt for a second that strength of his magic is unique, along with his fighting qualities. He definitely stands out from all the other Red Priests that we’ve seen.

Mel certainly could have resurrected many people that served Stan and died. Power to raise an army of undead serving Stan would certainly have helped him in his bid for the Iron Throne. She doesn't do that. All she does on Dragonstone is burning nightfires and praying. If she were able to resurrect someone, she would have done that hundreds of times. The implications of this would have been huge. People would have flocked to the Red Religion if they had seen that a Red Priest is able to bring dead back. Why do you believe the BwB converted to R'hlor and followed Beric with Thoros? Certainly not because Thoros had a "godly" appearance, or because Beric is the best fighter there is. No, they have seen what Thoros can do. They have seen how he brought Beric multiple times back from the dead. And mind you, if the timeline is to be believed, the first several times that he reanimates Beric is way before magic strengthens. Beric was certainly not important considering his influence on the events when he was alive. But once Beric becomes unBeric, we actually see how it made sense for Thoros to come to Westeros. As the word spread of the Beric Undying, people start joining the BwB. Harwin confirms in aSoS”

“For every man we lost, two showed up to take his place… Men of all sorts, and women too, children, dogs…”

Now, the BwB is not just a band of outlaws, the BwB follows R’hlor, so consider what Harwin is actually saying. By far, Mel fails to achieve such devotion from people. No one flocks R’hlor at Dragonstone. People are predominantly forced to proclaim for the Red Religion. Even worse, Mel burns the Seven – a very hostile move, I must say. Still, there’s no love lost between ordinary people and R’hlor on Dragostone.

Also,Beric did not resurrect jack’s ass :) Thoros resurrected unCat after Beric couldn’t persuade him and gave up his life.

Now, why do I believe that Jamie is AA, and not Jon? Well, here’s the full text of the prophecy (I know, had been done hundreds of times, and interpreted back and forth, but here we go again):

"There will come a (1) day after a long summer when the (2) stars bleed and the (3) cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a (4) warrior shall (5) draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

(1) There has to be Winter;

(2) Stars should bleed, also the way it is worded, “stars” should be bleeding after the long summer, so all the previous “bleeding stars” do not apply. Brianne’s sigil is a falling star. If she sacrifices herself to Jamie, she most certainly will bleed.

(3) This is to imply that the coldness and darkness of Winter, along with the dread of the WW is slowly invading the land. Read events at the Wall that have repercussion on the whole of Westeros should the WW breach the barrier.

(4) AA has to be a Warrior. Jon Snow is NOT a warrior. Granted, he is a better swordsman than most of his NW friends, and he defended the Wall along with the band of misfits, but largely in terms of loving to war, being created for the war he is probably far behind Jamie. Jamie IS the warrior in his heart. Jon may be the King of Winter material, or the PtwP but almost certainly not the AA.

(5) Most surely, this will happen after his fight with Brienne. Probably, being mad at her for sacrificing herself, he will throw the sword into the fire, and it starts burning, or something similar. In any way, the setup is there for the event take place.

Becoming AA, means responsibilities. He basically has to fight the WWs, and not just sit idly. So, whatever his oaths were, he has to go North. Also, Rickon is most surely in the North, and Jamie’s trip North will definitely involve Winterfell one way or another.

Finally, I don’t see a better resolution of Jamie’s Brienne’s and unCat’s plot line than this.

[David Selig]

The BWB really hate the Lannisters. They've lost family members and friends due to their atrocities and have seen the results of the actions of Tywin's "mad dogs" first hand. The idea that they'll defend Jaime's right of a trial by battle seem extremely unlikely to me. Many of them would be more eager to hag him ASAP than UnCat. Did they want a trial by battle for Brienne or Ser Hyle? No. Why would they do it for Jaime, someone they hate a hell of a lot more?

