Mormont'sRaven Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Why the hell did Tyrion tell Jamie that he killed Joffrey when he didn't?I understand he was mad about Tysha but now Jamie won't <3 Tyrion anymore because he thinks that he killed his son!And another question. Was it the Queen of Thorns who killed Joff or was it the Red Viper because I seem to remember it being hinted in a Tyrion chapter that it was the Red Viper but in another chapter that it was the Queen of Thorns with an amethyst from Sansa's hairnet? And how can you poison someone with an amethyst? Did he choke on it? They didn't find anything in his throat, after all?Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Seemed like he was just bitter about Tysha. I also think at that point he just didn't care anymore. Littlefinger basically said he is the one who set up Joff to be poisoned. He heavily hinted at Lady Olenna the queen of thorns being the actual poisoner, but we don't know for sure. And if the amethyst was the poisoned item, it was either not a real amethyst but rather made of something to look like an amethyst, or it had poison underneath it. Although why they would go through the trouble of that, idk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vjott Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Why the hell did Tyrion tell Jamie that he killed Joffrey when he didn't?I understand he was mad about Tysha but now Jamie won't <3 Tyrion anymore because he thinks that he killed his son!And another question.Was it the Queen of Thorns who killed Joff or was it the Red Viper because I seem to remember it being hinted in a Tyrion chapter that it was the Red Viper but in another chapter that it was the Queen of Thorns with an amethyst from Sansa's hairnet? And how can you poison someone with an amethyst? Did he choke on it? They didn't find anything in his throat, after all?Thanks!Firstly, Jaime never really cared that much for Joffery. At some point he says (to himself): what was Joffery to him? Just some seed in Cersei's c*nt. (paraphrase). Throughout his chapters after Joffery's death he affirms (repeatedly) that Joffery meant nothing to him beyond the mere fact that he was his blood.I think it was made clear by Petyr (Littlefinger) that it was the Queen of Thorns who adjusted Sansa's hair net and loosed one of the stones into Joffery's cup. It was not an amethyst but a rare poison called the Tears of Lys. The Red Viper would never resort to poisoning someone in their food. Remember: it is viewed as the weapon of women and eunuchs. He does add venom to his spear but that is entirely different as he uses the weapon in direct combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 The only revenge he had left to give. He assumes this is the last time he will ever see Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliewankanobe Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Is "Olenna" a nudge/nod to Oleander? Martin likes poisonous flowers. (Tansy, for instance.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LampreyPie Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Is "Olenna" a nudge/nod to Oleander? Martin likes poisonous flowers. (Tansy, for instance.)Ahhh, maybe! GRRM is not only apparently big on poisonous flowers but he says he is big on naming characters after real life people/things (there's apparently a Lharys, Kurleket and Mohor (Three Stooges) in AGoT, not that I remember coming across them). But he refuses to reveal which characters and what they're named after.To the OP:I think Tyrion just assumed that Jaime would be hurt by thinking he killed Joffrey. (In reality, as other posters alluded to, Jaime couldn't care less about Joffrey, and flat-out believes he deserved to die--which by the way I found weird, since he wasn't in KL to witness Joffrey's worst behaviour, but oh well. Maybe he was just that horrible of a child.) Tyrion has forsaken his entire family now and clearly isn't in a great headspace. I don't think Tyrion should have reacted that way to Jaime's confession personally, but I can kind of understand it at the same time.And yes, it was definitely Lady Olenna in the throne room with the Tears of Lys. I'd guess her motive is that she knew Joffrey was a cruel little weiner and didn't want Margaery married to him, but still wanted her to be queen. Littlefinger made sure she heard some horror stories about Joffrey's cruelty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pope Killdragon Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Tyrion was bitter and made a rash decision. Lady Oleena killed Joffrey, the "amethysts" contained or were a form of the Tears of Lyss(?). The poison that killed Maester what's his name at the beginning of Clash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
your grace Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Ahhh, maybe! GRRM is not only apparently big on poisonous flowers but he says he is big on naming characters after real life people/things (there's apparently a Lharys, Kurleket and Mohor (Three Stooges) in AGoT, not that I remember coming across them). But he refuses to reveal which characters and what they're named after.To the OP:I think Tyrion just assumed that Jaime would be hurt by thinking he killed Joffrey. (In reality, as other posters alluded to, Jaime couldn't care less about Joffrey, and flat-out believes he deserved to die--which by the way I found weird, since he wasn't in KL to witness Joffrey's worst behaviour, but oh well. Maybe he was just that horrible of a child.) Tyrion has forsaken his entire family now and clearly isn't in a great headspace. I don't think Tyrion should have reacted that way to Jaime's confession personally, but I can kind of understand it at the same time.And yes, it was definitely Lady Olenna in the throne room with the Tears of Lys. I'd guess her motive is that she knew Joffrey was a cruel little weiner and didn't want Margaery married to him, but still wanted her to be queen. Littlefinger made sure she heard some horror stories about Joffrey's cruelty.jaime was made robb's captive because of joff's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser_Willem Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Tyrion was bitter and made a rash decision. Lady Oleena killed Joffrey, the "amethysts" contained or were a form of the Tears of Lyss(?). The poison that killed Maester what's his name at the beginning of Clash.His name is Cressen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Dear old Cressen... The only POV (edit) prologue character I really cared for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