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

Now, why do I believe that Jamie is AA, and not Jon? Well, here’s the full text of the prophecy (I know, had been done hundreds of times, and interpreted back and forth, but here we go again):

"There will come a (1) day after a long summer when the (2) stars bleed and the (3) cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a (4) warrior shall (5) draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

(1) There has to be Winter;

(2) Stars should bleed, also the way it is worded, “stars” should be bleeding after the long summer, so all the previous “bleeding stars” do not apply. Brianne’s sigil is a falling star. If she sacrifices herself to Jamie, she most certainly will bleed.

(3) This is to imply that the coldness and darkness of Winter, along with the dread of the WW is slowly invading the land. Read events at the Wall that have repercussion on the whole of Westeros should the WW breach the barrier.

(4) AA has to be a Warrior. Jon Snow is NOT a warrior. Granted, he is a better swordsman than most of his NW friends, and he defended the Wall along with the band of misfits, but largely in terms of loving to war, being created for the war he is probably far behind Jamie. Jamie IS the warrior in his heart. Jon may be the King of Winter material, or the PtwP but almost certainly not the AA.

(5) Most surely, this will happen after his fight with Brienne. Probably, being mad at her for sacrificing herself, he will throw the sword into the fire, and it starts burning, or something similar. In any way, the setup is there for the event take place.

Becoming AA, means responsibilities. He basically has to fight the WWs, and not just sit idly. So, whatever his oaths were, he has to go North. Also, Rickon is most surely in the North, and Jamie’s trip North will definitely involve Winterfell one way or another.

Finally, I don’t see a better resolution of Jamie’s Brienne’s and unCat’s plot line than this.

This is good stuff, Brut, as well as your previous post. It has opened my eyes regarding how the whole Brienne/Jaime/UnCat relationship may play out. It makes a lot of sense to me, except for the part about Thoros.

Thoros is more warrior than "magical priest". You can't doubt his prowess with a sword, but as a priest? Not so good. Yes, he is involved somehow with an ability to resurrect a person, but I believe only one person can stay resurrected at one time. Hence why unBeric had to unstep aside for unCat. This is an awesome power, but it's not like he can resurrect multiple people at will. There is one kind of living essence that can be moved from one dead person to another. They probably need a good reason to keep on living, blah blah blah, and then that person, who has this essence, can keep sort of living.

Plus, he seems as confused as anybody regarding this power. He only just started to be capable of reading fires, and seem confused about he suddenly had that ability, too. It looks like it's more a sign of the times, or being in the right place at the right time, that this power has been given to him, without him even knowing how in the hell he got it. But I agree it does make him powerful now, but it does seem that it has dropped into his lap, whereas with Mel she has probably taken years to aquire the abilities that she has.

[brut]

Yeah, at first I too though Thoros was not that important, but then realisation that he is actually the only one shown to possess revival powers out of the Red lot struck me. So, now I am researching him, and will post a new topic shortly on his merits in the current events of Westeros.

[Winter Wasnt That Bad]

OK, I'll look for it....

[PromisedPrince]

Of cause I don't rule out anything, and in the world of aAoIaF anything is possible, still we have to make logical conclusions based on what we know so far. And what we know is:

Thoros cannot be just some inferior red wizard. He was sent to KL to convert a monarch to the R'hlor's religion. Think of a missionary sent to the Queen of England to convert her into another religion. Would that be some illiterate person, or would that be someone possessing knowledge and charisma? Thoros was sent to Westeros - a region dominated by different beliefs in the bid to create footing for the Red lot there. This could not have been entrusted to just a random guy. Bloody hell, Thoros was the first person to scale Pyke and penetrate the breach, killing Ironborn left and right with his flaming sword. Granted, he is one of the best swordsman there is, but surely, that would have not been possible without certain assistance of magic. Do you think Mel would have been able to do that? How about Moqorro? I don’t doubt for a second that strength of his magic is unique, along with his fighting qualities. He definitely stands out from all the other Red Priests that we’ve seen.