your grace Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Dear old Cressen... The only POV character I really cared for.wtf?? jon, ned, arya, tyrion, davos, jaime....are you serious right now? i would love for you to explain this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 wtf?? jon, ned, arya, tyrion, davos, jaime....are you serious right now? i would love for you to explain this.Haha my bad. I meant Prologue, not just POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Hghar Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Tyrion was bitter and made a rash decision. Lady Oleena killed Joffrey, the "amethysts" contained or were a form of the Tears of Lyss(?). The poison that killed Maester what's his name at the beginning of Clash.To be specific, it wasn't the Tears of Lys that was used on Maester Cressen and Joffrey, but a poison simply called The Strangler, which makes the windpike cramp up and suffocates the victim. The Tears of Lys causes a sickness to the bowels and the belly (according to A Wiki of Ice and Fire), and was the poison that killed Jon Arryn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser_Willem Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Haha my bad. I meant Prologue, not just POV.I cared for Will,the Night's Watch guy of the first prologue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I cared for Will,the Night's Watch guy of the first prologue.I didn't care for Will. I feared for him as I would any man in the situation. But there was nothing that made me personally feel for Will, as I did Cressen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
your grace Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I didn't care for Will. I feared for him as I would any man in the situation. But there was nothing that made me personally feel for Will, as I did Cressen.royce was being a moron...once you know the others are back you haul ass to the wall to let the world know. gared* could have gone into hiding or whatever. instead he decided to bring news of the others returning when he knew it meant his death. to me he's even with cressen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 royce was being a moron...once you know the others are back you haul ass to the wall to let the world know. will could have gone into hiding or whatever. instead he decided to bring news of the others returning when he knew it meant his death. to me he's even with cressen.Have you read the book, or just watched the show? Because they differ in many instances. Will was killed by wight-Royce. Gared (the non-POV) ran South, fleeing the Others much like Osha and her gang. He was a deserter and never told anybody until his head was ready to be struck off.Plus, nobody knew the Others were back until they showed up. To Royce, Will was being an idiot or the cold was messing with his head, because clearly the bodies Will "saw" were not there. He would not immediately assume "Bodies gone? The Others from thousands of years ago that may just be made up are back!" He fought the Others bravely, and died and was brought back as a wight. He was overconfident and a bit arrogant, but them dying was certainly not his fault. They were outmatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
your grace Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Have you read the book, or just watched the show? Because they differ in many instances. Will was killed by wight-Royce. Gared (the non-POV) ran South, fleeing the Others much like Osha and her gang. He was a deserter and never told anybody until his head was ready to be struck off.Plus, nobody knew the Others were back until they showed up. To Royce, Will was being an idiot or the cold was messing with his head, because clearly the bodies Will "saw" were not there. He would not immediately assume "Bodies gone? The Others from thousands of years ago that may just be made up are back!" He fought the Others bravely, and died and was brought back as a wight. He was overconfident and a bit arrogant, but them dying was certainly not his fault. They were outmatched.yea i got the names mixed up thanks for clearing that upare you saying gared actually was trying to hide but got caught and was sent to winterfell? i was under the impression he was headed there the whole time. if he didnt wanna get caught couldnt he just ditch is cloak and not say 'yea i desereted the nights watch'?you may be right about not knowing it was the others until it was too late, i havent read got since early fall semester so i'll have to start rereading when i get it back. i did watch the series first, so the whole time i was reading the prologue i was thinking GTFO the others are coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7V3N Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 yea i got the names mixed up thanks for clearing that upare you saying gared actually was trying to hide but got caught and was sent to winterfell? i was under the impression he was headed there the whole time. if he didnt wanna get caught couldnt he just ditch is cloak and not say 'yea i desereted the nights watch'?you may be right about not knowing it was the others until it was too late, i havent read got since early fall semester so i'll have to start rereading when i get it back. i did watch the series first, so the whole time i was reading the prologue i was thinking GTFO the others are coming.No, Gared was moving South to run from the Others. Not hide, but just run until the he was out of the Others' reach. He got caught by Winterfell men. At least that was my interpretation--that he was caught by Winterfell men as a deserter running from the Wall (and North of that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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