Mel certainly could have resurrected many people that served Stan and died. Power to raise an army of undead serving Stan would certainly have helped him in his bid for the Iron Throne. She doesn't do that. All she does on Dragonstone is burning nightfires and praying. If she were able to resurrect someone, she would have done that hundreds of times. The implications of this would have been huge. People would have flocked to the Red Religion if they had seen that a Red Priest is able to bring dead back. Why do you believe the BwB converted to R'hlor and followed Beric with Thoros? Certainly not because Thoros had a "godly" appearance, or because Beric is the best fighter there is. No, they have seen what Thoros can do. They have seen how he brought Beric multiple times back from the dead. And mind you, if the timeline is to be believed, the first several times that he reanimates Beric is way before magic strengthens. Beric was certainly not important considering his influence on the events when he was alive. But once Beric becomes unBeric, we actually see how it made sense for Thoros to come to Westeros. As the word spread of the Beric Undying, people start joining the BwB. Harwin confirms in aSoS”

Now, the BwB is not just a band of outlaws, the BwB follows R’hlor, so consider what Harwin is actually saying. By far, Mel fails to achieve such devotion from people. No one flocks R’hlor at Dragonstone. People are predominantly forced to proclaim for the Red Religion. Even worse, Mel burns the Seven – a very hostile move, I must say. Still, there’s no love lost between ordinary people and R’hlor on Dragostone.

Also,Beric did not resurrect jack’s ass :) Thoros resurrected unCat after Beric couldn’t persuade him and gave up his life.

Now, why do I believe that Jamie is AA, and not Jon? Well, here’s the full text of the prophecy (I know, had been done hundreds of times, and interpreted back and forth, but here we go again):

"There will come a (1) day after a long summer when the (2) stars bleed and the (3) cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a (4) warrior shall (5) draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

(1) There has to be Winter;

(2) Stars should bleed, also the way it is worded, “stars” should be bleeding after the long summer, so all the previous “bleeding stars” do not apply. Brianne’s sigil is a falling star. If she sacrifices herself to Jamie, she most certainly will bleed.

(3) This is to imply that the coldness and darkness of Winter, along with the dread of the WW is slowly invading the land. Read events at the Wall that have repercussion on the whole of Westeros should the WW breach the barrier.

(4) AA has to be a Warrior. Jon Snow is NOT a warrior. Granted, he is a better swordsman than most of his NW friends, and he defended the Wall along with the band of misfits, but largely in terms of loving to war, being created for the war he is probably far behind Jamie. Jamie IS the warrior in his heart. Jon may be the King of Winter material, or the PtwP but almost certainly not the AA.

(5) Most surely, this will happen after his fight with Brienne. Probably, being mad at her for sacrificing herself, he will throw the sword into the fire, and it starts burning, or something similar. In any way, the setup is there for the event take place.

Becoming AA, means responsibilities. He basically has to fight the WWs, and not just sit idly. So, whatever his oaths were, he has to go North. Also, Rickon is most surely in the North, and Jamie’s trip North will definitely involve Winterfell one way or another.

Finally, I don’t see a better resolution of Jamie’s Brienne’s and unCat’s plot line than this.

i understand your theory more now and i like the idea of brienne being the bleeding star thats original, it could all be possible and it sounds alot more reasonable than most of the brienne and jaimie theorys out atm.

i agree that jaimie is more of a warrior than jon but if grrm chose jon to be the "warrior" it would still be plausable .

Although one thing i still dont agree with is that thoros is a more powerful priest than all the others we have seen, i think thoros was sent to the king not because he was more powerful than the others but simply because he was more able to convince a man like robert to follow the red gods.

At the begining of the series we hear about how thoros is always drinking with robert and of his prowess in the tourneys with his flaming sword, i think they knew rob would take a liking to him and thats why they sent him.

wasnt moqorro sent to dany to make her follow the red gods? doesnt the "red priest leader" think she is AA? wouldnt they send their most powerful priest to convince AA?

dont you think the BWB follow the red god because they followed beric and beric chose the red god?

id like to read your post on thoros too if you dont mind posting a link once youve put it up?

[brut]

i understand your theory more now and i like the idea of brienne being the bleeding star thats original, it could all be possible and it sounds alot more reasonable than most of the brienne and jaimie theorys out atm.

i agree that jaimie is more of a warrior than jon but if grrm chose jon to be the "warrior" it would still be plausable .

Although one thing i still dont agree with is that thoros is a more powerful priest than all the others we have seen, i think thoros was sent to the king not because he was more powerful than the others but simply because he was more able to convince a man like robert to follow the red gods.

At the begining of the series we hear about how thoros is always drinking with robert and of his prowess in the tourneys with his flaming sword, i think they knew rob would take a liking to him and thats why they sent him.

wasnt moqorro sent to dany to make her follow the red gods? doesnt the "red priest leader" think she is AA? wouldnt they send their most powerful priest to convince AA?

dont you think the BWB follow the red god because they followed beric and beric chose the red god?

id like to read your post on thoros too if you dont mind posting a link once youve put it up?

One correction. Thoros was not sent to convert Robert Baratheron. He was sent to convert Mad King due to the latter's fascination with fire. So, since the assumption of the Red lot was that Mad King loves fire, they would send someone who is highly proficient with the fire magic, and not someone who drinks like a fish :)

So, essentially, Thoros was at the King's Landing way before Baratheon rebelled. He remained there after the fall of Targs, serving King Robert now, and waiting for the perfect moment to initiate red agenda. Such moment came with the BwB.

The members of BwB converted to red religion precisely because of Thoros' powers. This is what he is saying:

"We are brothers here,” Thoros of Myr declared. “Holy brothers, sworn to the realm, to our god, and to each other.”

The initial company sent out by Ned to execute the Mountain consisted of 120 men. Out of those, approximately 10 were recruited by each of the appointed lord. So, Beric's own sworn soldiers are very limited in number. And very few of those remaining in the Brotherhood now, as more than 80 are already dead. This is confirmed by Beric himself:

"When we left King's Landing we were men of Winterfell and men of Darry and men of Blackhaven, Mallery men and Wylde men. We were knights and squires and men-at-arms, lords and commoners, bound together only by our purpose." The voice came from the man seated amongst the weirwood roots halfway up the wall. "Six score of us set out to bring the king's justice to your brother." The speaker was descending the tangle of steps toward the floor. "Six score brave men and true, led by a fool in a starry cloak." A scarecrow of a man, he wore a ragged black cloak speckled with stars and an iron breastplate dented by a hundred battles. A thicket of red-gold hair hid most of his face, save for a bald spot above his left ear where his head had been smashed in. "More than eighty of our company are dead now, but others have taken up the swords that fell from their hands."

Well, if the question is "Where would the most powerfull priest be sent?", I assume it has to be checked against the timeline. If Thoros were already sent to the KL during Mad King times, it means that the strongest priest is already acting in Westeros. So, whoever made a decision to send another red priest to Dany, must have done so based on what was left for him to command. Effectively, if Moqorro were sort of second best, then he ended up travelling to Dany. Mel seems to have travelled to Stannis on her own will follownig certain conflict with her own red brotherhood. So, we may not draw conclusions on her competitivenes from the fact of how Red priests are assigned their tasks. Though, it must be stated, that from Mel's own POV it seems that her fire magic rather relies on utilities (blood, powders, flasks, general stuff that she hides in the coffer), and not prayer, or exceptional magical strength. Contrary to this, neither Thoros, nor Moqorro seem to have any "helpful" tricks to assist them with magic.

If one were to "grade" the performce of three priests known to us, well, Thoros gets 10 for ressing people through prayer. Moqorro gets 8.5 for restoring body parts, and Mel gets 5 for temporarily birthing Stan's shadow.

If we go back on topic. Notice how Beric is wearring the starry black cloak. We may yet see it in action... :)